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Sat Jul 7, 2012, 08:16 PM

Why can't women go topless like men do?

I know this OP will get some,"Huhuhuhuhuhuh that's okay with me," but I. serious.

I was trailrunning today in 100-degree heat, and a young couple in their twenties hiked by me the opposite way. He had his shirt off in the horrible heat, but she of course didn't. Because it's illegal. Because it's not socially allowed. But why? How is that fair? I wouldn't want to be topless running, of course, but how about why I was hiking? Or at the beach, or lounging on my front porch. It's especially illogical when there are plenty of men walking around shirtless who have a hell of a lot bigger breasts than I do. Why don't the so-called "moobs" have to covered?

What is the reason why it's like this? Is it because breasts are sexual, and men can't control themselves and would molest women? That is insulting to not only women and the natural function of breasts, but also to men. It's akin, imo, to one of the main reasons used to keep women from military combat roles: the men would go mad with lust with women so close, and even with bullets flying and bombs exploding, would have to rape their fellow soldiers.

I remember being a little girl, six or seven, and not being allowed to run around without a top on at the beach. Think about that, and think about how it's still like that. So, does this mean every single male wants to rape an eight-year=old girl playing without a shirt on??? WHEN SHE DOESN'T EVEN HAVE BREASTS YET?

Have you ever been someplace where topless beaches are common? Not a big deal, is it? Except for rude tourists. If it was a common thing, the huge, huge majority wouldn't even see it anymore.

And, lastly, how is this not discrimination under the law? It is.

It is discriminatory and ridiculous. A women -- and young girl -- should be able to go hiking, sunbathe, mow the grass without a shirt on if she wants. If she cannot, then why should anyone be allowed to go topless?

I am being totally serious, I'm not being snarky or silly.

63 replies, 19451 views

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Arrow 63 replies Author Time Post
Reply Why can't women go topless like men do? (Original post)
obamanut2012 Jul 2012 OP
PoliticAverse Jul 2012 #1
obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #4
PoliticAverse Jul 2012 #7
obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #9
Kalidurga Jul 2012 #2
obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #5
Kalidurga Jul 2012 #14
Gormy Cuss Jul 2012 #20
obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #22
LadyHawkAZ Jul 2012 #3
obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #6
Fantastic Anarchist Jul 2012 #8
PoliticAverse Jul 2012 #10
Skittles Jul 2012 #11
jonthebru Jul 2012 #32
Jackpine Radical Jul 2012 #15
PoliticAverse Jul 2012 #16
shraby Jul 2012 #38
jonthebru Jul 2012 #31
eShirl Jul 2012 #33
LadyHawkAZ Jul 2012 #40
Downwinder Jul 2012 #12
obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #23
Downwinder Jul 2012 #26
obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #27
Paul Rapoport Jul 2012 #50
leftyohiolib Jul 2012 #52
wandy Jul 2012 #13
obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #24
man4allcats Jul 2012 #58
rateyes Jul 2012 #17
Plucketeer Jul 2012 #18
obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #28
handmade34 Jul 2012 #19
obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #25
progressoid Jul 2012 #39
obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #43
La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2012 #21
Nay Jul 2012 #29
riverbendviewgal Jul 2012 #30
liberal N proud Jul 2012 #34
jaysunb Jul 2012 #35
4lbs Jul 2012 #36
LadyHawkAZ Jul 2012 #42
obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #44
eallen Jul 2012 #37
Mosaic Jul 2012 #47
Warren DeMontague Jul 2012 #41
Mosaic Jul 2012 #45
obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #48
Paul Rapoport Jul 2012 #46
obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #49
polemic_realism Jul 2012 #51
obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #53
Gormy Cuss Jul 2012 #60
CrispyQ Jul 2012 #54
obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #57
Starry Messenger Jul 2012 #55
obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #56
Zorra Jul 2012 #59
fallsapart83 Jul 2012 #61
One_Life_To_Give Jul 2012 #62
libodem Jul 2012 #63

Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 08:18 PM

1. Since a 1992 New York court decision it has been legal for women to go topless in the state of NY.

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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #1)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 08:23 PM

4. I did not know that -- interesting

Okay, questions: the same places as a male could?

And, a question, not to you specifically: has anyone who lives in New York ever see women without shirts? And if nit, will that change?

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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #7)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 08:39 PM

9. Thanks for the info!

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 08:22 PM

2. I have pondered the question myself...

it isn't fair. Making women wear sports bras isn't quite as bad as the burka, but the intent is rather the same.

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Response to Kalidurga (Reply #2)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 08:24 PM

5. At my gym, women cannot work out with just a sports bra

Even though it covers way more than a bathing suit top. Men can go topless everywhere but on weight equipment.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #5)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 09:01 PM

14. That's crazy

someone should open up a topless gym. Or a nude gym even, though that might be kinda gross.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #5)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 09:52 PM

20. That's insane. Sports bras not only cover more, they keep the breasts from bouncing as much

and thus should be approved by those who are afraid of the all-powerful boobies.

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Response to Gormy Cuss (Reply #20)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 09:58 PM

22. Some of us have complained

I think it's beyond stupid.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 08:23 PM

3. I have never seen the point of this

but then I don't see the point of a lot of things. I'm sure it's all about sexualization as you say- because we all know that covering 'em up works so well to prevent assaults.

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Response to LadyHawkAZ (Reply #3)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 08:25 PM

6. Exactly!

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 08:33 PM

8. Why have clothes at all?

I'm not being snarky. Except for keeping warm in Winter, why have clothes?

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Response to Fantastic Anarchist (Reply #8)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 08:43 PM

10. Consideration for other people ?

Well that's why I wear clothes anyway....

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Response to Fantastic Anarchist (Reply #8)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 08:49 PM

11. most people I do not want to see naked

seriously

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Response to Skittles (Reply #11)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 10:26 PM

32. If it were the "social norm" then we would be conditioned so it would make no difference.

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Response to Fantastic Anarchist (Reply #8)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 09:06 PM

15. Pockets.

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Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #15)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 09:26 PM

16. I guess that's why marsupials don't need clothes.... n/t

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Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #15)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 11:57 PM

38. LOL! That's what I would have said but you said it so much better.

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Response to Fantastic Anarchist (Reply #8)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 10:24 PM

31. The Sun.

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Response to Fantastic Anarchist (Reply #8)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 10:28 PM

33. to keep anus-prints off the bus seat next to you

I'd have to carry hand-wipes with me everywhere, like Monk

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Response to Fantastic Anarchist (Reply #8)

Sun Jul 8, 2012, 01:22 AM

40. Hygiene/public health hazards

Certain areas of both genders tend to...leak.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 08:50 PM

12. They can, why don't they?

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Response to Downwinder (Reply #12)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 10:00 PM

23. They can't most places -- you'd get arrested

It's why there are breastfeeding-specific laws to allow for exposure of breasts.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #23)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 10:04 PM

26. The Atty. downstairs says that there is no way they can make a charge stick.


My daughter just had a double Mastectomy. Does she have to wear a shirt?

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Response to Downwinder (Reply #26)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 10:05 PM

27. hmmmmm

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #23)

Sun Jul 8, 2012, 10:53 AM

50. Breastfeeding laws

Most supposedly breastfeeding-friendly laws and cases in the USA are actually negative. They imply very clearly or even may state that women's breasts are indecent, obscene, disorderly, or in other ways harmful, except for breastfeeding. So The Man deigns to allow women to breastfeed, under conditions that he specifies, which often and deliberately make breastfeeding difficult and consequently harm children and women both.

Women are secondary humans and therefore have to be controlled more. They're dangerous and immoral if they're not controlled by men or are allowed ownership of their own bodies.

That may be an exaggeration, but not much of one, and historically that's where much of this comes from.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #23)

Sun Jul 8, 2012, 11:43 AM

52. but they can in some places and still they dont . so the issue isnt with laws

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 08:55 PM

13. I can agree with you. After a while it would be no big deal......

As you said; "If it was a common thing, the huge, huge majority wouldn't even see it anymore".
I am being honest here...

But just please let me know in advance before you all are going to do it. Just so I can invest in some car insurance company's.
I suspect they will raising preamiums hand over fist for those first few weeks.

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Response to wandy (Reply #13)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 10:00 PM

24. lol

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Response to wandy (Reply #13)

Sun Jul 8, 2012, 12:23 PM

58. I'm sure you're right.

I expect my own car would be in the body shop within a day or two.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 09:39 PM

17. If God had wanted women to go around half naked

they would have been born with no clothes on!

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 09:42 PM

18. It's religion

Religious mores are what keep women's breasts covered. Heck, look at all the hooplah over breast feeding! The non-christianized folks in tropical climates - their females go topless and rape or molestation isn't problematical for them. It's religious malarky AND then there's the fact that so MUCH focus is placed on breasts as sexual items (in our culture) - which they're really not,

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Response to Plucketeer (Reply #18)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 10:06 PM

28. Good post

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Response to handmade34 (Reply #19)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 10:03 PM

25. That is interesting

Why can't other breast cancer survivors swim topless?

And, why can men swim topless but women can't is the next logical step in this.

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Response to handmade34 (Reply #19)

Sun Jul 8, 2012, 01:12 AM

39. Wow,

there are some really hateful comments there.

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Response to progressoid (Reply #39)

Sun Jul 8, 2012, 09:10 AM

43. Seriously

And Seattle, too.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 09:55 PM

21. legally its possibly, socially not so much

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 10:21 PM

29. I'm 61 years old, and when I was a child in Florida, no young girl under school age ever had to wear

a top at the beach or in her yard, etc. I have tons of pix of me running around with just shorts on. Now, if we were going somewhere (store, restaurant, downtown, etc.) I was put in a dress or a top and pants, but at home or on the beach, nah.

This was 55 years ago -- that's how bad all this crap has gotten in such a short time.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 10:24 PM

30. It is legal to go topless in Ontario

but I have only seen it once in a Lake Huron town and the lady did not have attractive breasts.

In Toronto on the islands there is a nude beach...everyone goes topless and bottomless.

I have gone topless in my backyard which did not have nearby neighbors.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 10:31 PM

34. Because us guys would get really stupid!

Car crashes would skyrocket and personal injury would be high due to men running into things. Men can't handle the visual access to the female chest in public.


BTW: I don't think,men should go topless unless swimming. Just a male point of view.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 10:42 PM

35. I'm all for it !

Seriously, it may help ease some of the puritanical repression that pervades America.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 11:03 PM

36. Remember when the country went all into a tizzy after seeing Janet Jackson's nipple for 3 seconds?

I once asked this OP questiom of my fellow male friends, intentionally setting them up.

"Hey, dudes, wouldn't it be cool if women were allowed to go around shirtless/topless like us guys without being in trouble?"

Their response was what you could expect from guys in their 20s.

"Hell yeah, that would be freaking awesome! There are some women I wouldn't mind seeing topless! Har Har Har!"

Then.... the punch.

"Cool! That means your sister and/or mom can go around topless. Imagine that!"

Crickets...

Suddenly they weren't so keen on the idea.

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Response to 4lbs (Reply #36)

Sun Jul 8, 2012, 05:23 AM

42. I mentioned sexualization in my earlier post

it should probably be amended to "sexualization and property issues"- certain types of men tend to not want "their" women showing it off. "OPP" is usually a different story.

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Response to LadyHawkAZ (Reply #42)

Sun Jul 8, 2012, 09:11 AM

44. Both of you make very good points

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 11:25 PM

37. It's legal in Texas. Believe it or not.


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Response to eallen (Reply #37)

Sun Jul 8, 2012, 10:16 AM

47. I know it's legal in Austin

If you have a link about the rest of Texas, please post it here.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Sun Jul 8, 2012, 03:41 AM

41. I think it depends on the state. Nt

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Sun Jul 8, 2012, 09:20 AM

45. You get used to seeing breasts

At a nude beach in Florida, you could see hundreds of women topless. You know what happens after about 5 minutes, even to a single man? It has no sexual effect anymore. I know it sounds unbelievable but it's true. Nudism is a wonderful lifestyle that in its pure form involves no titillation or sex at all, it's supposed to be family friendly. Most beaches in Europe are topless, when I went to France I casually walked by beautiful women laying topless with not a care in the world. I wish we could be as advanced as they are. We must let go of hangups brought by gnostics (aka puritans) that left Britain because they could not get along religiously with their more sane countrymen back in the 1600's. Now it's 2012, we must evolve and learn to enjoy this short life.

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Response to Mosaic (Reply #45)

Sun Jul 8, 2012, 10:40 AM

48. I know you're right

I've been to topless beaches myself, and you really do just ignore it after a while.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Sun Jul 8, 2012, 10:02 AM

46. The Topfree Question

Thank you for your pertinent observations. There are 15 years of information about this on the TERA website, which, although hosted in Canada, concerns itself with the USA mostly.

Many commenters say things, even in good faith, that are incorrect, especially about the legal issues. There's even one website that posts legal information about women's topfreedom that's incomplete and misleading and should not be heeded. For various reasons, TERA does not post a guide to lawfulness of topfree women, although we do answer questions about it.

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Response to Paul Rapoport (Reply #46)

Sun Jul 8, 2012, 10:44 AM

49. Thank you for the info!

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Sun Jul 8, 2012, 11:35 AM

51. Figure Drawing

I've done a lot of it, and I distinctly remember that first day. The model was attractive, and the excitement/novelty of her complete nudity lasted for all of about one minute. Then focus on the drawing to be done completely washed it away. We could all get over it very quickly if it were normalized, and I would say that the end of this discrimination is long overdue...

Puritanical chains for everyone, including those that don't believe in "God", are preposterous...

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Response to polemic_realism (Reply #51)

Sun Jul 8, 2012, 11:50 AM

53. Another good post

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Response to polemic_realism (Reply #51)

Sun Jul 8, 2012, 07:56 PM

60. I have a friend who was a life model in a state university's art classes

until the school stopped life modeling because of complaints from students. This was in a conservative area, naturally.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Sun Jul 8, 2012, 11:52 AM

54. Last week the temp was in the upper 90s/low 100s.

We don't have air or a swamp cooler -just an oscillating fan & a spray bottle of cold water to keep cool. I finally said fuck it & took my shirt off. Even in my own home, with just me & the dog, I was very self conscious for quite a while! Now I'm so used to it I hope I don't forget to put my shirt back on when I step out to intercept my UPS man!

Most of it is religious based. And it's just getting worse as the media give the wackos an unlimited microphone to spout their perversion of what's considered immoral (bare breasts, contraception, homosexuality, & the list goes on & on) vs. what is really immoral (drone wars, economic injustice, lack of empathy).

Good post. Enjoying the comments.

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #54)

Sun Jul 8, 2012, 12:19 PM

57. I was just thinking about your post

I do the same thing, when I'm really hot after running or whatever, and it always feel weird the first minute or two, then it doesn't.

It is really... frustrating, isn't it?

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Sun Jul 8, 2012, 12:10 PM

55. That happened to me when I was a young girl.

I haven't thought of that memory in years. I was eight too, and flat as a boy. It's not just about boobs then. It's policing women's bodies.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Sun Jul 8, 2012, 12:17 PM

56. It's legal in MY state, and I didn't even know it until five minutes ago

Thanks to Starry Messenger for sending me the info and a link.

I am betting good money that if a woman around topless around most towns here, all hell would break loose, and the cops would be called, and I bet the cops would either try to force the women to put a shirt on OR even cite her. I mean, women still get cites for BREASTFEEDING.

This link is about a year old, but is VERY interesting:

http://gotopless.org/news.php?extend.49

<snip>

"In American, we seem to have come to terms with a more sectioned type of "Burqa" which even our most conservative americans are finding "decent". However, Taliban men would find outrageous the attire that conservative American women find decent and proper.

One can see that it is simply a matter of programming and upbringing. In Western Europe, after 40 years of women going topless on the beach, no one even looks at topless women sunbathing anymore.

Men are no longer any sexual obsession over their breasts because it has become a normal sight. It is difficult for many Americans to imagine this in our society but that is how the human brain works. Repression brings obsession. When the repression is gone, the obsession goes away too.

That is a good thing because repression can also beget violence and the most repressed society are indeed the most violent. So when Maitreya Rael founded GoTopless.org he had women's rights in mind but also the healing of a very troubled humanity.

Free your breasts, free your mind women and men of Asheville... for Humankind.

Nadine Gary, president GoTopless.org"

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Sun Jul 8, 2012, 06:33 PM

59. I usually live at a tropical

nude beach for most of the winter. Going topless is normal.



This is my extended family.



Women go topless. Men go topless. It's just no big deal. We teach our children at a young age that bodies are natural, so they do not grow up with any bizarre misconceptions about human bodies and sex.

The reason we are forbidden by law and custom to have our breasts "exposed" (lol!!!) in public is because twisted, unnatural religious cults have influenced and repressed American society ever since Columbus first brought them here from Europe, right along with the common cold and the love of gold.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Sun Jul 8, 2012, 08:39 PM

61. You are absolutely right

It's definitely discrimination! I'm glad I live in NY, where I can do it. I've gotten everything from people calling the police, and hecklers halfway down the beach ("Let me suck on your titties!" etc) to women coming up saying they wish they were as brave as I was. There was one time I was at the beach in the water, and a family had floated their way down to me. I was chatting with the mom but getting ready to leave. I was like, "Oh boy, she probably thought it was a strapless swimsuit, and now she's gonna freak out when I get out of the water." But she actually apologized to me because of her young daughter staring! It was kind of refreshing to not have her YELL at me!

The Rochester Topfree Seven anniversary 5 years ago was the first time I went shirtless in public, and I was kinda nervous at first, but honestly-like someone else here mentioned-after a little bit, you really don't notice it at all! Same thing when I went to a nudist place for the first time. It's actually quite comfortable and liberating (and no hecklers at the nudist place!)

One thing I really hate is when a woman goes topless, she's often judged by her body, but few guys (that I've seen, anyway) have this happen to them. Like when Moira Johnston (forgive me if I got the last name wrong) went shirtless in NYC, a lot of comments on those articles were things like, "The only thing offensive is that belly of hers." First off, I'd love to have a body like that again. Secondly, if they are going to say things like that, then they better be sure that the look like Chippendale dancers or something before THEY go shirtless!

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Tue Jul 10, 2012, 09:59 AM

62. FYI Whan a Legally male Transwoman goes topless in Delaware

We get national news.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/05/transgender-men-go-toples_n_601745.html

So why could I have a pair of DD's worthy of some porn star and be legal everywhere?

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Tue Jul 10, 2012, 01:37 PM

63. If we all went around like that

It would be so commonplace that no one would notice anymore. As it is I was driving the other day and saw a woman walking wearing the smallest black bikini. She was with a guy, walking a dog. I admit to a double take to see if what I saw, I had really seen. I missed my opportunity to make a safety right. We all could get used to it but it might be distracting until we all did.

If I saw a random female, walking around downtown sans top, my first impulse would be to consider some mental impairment. I would be concerned for her safety from a predator and from legal consequences.

Am I wrong for my personal modesty? I personally would not want to be publicly exposed because the girls are no longer particularly perky or cute. I wouldn't want to be exposed to critical comments about how appropriate it is to show something that is stretched and sagging from breast feeding three babies?

You do what you want. I just can't. I hate the dressing room at the gym. I hate the wet swim suit and showering in a public facility. I don't even really like that one of my best friends is obese and uninhibited nudist. I wish I didn't care what other people think or if I'm offending anyone. I'll be the friend in a swim suit when everyone one else skinny dips.

Hope you don't ban me from the group for being different. I love you for being free and not ashamed. I'll try harder.

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