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Thu Aug 9, 2012, 11:18 AM

Sexists thrive on DU

(Before we get started, go here and also here to see examples of the sexism in question.)

More than likely, we've all seen it, the unflattering picture of Ann Coulter beside an equally unflattering picture of an Afghan Hound, running full tilt toward the photographer, mouth gaping, teeth showing, tongue lolling...

Well, this last time, I took action, as we can here on DU:

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

YOUR COMMENTS:

Must we repeatedly view this sexist post about Ann Coulter's looks? Is this germane? Or, does this fit in the 'boys will be boys' category of "can't you take a joke"? Sexism is bigoted hate speech and should be unacceptable in DU.


Here are the results:

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Thu Aug 9, 2012, 10:27 AM, and voted 1-5 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I don't know what the alerter is thinking, but THIS IS NOT SEXIST!
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: over the top.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Can't stand the heat? Get out of the kitchen.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: alerter should find a better hobby
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given

Thank you.


I wonder if this warrants a new acronym: "SIOKIYAD" (Sexism Is OK If You're A Democrat)?

21 replies, 4002 views

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Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 21 replies Author Time Post
Reply Sexists thrive on DU (Original post)
chervilant Aug 2012 OP
elleng Aug 2012 #1
chervilant Aug 2012 #2
Warpy Aug 2012 #8
chervilant Aug 2012 #9
lumberjack_jeff Aug 2012 #3
pnwmom Aug 2012 #4
chervilant Aug 2012 #6
pnwmom Aug 2012 #10
chervilant Aug 2012 #12
pennylane100 Aug 2012 #5
chervilant Aug 2012 #7
pnwmom Aug 2012 #11
chervilant Aug 2012 #13
chervilant Aug 2012 #14
pennylane100 Aug 2012 #15
chervilant Aug 2012 #16
pnwmom Aug 2012 #17
chervilant Aug 2012 #18
pennylane100 Aug 2012 #19
niyad Aug 2012 #20
chervilant Aug 2012 #21

Response to chervilant (Original post)

Thu Aug 9, 2012, 11:30 AM

1. Sorry, I disagree;

I see no pattern here.
Ugly picture of coulter and afghan, both of which often appear in attractive pics. (I love afghans, and dislike coulter for what she SAYS, not for her appearance.)

And the examples you give are not DU, so what's the point?

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Response to elleng (Reply #1)

Thu Aug 9, 2012, 11:35 AM

2. The point is that

calling a woman a 'dog,' or likening women to dogs is historically a form of sexism.

And, I've seen that same comparison on other threads about Ann Coulter, here on DU. Why is this acceptable here?

Slam Coulter for her divisive politics, but acknowledge that you're promoting/accepting sexism if you persist in denigrating her by comparing her to a dog.

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Response to chervilant (Reply #2)

Thu Aug 9, 2012, 12:12 PM

8. You're in grave danger here

Maybe you don't remember the "Bush or Chimp?" posts of some years back. There is a great tradition of comparing our famous people to animals.

There is always a certain amount of silliness in politics. It breaks the tension and alleviates the boredom. I would strongly suggest this is the reason for the Coulter/Afghan hound juxtaposition, not some deeply ulterior misogynistic motive, and that you find something a little more important to get upset over. God knows there's plenty out there.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #8)

Thu Aug 9, 2012, 12:18 PM

9. Grave danger?

So, promoting sexism is just an example of "a certain amount of silliness in politics"?

I have been an advocate for survivors of relationship violence for over thirty years. I can assure you: this and all other forms of sexism remain a big issue, because these little instances of sexism are a fundamental underpinning of all relationship violence. Batterers find it much easier to assault or justify their verbal bullying when they objectify or belittle their partners.

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Response to chervilant (Original post)

Thu Aug 9, 2012, 11:37 AM

3. Ann Coulter is fair game. Criticizing her appearance may be juvenile...

... but it has lots of precedent.. About 1.4 million precedents.

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Response to chervilant (Original post)

Thu Aug 9, 2012, 11:37 AM

4. We post lots of ugly pictures of ugly people,

when we feel that the outside is a good representation of the inner ugliness.

I don't see this as a sexist issue.

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=donald+trump+hair&num=10&hl=en&biw=1095&bih=631&tbm=isch&tbnid=99NSyvCItevheM:&imgrefurl=http://glennobrien.com/%3Fp%3D821&docid=7raxTTKS4ZmN8M&imgurl=&w=266&h=320&ei=mtkjUNXLJcjAiwL7toAw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=759&vpy=282&dur=390&hovh=173&hovw=153&tx=106&ty=177&sig=113633391924352874636&page=2&tbnh=138&tbnw=129&start=22&ndsp=25&ved=1t:429,r:10,s:22,i:191

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #4)

Thu Aug 9, 2012, 11:49 AM

6. Did you look at the links?

So, you think it ISN'T sexist to post an unflattering picture of a woman next to an unflattering picture of a dog, and promote the meme that women are 'dogs'?

Did the photographer who posted the unflattering pic of Mr. Trump also post next to it an unflattering pic of a dog?

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Response to chervilant (Reply #6)

Thu Aug 9, 2012, 12:27 PM

10. I looked at your Limbaugh link and your Debbie Schulz link and then I stopped looking.

If there was a better link you should have made it more prominent.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #10)

Thu Aug 9, 2012, 12:49 PM

12. IMHO, the links

I provided illustrate conservatives' use of this gender stereotype, as well as the perceptions of sexism by those on the left decrying such behavior. I think you can find more examples with the google.

I have been an advocate for survivors of relationship violence for over thirty years. I can assure you: this and all other forms of sexism remain a big issue, because these little instances of sexism are a fundamental underpinning of all relationship violence. Batterers find it much easier to assault--or justify their verbal bullying--when they objectify or belittle their partners.

Again, I find it disheartening that so many women have grown inured to such derogatory messages--so much so that we become uncomfortable with the person who points out the sexism, rather than with the person who acts in a sexist manner.

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Response to chervilant (Original post)

Thu Aug 9, 2012, 11:46 AM

5. As a feminist, I have mixed feeling about this type of problem.

There is a tendency for some people, women included, to mention remarks about a women's physical attributes as part of their comments. I constantly rebuke my husband for including a remark about a women appearance (but he would never say anything derogatory) and I ask him why he has no made no such observations about any of the men on the program. I think it is is an ingrained habit that we need to be aware of.

However, I think that we all have been guilty of making comments about the appearance of the people we do not like. I always thought the pictures of George Bush with chimp like features were very creative. Newt Gingrich is a cartoonist dream, and an easy topic for everyone and poor Joan Rivers even makes fun of herself.

While making fun of peoples appearance is not the best kind of humor, I think it is aimed at both men and women here at DU so I am not sure if it is sexist. When it is aimed at anyone that has some serious physical problems, it is disgusting and should be censured. The fact that Ann Coulter is not that bad looking, and is such a obnoxious person, I would probably be OK with insulting her for any reason.

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Response to pennylane100 (Reply #5)

Thu Aug 9, 2012, 11:52 AM

7. As a feminist,

I grieve that so many women have grown inured to such derogatory messages--so much so that we become uncomfortable with the person who points out the sexism, rather than with the person who acts in a sexist manner.

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Response to chervilant (Reply #7)

Thu Aug 9, 2012, 12:30 PM

11. I think she looks as much like an Afghan

as Bush does a chimp. Did you object to those pictures, too?

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=george+bush+chimp&num=10&hl=en&biw=1095&bih=631&tbm=isch&tbnid=lOUfSF9XMOHlGM:&imgrefurl=http://www.democratic-republicans.us/english/launch-video-parts-three-and-four/attachment/george-bush-chimp&docid=dqmOgLKf17ucDM&imgurl=&w=400&h=271&ei=GuUjUJ-GCofhiwKg8YHYDA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=114&vpy=192&dur=423&hovh=112&hovw=166&tx=164&ty=96&sig=113633391924352874636&page=1&tbnh=111&tbnw=164&start=0&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:89

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #11)

Thu Aug 9, 2012, 12:55 PM

13. Actually,

I did about nine months of informal research on the internet because I have long suspected that the anonymity of the internet encourages or enables people to indulge in derisive, discourteous, sarcastic, and often vulgar discourse. I stopped when I saw multiple OP-EDs about that very subject.

I then considered creating a group (I thought we might call ourselves 'Grandparents for Civility in Public and Political Discourse,' but the acronym GCPPD just didn't resonate) to advocate for diplomacy on the internet.

At this point, I think I am tilting at windmills, but I still HOPE that we can learn to express our opinions and ideologies without sarcasm, derision and divisiveness.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #11)

Thu Aug 9, 2012, 12:57 PM

14. P. S. I STILL do not

understand how pointing out instances wherein men are likened to unflattering pics of animals makes instances wherein women are likened to unflattering pics of dogs less sexist...

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Response to chervilant (Reply #7)

Thu Aug 9, 2012, 01:16 PM

15. I have no problem with anyone pointing out what they see as derogatory or sexist remarks.

I have a problem when they expect me to agree with them if it does not violate my own personal code of conduct.

As for women growing inured to derogatory messages, I see the opposite as being true. Women were from the time of Eve, were always the subject of derision. It was the birth of feminism that shone the light on this particular subject. If you read about the acts of abuse that are committed to women in many patriarchal societies, many of the abuses are committed by women. They were raised to believe that such behavior was the norm. My own sweet mother was raised in a generation where there very different standards for women than for men. She explained to me that women covering their hair in church was done because uncovered women's hair was a distraction for the men (OK this was a very long time ago). When I suggested that maybe the men had the problem and they should be the ones to deal with it, I think I suggested blinkers like those horses used in racing. She just smiled, thinking that it was just me being me, but I did stop covering my head at a very early age and before most of the female congregation.

It is certainly true that as a society, the US has a long way to go to stamp out sexism. But I do see the community at DU as mostly free of sexism and it has to be really blatant to upset me. It would be hard for me to imagine any image of Ann Coulter, no matter how gross that I would find offensive.

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Response to pennylane100 (Reply #15)

Thu Aug 9, 2012, 01:22 PM

16. Well, I have tried to find where I posted

that you must agree with me, but I cannot. I am a firm believer in 'we can agree to disagree.' And, your post makes it obvious that you disagree with me.

I have done years of research on gender issues. I have done years of advocacy for survivors of relationship violence. I know from both personal and professional experience that the historically sexist 'woman as dog' meme is still prevalent, even here on DU.

Again, I grieve that so many women have grown inured to such derogatory messages--so much so that we become uncomfortable with the person who points out the sexism, rather than with the person who acts in a sexist manner.

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Response to chervilant (Reply #16)

Thu Aug 9, 2012, 01:29 PM

17. In general, I agree with you. However, I make an exception

for Ann Coulter, who is such an obnoxious sexist herself that she has said she doesn't think women should have the vote. None of the posters on DU would ever say anything remotely that sexist.

If she is a target of the sexism she's promoting, so be it.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #17)

Thu Aug 9, 2012, 01:37 PM

18. I agree that Coulter is a bully and a tyrant,

and I recognize that some might feel justified likening Ann Coulter to a dog. Is it wrong of me to hope that we can acknowledge how pitiably hateful is Ms. Coulter without being sexist about her?

(I suspected before I posted this thread that using this example, with such a hate-mongering, fear-mongering person like Coulter, would trip a few buttons--but I didn't expect to be derided for pointing out that sexism should have no place on DU.)

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Response to chervilant (Reply #18)

Thu Aug 9, 2012, 04:01 PM

19. well I think we will have to agree to disagree,

on some issues. I do agree that there is no room for sexism on DU and on that we agree but I also did not see where anyone in this thread acknowledged that sexism is acceptable on DU. While I cannot recall any blatantly sexist comments on this site, I have a really bad memory and I also may have missed such posts. But I do not believe that women are growing inured to sexism, as I see us being much more outspoken about it now than at any time in my quite long life.

You are correct in that you did not specifically ask that I agree with you on the matter and O agree that we must continue to address sexism when we see it, and it appears that in some instances, we see it differently.

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Response to chervilant (Original post)

Mon Aug 13, 2012, 12:18 AM

20. actually, I find those pics insulting to the poor dog.

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Response to niyad (Reply #20)

Wed Aug 15, 2012, 08:20 PM

21. Others have said the same.

It does not negate my original point.

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