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Thu Dec 27, 2012, 04:05 AM

Official petition for Obama to label ‘God Hates Fags’ Church as a hate group most popular ever

The petition for President Obama to class the Westboro Baptist Church, the home of the ‘God Hates Fags’ campaign as a hate group has been named the most popular ever on the White House’s ‘We The People’ website.

The church has outraged America by blaming the masacre at the Sandy Hook elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut on the state’s equal marriage policies.

The church that has picketed the funerals of US servicemen and women killed overseas announced that it would picket the funerals of the children killed at Sandy Hook elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut to worldwide outrage. The church blames the advances in LGBT rights for everything bad that happens to Americans- saying that disasters and deaths are punishments from God for gay equality.

...At the time of publication, 248,113 people had already signed the petition.

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2012/12/26/official-petition-for-obama-to-label-god-hates-fags-church-as-a-hate-group-most-popular-ever/

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17 replies, 1635 views

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Reply Official petition for Obama to label ‘God Hates Fags’ Church as a hate group most popular ever (Original post)
Fearless Dec 2012 OP
Systematic Chaos Dec 2012 #1
spicegal Dec 2012 #2
6502 Dec 2012 #3
Bluenorthwest Dec 2012 #5
Android3.14 Dec 2012 #4
William769 Dec 2012 #6
Fearless Dec 2012 #7
okasha Dec 2012 #8
Fearless Dec 2012 #9
Android3.14 Dec 2012 #10
Fearless Dec 2012 #11
Android3.14 Dec 2012 #12
Fearless Jan 2013 #13
Android3.14 Jan 2013 #15
Glaug-Eldare Jan 2013 #14
Fearless Jan 2013 #17
One_Life_To_Give Jan 2013 #16

Response to Fearless (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:10 AM

1. Why such a petition is even needed, I'll never know.

But for everyone's sake, I hope this petition will get the ball rolling. Shut that lawsuit-happy, disgusting family down.

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Response to Fearless (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:16 AM

2. They'r definitely a "hate group" by any reasonable definition, but I think making it official would

give them far more attention then they deserve. No doubt they'd wear it as a badge of honor. I think they should for the most part be ignored. When they show up at funerals, I like the idea of a fortress of people surrounding the funeral gathering, or better yet, one group of high school students sang songs, held hands, and met hate with love. It was quite powerful, made the WBC look very very small.

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Response to spicegal (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:44 AM

3. Actually, it will HELP!! Here's how...

Let them get all of the attention.

You're thinking that the attention will make them more popular.

You seem to forget that most people will attack something that has been conveniently labeled as exactly what it is. In this case: A HATE GROUP.

Without that label, people can still go on about babbling about 1st Amendment Rights and fence straddling or even joining in because it would technically all be LEGAL.

But you call it a HATE GROUP: Heck, the KKK is a HATE GROUP.
Nobody wants to be associated with a HATE GROUP.
Only the true haters would stick up for a HATE GROUP. "Everyone knows that!"

So, label them.
There will be defectors from the group.
Their own neighbors will out them at every turn to keep themselves from getting tarred and feathered by the larger society that is always GUNNING FOR HATE GROUPS.

This is perfect.
Tag 'em and bag 'em.

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Response to spicegal (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:48 AM

5. How can one both ignore them and also surround their protests with a 'fortress of people'?

Those who sang songs were also not ignoring the situation, they were taking action. Problem is, so very few groups of straight people have done so, and it took years and years before any of them did it the first time. Westboro was allowed to do as they please to gay people and it was only when they started going to soldier's funerals that action was finally, at long last taken.

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Response to Fearless (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:48 AM

4. The government does not publish a list of hate groups

The SPLC and the ADL do this. The FBI monitors hate groups, but does not publish a list of them.
Regarding your sig image, you probably already know this, but "Life Liberty...Happiness" is from the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution

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Response to Android3.14 (Reply #4)


Response to Android3.14 (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:30 PM

7. Your concern is duly noted. The FBI actually does keep a list of hate groups

As you've said. So I don't really understand why you're being contrary. That does fall under the category of the US government recognizing something as a hate group. The petition does not ask them to publish them in a list. Likewise, the fact that "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" first appears in the Declaration of Independence does not preclude the fact that I still have the Constitutional right to them.

Have a nice day,

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Response to Fearless (Reply #7)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 05:31 PM

8. Well, the body of the Constitution may not use the exact words, "life,

liberty and the pursuit of happiness, but I think they're well-covered in the amendments, especially the first 10, the 14th and 15th.

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Response to okasha (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:08 PM

9. Exactly

And any number of dozens of court precedents.

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Response to Fearless (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 10:45 PM

10. Words have meaning

And I would think it is obvious that LL&tPoH is not a constitutional guarantee (it being absent from the Constitution and all), but having it in the Declaration establishes it as a universal ideal for which a nation should strive.
The sig graphic, while having the honorable intent of promoting gay rights, would have better impact if it were factually correct.

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Response to Android3.14 (Reply #10)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 12:05 AM

11. It is factually correct.

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Response to Fearless (Reply #11)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 08:07 AM

12. Prove it

Some case law would be appropriate, since you will be unable to find any reference to LLatPoH in the Constitution.
It's bad enough that Republicans have to throw around huge piles of ignorance and misinformation to make themselves feel outraged, but in a world where there are so many reasons to support equal rights, do we really have to make crap up?

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Response to Android3.14 (Reply #12)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:27 AM

13. Amendment 5...

"nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

And on the 14th Amendment:

In Meyer v. Nebraska (1923), the Court stated that the "liberty" protected by the Due Process Clause

"ithout doubt...denotes not merely freedom from bodily restraint but also the right of the individual to contract, to engage in any of the common occupations of life, to acquire useful knowledge, to marry, establish a home and bring up children, to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience, and generally to enjoy those privileges long recognized at common law as essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution.


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You were saying something about proof?

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Response to Fearless (Reply #13)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 06:14 AM

15. I'll run with that

You win. I was wrong.
If you ignore the fact that LL&tPoH is directly covered in the Declaration of Independence by referencing a partial phrase from the Fifth amendment and a case addressing the 14th, then it is possible to show the Constitution protects the right to LL&tPoH.
It's overly convoluted, but it is there. Somehow I suspect that most people reading your sig will probably jump to the conclusion I came to - that you were well meaning but incorrect.
You might copy and paste your explanation to the .sig file. It'll make the head scratchers like myself walk away thinking you're .sig is overly wordy, rather than ignorant.

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Response to Fearless (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:53 AM

14. What exactly would this entail?

For one thing, I'm very leery of any action that attacks the content neutrality of demonstration law. WBC has an abhorrent message, sure, but setting the precedent that unpopular words should be made into illegal words, even without any threat or call to criminal acts, is dangerous to ALL people who would seek to change their government.

For another, this is EXACTLY the kind of resistance that sustains WBC. They exist for the purpose of goading governments into trying to stop them, and then winning big when those governments are inevitably unable to prove that they are complying with the 1st Amendment. If no government even tried to touch them, the money would dry up and they would be unable to continue this campaign. It is the desperation to "do something" that actually finances them.

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Response to Glaug-Eldare (Reply #14)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 02:49 PM

17. The significance of this occurrence

Is that that times are changing and the tides are turning. We are increasingly supported by the community at large and this is another bit of evidence of that.

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Response to Fearless (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 01:27 PM

16. Petitioning to put anyone on such a list isn't much different than voting on marriage

There are some things that are matters of Principal and should not be subject to popular opinion. WBC should be recognized as a Hate Group for what they Do and Say. Not because 50% + 1 vote that they are. IIRC the Constitution has something to say about Due Process?

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