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Wed Aug 1, 2012, 02:31 AM

My favorite TV show scene ever.

Granted, I never watch TV and haven't watched it for years, but on recommendation from some members of this Group, I rented all the Glee episodes that are out on DVD.

I'm now a hopeless Glee junkie, and this "truth through art" scene is a perfect example of why I became a Glee junkie ~



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Response to Zorra (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 03:07 AM

1. I love the scene but it's still painful to watch

For me it's painful to watch because it takes me back. Even after years of being out and not hiding it and having a supportive family, friends and work environment (yes, I'm very lucky now) that scene is still painful.

For me, both from Kurt and Finn's point of view it's painful. I grew up in the South and in the closet. I can understand Finn's reaction. He's not an out, proud gay guy and he could never have his non-Glee Club friends over to his house and let them see that flamboyant bedroom. The fact he's even moving in with Kurt would be such a major issue for him trying to continue being just a normal straight guy, captain of the football team. He's probably right on busting Kurt for being flirty and maybe being caught looking a little too long at him. So his paranoia about dressing in front of Kurt may not just be paranoia. I know I did my best to ogle the studs in the locker room in gym class and try not to get caught.

Of course Kurt is dealing with all the normal growing up stuff like being attracted to other people and wanting a relationship. So just like the straight guy who may look at a girl a little too long or be awkwardly flirty Kurt does the same thing - just with other guys. I love that Kurt's dad is so supportive. I never told my parents before I left the state and my dad died before I could be honest with him. I was too afraid of their reaction. So I lied and I made sure I showed up at the family farm with pictures of me from trips with friends and friend's weddings where I had women on my arm. I never said any of them were girlfriends but I never did anything to dispel the assumption.

Kurt is a brave person who lives who he is. But that's a lonely life for him at this point in the series. I think the Kurt character was really looking forward to having Finn as a brother and built-in male friend. I believe that character is really motivated to make a great bedroom for him and Finn to share. Only the best way he knows how is through his lens on life.

Maybe I'm over-analyzing. But I think it was a great scene that if you really look at it shows the conflicts we all have with "the gay" issue - whether we are straight or gay. They exist and are normal for our society and we need to learn to deal with them in a positive way. We don't need to hide them away and practice the "if I ignore it, it will go away" philosophy we love to practice.

Well enough of my arm-chair psychoanalysis.

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Response to dballance (Reply #1)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 10:53 AM

2. Good scene. Interesting take. I don't watch the show. Is Finn gay also?

Either way... I would have rewritten "faggy" to the much more ( to my east-coast ear, anyway) offensive "faggoty".

As it is... dad's tirade is a little over the top, directed as it is at what seems to be ( Finn) an otherwise relatively sympathetic character.

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Response to Smarmie Doofus (Reply #2)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 02:08 PM

3. No, Finn is straight, and is the popular, stud quarterback of the football team.

I think dad's tough love smackdown is pretty harsh also, but IMO appropriately so, because the screenwriters wanted to use shock to drive home an important point.

Sometimes it takes a severe shock to the belief system to kick people out of the unconscious prejudices and perceptions that have been firmly inculcated into them because of the unreasonable, warped, but accepted social norms pervasive within the collective consciousness of a culture/society.

In this case, the warped social norm that is present in Finn's consciousness is institutionalized homophobia. The institutionalized homophobia present within Finn's subconscious belief system is something he was not consciously aware of; Finn totally believed that he had eliminated all vestiges of homophobia from his psyche and subsequent behavior. The next scene in the show portrays Finn as having realized that he had still held unconscious homophobic beliefs (against his conscious will), and that he has begun working on eliminating these undesirable homophobic beliefs from his person.

So the, IMO ingenious, scriptwriters had Kurt's dad shock both Finn and Kurt with his tirade -- and hopefully most of the audience that viewed the scene as well.

The very reason I love the scene so much is that addresses the hidden institutionalized homophobia present in many individuals who, like Finn, believe they have become enlightened and moved on from their past misconceptions of GLBTIQ persons, when in reality, homophobia is still hiding within their subconscious like a nasty, dormant virus, fully ready to become active again whenever circumstances are right.

Institutionalized racism and sexism often "infect" the subconscious of many well intentioned individuals like Finn in the same way.

Until these good hearted, well intentioned individuals recognize, and acknowledge, how deeply they have been affected by institutionalized homophobia/racism/sexism, they have no reason to work on "curing" it.

It often takes some "tough love" to cure these stubborn little nasties.


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Response to Zorra (Reply #3)

Thu Aug 2, 2012, 10:11 AM

4. Cathartic... no question; "warped social norm": no doubt about it.

For me, the "two by four to the noggin" approach ( which I will happily endorse and have actually used *in certain circumstances*) seems out of whack ( no pun intended) here and consequently the scene doesn't pass the the "realism test".

As far as attitudinal change goes... this is just not my experience about how that really works.

A more typical real world result, seems to me... rather than the subsequently enlightened and presumably contrite Finn that the writers apparently produced... would be alienation, anger and withdrawal and... politically speaking.... regression on the part of someone who was "half-way there". He just loses too much face in the scene. He already thinks he's doing great stuff by having a gay friend and breaking the gender-straightjacket by going out for the glee club. ( Which he IS, btw, in most HS environments). By which he puts himself in a situation where he's susceptible to we used to call "homosexual panic." In short... people will start to wonder if HE'S gay 'cause he's friends w. gays. ( They WILL, btw, in real life.)

Far as I can tell, ( again, I've never been able to follow the show, so I don't know the intricacies of the characters and the relationships) people like that tend to be more effectively motivated by *positives*.

Less "stick", more "carrot".

But... it's a tv show (a FOX tv show, yet) and subtlety doesn't carry well.

Anyway... it's a good show; the writers deserve credit for taking on these issues; and they should hire ME so that they can achieve artistic and political perfection.

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Response to Smarmie Doofus (Reply #4)

Sat Aug 4, 2012, 09:30 AM

7. That's not 'his gay friend' that is his step brother. They share a room. They are family.

Had that scene in fact been about a jock and his gay friend that would be one thing, but it is about a jock, his gay step brother and the man who is their father, in their parent's house.

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Response to Zorra (Reply #3)

Thu Aug 2, 2012, 11:17 AM

5. This, this, this, this, this!

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Response to Zorra (Reply #3)

Sat Aug 4, 2012, 09:22 AM

6. It often takes some "tough love" to cure these stubborn little nasties.

I agree with that. We should support each other in that. When it actually happens, not just in theory. Because as you say 'Until these good hearted, well intentioned individuals recognize, and acknowledge, how deeply they have been affected by institutionalized homophobia/racism/sexism, they have no reason to work on "curing" it.' And I agree with that. They have to acknowledge it or they can not progress. I am surprised to read that you think this way, and glad if you really intend to take that into real world practice.

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