HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Topics » Offbeat » Creative Speculation (Group) » Janis, Jimi and Jim
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Thu Jan 26, 2012, 06:51 PM

 

Janis, Jimi and Jim

So... were Janis joplin, Jim morrison and Jimi Hendrix murered as part of the war against hippie culture, that reached its peak in the 80's when Reagan finished off the remnants of that era, by allowing corporate monopolies to take over radio and record companies, replacing socially relevant music as was heard at Woodstock with insipid, commercially packaged corporate music we hear today? It isn't music - it is commmercial jingles not attached to a brand of product.

41 replies, 5925 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 41 replies Author Time Post
Reply Janis, Jimi and Jim (Original post)
unionworks Jan 2012 OP
arcane1 Jan 2012 #1
unionworks Jan 2012 #2
RZM Jan 2012 #3
Nuclear Unicorn Jan 2012 #4
unionworks Jan 2012 #5
LARED Jan 2012 #7
unionworks Jan 2012 #8
unionworks Jan 2012 #6
mzteris Jan 2012 #9
unionworks Jan 2012 #10
mzteris Jan 2012 #11
unionworks Jan 2012 #12
unionworks Jan 2012 #13
mzteris Jan 2012 #16
unionworks Jan 2012 #18
mzteris Jan 2012 #19
unionworks Jan 2012 #14
jberryhill Jan 2012 #20
eomer May 2012 #33
PufPuf23 Jan 2012 #15
unionworks Jan 2012 #17
Merlot Jan 2012 #24
REP Jan 2012 #21
PufPuf23 Jan 2012 #22
REP Jan 2012 #23
Merlot Feb 2012 #25
I am the OP Feb 2012 #27
I am the OP Feb 2012 #26
unionworks Feb 2012 #28
JDPriestly Mar 2012 #29
unionworks Mar 2012 #30
apocalypsehow May 2012 #31
Shagman May 2012 #32
William Seger May 2012 #34
LARED Jun 2012 #41
karlaa Jun 2012 #35
taterguy Jun 2012 #36
zappaman Jun 2012 #37
taterguy Jun 2012 #38
zappaman Jun 2012 #39
deconstruct911 Jun 2012 #40

Response to unionworks (Original post)

Thu Jan 26, 2012, 07:01 PM

1. Nope, they were just idiots when it came to drugs & alcohol.

Besides, I'd hardly call Sha Na Na "socially relevant"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to arcane1 (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 26, 2012, 08:04 PM

2. "Get a Job"

 

...not socially relevant? And it's not your fault, but it seems you are unaware of how hooover and the fbi viewed the "counterculture". Edwin Meese was Reagans attack dog.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to unionworks (Original post)

Fri Jan 27, 2012, 04:23 AM

3. Occam's razor here

 

Was it a dastardly plot to silence people who made music? Or are drugs and alcohol in lavish excess really hazardous to your health.

You make the call.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RZM (Reply #3)

Fri Jan 27, 2012, 03:31 PM

4. Maybe it was the letter "J"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RZM (Reply #3)

Fri Jan 27, 2012, 08:02 PM

5. Yah D&A also killed

 

Two Kennedys, King and John Lennon, right? COINTELPRO and MkUltra are frigments of our LSD soaked imaginations. FAIL

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to unionworks (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 27, 2012, 08:07 PM

7. Unassailable logic

 

or something like that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LARED (Reply #7)

Fri Jan 27, 2012, 08:45 PM

8. just as yours is

 

In dismissing the existence of these things jjust because "I Say so".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to unionworks (Original post)

Fri Jan 27, 2012, 08:04 PM

6. dear hosts

 

...isn't this supposed to be a "group" where like minded people can discuss free of hassle?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to unionworks (Reply #6)

Fri Jan 27, 2012, 08:53 PM

9. It's CREATIVE speculation

if you're being disagreed with creatively, it's not a hassle.

Like-minded doesn't mean lock-step. Just because they're disagreeing with doesn't necessarily mean they're hassling you (unless you show you're easily wound up...)

FWIW - I disagree with your premise. I think they were unfortunate young people who did too much drugs and drinking - not unlike Lindsay Lohan and Brittany Spears and - even Demi Moore - who sadly isn't that young anymore but seems to try an want to act like it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mzteris (Reply #9)

Fri Jan 27, 2012, 09:05 PM

10. Don't forget Amy Winehouse

 

...another member of the "27 club", But, perhaps you were unaware the fbi surveillance of politically minded rockers was incredible under J. Edgar Hoover - perhaps I will need to post links to prove this. It seems I am getting automatic dismissal instead of at least any consideration of the ideas though. But, I shall return - with links! Bring pancakes and syryp!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to unionworks (Reply #10)

Fri Jan 27, 2012, 09:16 PM

11. I'm sure kinky old JEdgar

had "them" and all those other hippies under observation.

He might even have been tempted to "do them in" - but seriously, I think they did themselves in just fine all by themselves.

Maybe there's more to it, but ffs - that was a really long damn time ago - shouldn't you be putting your efforts into the egregious transgressions occurring NOW?!?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mzteris (Reply #11)

Fri Jan 27, 2012, 09:33 PM

12. ah, yes, perhaps

 

But, my intelligent young friend, you may find the key to the mysteries of today lays hidden in the dark shadows of the past. FYI, I support my local Occupy movement spiritually and materially. I damn near had a breakdown when the crackdowns began, seeing Scott Olsen being carried to safety by his brave brothers and sisters. I cursed through my gritted teeth, "No! This can't be happening again! Not twice in one lifetime"! But that is the curse of being one of the last of the boomers. It is my duty to remember, and pass along what I saw so it will not be forgotten and hopefully not repeated. Kent State, for example. I was in Catholic school with the younger brother of the photographer who took the Pulitzer winning photo of the girl kneeling beside the dead body of a slain student, her hands raised in anguish. I hung out at my friends house, and remember the fear on his parents faces. We were like 13 y.o. at the time. And as things escalated this fall, I found myself praying that history not repeat, BECAUSE OF MY MEMORY OF THE PAST. Believe me, it is best not to forget those times, because then you lose sight of what can happen and how far things can go. I've babbled enough, sorry.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mzteris (Reply #11)

Fri Jan 27, 2012, 09:47 PM

13. What was your H.S. graduating year like?

 

In mine, 1974-1975, I saw a president named Nixon resign in disgrace after the Watergate hearings, which I watched daily after school. I watched in horror on my t.v. the evacuation of Saigon, the pushing of helicopters off the sides of carriers in Cam Rahn bay, to make room for more as our Vietnamee friends and lasst remaining personell ran like hell from the approaching NVA, after 10 years and 57,000 American dead and triple that number maimed. I am the last of the boomers, branded forever as the generation that "lost our war". I can tell you just how far things can go. And I will not forget. I feel like I owe it to someone.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to unionworks (Reply #13)

Sat Jan 28, 2012, 04:13 PM

16. 74.

I won't forget either.

BUT - sometimes people can take the whole conspiracy thing too far. I mean - I LOVE a good conspiracy theory - I've got paranoid tendencies myself, but the people mentioned had serious drug problems. I think they did themselves in.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mzteris (Reply #16)

Sat Jan 28, 2012, 05:15 PM

18. you remember too!

 

The Nixon administation was a. Conspiracy theorists nightmare - and in the end, a vindication. And Bushco took what Nixon was doiing to the level of a black art, but never suffered the consequences that Nixon did, except the fact that the rethugs got creamed in 2008. And I am proud of having served the Obama campaign - I have the victory photo to prove it! And when I talk "conspiracy", you won't hear me blaming Bigfoot for having secret meetings with the aliens, etc.. I like discussing contoversial historiical events that have at least some shred of credibility.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to unionworks (Reply #18)

Sat Jan 28, 2012, 09:34 PM

19. Yup.

I most definitely remember...

I think they got smarter. And rely on the complacency and ignorance of the masses.

are you a MIHOP or a LIHOP ?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mzteris (Reply #11)

Fri Jan 27, 2012, 10:42 PM

14. you may notice

 

From a 13 year old kid in 1970 Kent State to a draft eligible 18 year old at the fall of Saigon/Watergate is a stretch of 5 years or so. The whole time you are thinking "this is going to stop soon, things can't go on this long like this". But it doesn't stop. And the bodies just keep piling higher every single day. And finally some start calling Dick Nkixon and entourage crooks and liars, who are spying on their "enemies list" and wiretappikng the opposition. And they called us "conspiracy kooks". UNTIL IT ALL TURNED OUT TO BE TRUE GO DIRECTLY TO JAIL HOWARD HUNT GORDON LIDDY AND PALS DO NOT PASS GO DO NOT COLLECT $200 DOLLARS

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to unionworks (Reply #6)

Sun Jan 29, 2012, 11:28 AM

20. No, it is not the "unchallenged bullshit" forum

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to unionworks (Reply #6)

Tue May 8, 2012, 03:56 PM

33. "Free-thinkers and skeptics are both welcome." So, no, not for only like-minded people.

Group's Statement of Purpose:
Discuss conspiracy theories and other highly-speculative topics. Free-thinkers and skeptics are both welcome. When posting, please be mindful of the DU Terms of Service.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to unionworks (Original post)

Sat Jan 28, 2012, 04:01 PM

15. "Entertaining" Creative Speculation website with an series about 60s music

Inside The LC: The Strange but Mostly True Story of Laurel Canyon and the Birth of the Hippie Generation
Part I

May 8, 2008

"There’s something happening here
What it is ain’t exactly clear"

Join me now, if you have the time, as we take a stroll down memory lane to a time nearly four-and-a-half decades ago – a time when America last had uniformed ground troops fighting a sustained and bloody battle to impose, uhmm, ‘democracy’ on a sovereign nation.

It is the first week of August, 1964, and U.S. warships under the command of U.S. Navy Admiral George Stephen Morrison have allegedly come under attack while patrolling Vietnam’s Tonkin Gulf. This event, subsequently dubbed the ‘Tonkin Gulf Incident,’ will result in the immediate passing by the U.S. Congress of the obviously pre-drafted Tonkin Gulf Resolution, which will, in turn, quickly lead to America’s deep immersion into the bloody Vietnam quagmire. Before it is over, well over fifty thousand American bodies – along with literally millions of Southeast Asian bodies – will litter the battlefields of Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia.

For the record, the Tonkin Gulf Incident appears to differ somewhat from other alleged provocations that have driven this country to war. This was not, as we have seen so many times before, a ‘false flag’ operation (which is to say, an operation that involves Uncle Sam attacking himself and then pointing an accusatory finger at someone else). It was also not, as we have also seen on more than one occasion, an attack that was quite deliberately provoked. No, what the Tonkin Gulf incident actually was, as it turns out, is an ‘attack’ that never took place at all. The entire incident, as has been all but officially acknowledged, was spun from whole cloth. (It is quite possible, however, that the intent was to provoke a defensive response, which could then be cast as an unprovoked attack on U.S ships. The ships in question were on an intelligence mission and were operating in a decidedly provocative manner. It is quite possible that when Vietnamese forces failed to respond as anticipated, Uncle Sam decided to just pretend as though they had.)

Nevertheless, by early February 1965, the U.S. will – without a declaration of war and with no valid reason to wage one – begin indiscriminately bombing North Vietnam. By March of that same year, the infamous “Operation Rolling Thunder” will have commenced. Over the course of the next three-and-a-half years, millions of tons of bombs, missiles, rockets, incendiary devices and chemical warfare agents will be dumped on the people of Vietnam in what can only be described as one of the worst crimes against humanity ever perpetrated on this planet.

http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr93.html

The Laurel Canyon rock music series is up to 19 installments and at least one more is planned. The thesis is that many of the musicians that came together in Laurel Canyon were children of the MIC and the music and drug culture was to derail the anti-war movement. Lookout Mountain at the top if Laurel Canyon was a military intelligence facility for years.

Jim Morrison is the son of Admiral Morrison of the Gulf of Tonkin Incident. There is one picture of Jim with his father not that many years before his fame and the transition to rock star is striking.

I saw and heard the Doors at Winterland in 1968, Janis and Big Brother at Winterland and Fillmore West, and Hendrix at Berkeley Community Theatre (on a high school field trip no less).

I also quite favor(ed) Mr. Zappa.

I post the above link for entertainment and humor value only as an example what can happen by a busy exercise in connecting the dots.

Two interesting books to read:

1. Storming Heaven - LSD and the American Dream (1987); Jay Stevens

2. Acid Dreams - The CIA, LSD, and the 60s Rebellion (1985) Martin Lee and Bruce Shlain

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PufPuf23 (Reply #15)

Sat Jan 28, 2012, 05:02 PM

17. when you're strange

 

...skeptics come out of the rain..." Thanks! After all these years, I never knew Jim Morrisons Dad was in command at the Gulf of Tonkin. Great resources much appreciated!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to unionworks (Reply #17)

Tue Jan 31, 2012, 11:04 PM

24. Jim Morrisons dad, that is really...interesting

There is a really good documentary on Jim Morrison and the Doors on Netflix. Sorry I can't remember the name. Anyhow, it does have one interview with Jim's dad, and I have to day I've never disliked someone so quickly. You could hear how he just could not bring himself to say one nice thing about his son. Brought a lot of Morrisons lyrics into perspective.

The documentary discusses how Jim Morrison was facing prison time for the indecent exposure charges and he was really terrified of what could happen. I don't think he was killed, but he was singled out, pursued and harassed by the police probably on orders from the higher ups.

As to your theory, no I don't think that the three were killed, though probably TPTB were happy to see them go. I think they were young, brilliant, and living hard. They had money, fame, and no limitations on what they could do.

Another one is Lenny Bruce. His story is tragic.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PufPuf23 (Reply #15)

Sun Jan 29, 2012, 03:15 PM

21. Acid Dreams is a very good book

But it doesn't give any credence (Creedence?) to the theory put forth in the OP.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to REP (Reply #21)

Sun Jan 29, 2012, 09:47 PM

22. Was offering a broader perspective in Creative Speculations

about the time and place and music rather than stance regards the OP.

Janis and Jimi, no way; Jim Morrison maybe perhaps?

Agree, Acid Dreams is very good book. Should be read to prepare one's mind for contemplation of the OP.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PufPuf23 (Reply #22)

Sun Jan 29, 2012, 09:56 PM

23. It does an excellent job at pointing out how many lies the public has been fed about certain drugs

It opened my eyes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PufPuf23 (Reply #15)

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:13 PM

25. Thanks for posting this Laurel Canyon article

Very interesting how all these young musicians came from military backgrounds. And who know that Mike Nesmith of the Monkies had A $25 million inheritance already?

While I do take this with a grain of salt, it's well worth the read. I'm looking forward to reading the next installment, their are 20 articles on this topic alone.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PufPuf23 (Reply #15)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 07:02 PM

27. Wow, thanks for those books! I am gonna search my library tonight!

 

And I notice that many of the people who make the news for killing have some ties to the military (either ex-member or family was in it). MK Ultra, anyone? Mindslaves!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to unionworks (Original post)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 06:59 PM

26. Jimi, for sure.

 

He was so spiritual (purple haze was NOT about a certain type of acid but his astral travels) and "they" wanted him to be a junkie/druggie type.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to I am the OP (Reply #26)

Wed Feb 8, 2012, 12:22 AM

28. It has been said

 

That a lot of record labels in the '60s were mob affiliated. Successful artists did not have to buy drugs off the street. How hard would it be to slip someone a hotshot? The problem though is I think only Janis died from O.D.. I could be wrong.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to unionworks (Original post)

Sat Mar 3, 2012, 03:44 AM

29. People who master a musical instrument are often very shy, very introverted.

They may love to perform, but they may hate it.

Either way, after a performance, they may feel an enormous let-down, deep depression. That can lead to drug and alcohol abuse.

Also, very successful rock musicians tend to have a lot of money. In the 60s and 70s, they attracted a lot of people who wanted their money and who offered drugs and alcohol and parties in exchange for it. That kind of life can become a habit. And drug users eventually make a mistake and pay dearly for it.

The deaths of these musicians are probably not similar to the deaths of the Kennedy brothers, MLK and other liberal, independent-thinking leaders. Can't absolutely exclude the possibility that one or more of them were similar, but it is unlikely in my opinion.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JDPriestly (Reply #29)

Sat Mar 3, 2012, 01:10 PM

30. Van Morrison

 

... one of my favorites, suffered from horrible stage fright. He once performed to a huge audience with his back turned.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to unionworks (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2012, 06:41 PM

31. Good grief. They changed the name from "September 11" to "Creative Speculation," but I see if

anything the bizarre conspiracy conjectures have only intensified. Guess it's good to know some things never change, even if it's the nuttiness factor of a certain DU sub-forum.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to unionworks (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:11 PM

32. Lennon definitely a threat

I don't know about the others, but John Lennon was definitely a threat to the Establishment. if he threw his support behind an issue, things happened. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if his assassination was orchestrated by Hoover.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Shagman (Reply #32)

Tue May 8, 2012, 06:59 PM

34. Really?

Who conducted the planning seance with Hoover -- Sylvia Browne?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Shagman (Reply #32)

Mon Jun 11, 2012, 04:27 AM

41. Pretty cool

 

Hoover died in 1972 and was still able to orchestrate Lennon's assassination eight years later.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to unionworks (Original post)

Tue Jun 5, 2012, 03:56 AM

35. Spam deleted by gkhouston (MIR Team)

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to unionworks (Original post)

Fri Jun 8, 2012, 07:24 AM

36. Ronnie Van Zant was the biggest threat to the PTB so they took him out

He was the monkeywrench in the GOP's Southern Strategy.

He represented rednecks but was smart enough to realize that the politics of division was just a way to keep working class people from realizing that they were getting screwed. (See Mr. Banker).

He campaigned for Carter when his band was one of the biggest on the planet.

Nine months after the inauguration his plane went down.

Reagan swept the South three years later.

Coincidence?

I think not.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to taterguy (Reply #36)

Fri Jun 8, 2012, 01:42 PM

37. Thank you

Best laugh of the day.
Don't even get me started on how the PTB took out Stevie Ray Vaughn...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zappaman (Reply #37)

Fri Jun 8, 2012, 07:43 PM

38. So how did the PTB take out Stevie Ray Vaughn?

Or are you not at liberty to say?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to taterguy (Reply #38)

Sat Jun 9, 2012, 01:13 PM

39. I would love to tell you

but you are below the paygrade.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to unionworks (Original post)

Sun Jun 10, 2012, 06:26 PM

40. I thought the 27 club faked their deaths

as part of the Saturnian 27 club ritual. Ya know?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread