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Fri Jan 13, 2012, 09:14 PM

So, who do you think killed the Iranian scientists?

Don't know if this belongs here but many creative speculations can be made about it. Was it Israel? was it the CIA? Maybe it was some Iranian peace activists that wanted to prevent their country from developing nukes. Any thoughts or creative speculations?

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Arrow 14 replies Author Time Post
Reply So, who do you think killed the Iranian scientists? (Original post)
FarLeftFist Jan 2012 OP
zappaman Jan 2012 #1
Cherchez la Femme Jan 2012 #8
T S Justly Jan 2012 #2
napoleon_in_rags Jan 2012 #3
Bolo Boffin Jan 2012 #4
Behind the Aegis Jan 2012 #5
hack89 Jan 2012 #6
Bolo Boffin Jan 2012 #7
jberryhill Jan 2012 #9
ocpagu Jan 2012 #10
Behind the Aegis Jan 2012 #11
OnTheOtherHand Jan 2012 #12
Bolo Boffin Jan 2012 #13
RZM Jan 2012 #14

Response to FarLeftFist (Original post)

Fri Jan 13, 2012, 09:19 PM

1. good question

Hard to not think Israel had something to do with it IMO.

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Response to zappaman (Reply #1)

Sun Jan 15, 2012, 06:49 PM

8. Yep

it's got Mossad written all over it.
Could be in conjunction with the CIA, but I hope we're not that stupid.

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Response to FarLeftFist (Original post)

Fri Jan 13, 2012, 11:09 PM

2. Anyone trying to avoid an investigation would be the initial if not prime suspect(s). (nt) (nr)

 

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Response to FarLeftFist (Original post)

Sat Jan 14, 2012, 12:40 AM

3. Notice the playing up of the complexity in the US news.

High level attack, could only be done by a state I heard on CNN. But it was a bomb stuck to some magnets delivered by a motorcycle, by somebody who knew the guy enough to follow. If this attack was done by high level forces, it was designed to be crude and spectacular, to send a warning message rather than to just take out the target. Spectacular everybody-sees-it attacks executed by simple means are the normal MO of terrorist groups, not state forces. But there is no interest in associating the attack with a smaller force in the reporting, rather they are trying to elevate its origins. That's significant, but I'm not sure what it means.

What really grinds my gears is all the dead scientists. I'm not just talking Iran, some time ago a bunch of scientists who knew how to make bio-weapons in the US were killed, and in the UK so many of scientists who worked on nuclear defense systems were found dead in horrific ways... Good scientists are rare, precious and beautiful creatures, people who can really change the world, but they are often put forth as pawns in these games, when they should be kings and queens. What I would like to see would be a global order of scientists, they work for you if you work for them, meaning if mullah wants the fruits of science, mullah implements rational secular reforms. You want to solve the proliferation problem? This is how you do it. Consider: Einstein wept in Japan apologizing for how things went down in Hiroshima due to his own work (refer to Dawkins saying that less lethal demonstrations of the bomb's power could have affected Japanese surrender) The people have the rationality to discover the forces are those who have the rationality to know when and how to use them. But subverting the powers of scientists here is reflected in the Middle East, leading the the inevitable conclusion of the irrational nutjob holding the fruits of pure rationality, the bomb, in his hands.

People need to decide if they want rationality in charge or not. And if not, they need to accept the fruits of the fruits of rationality in the hands of the irrational.

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Response to FarLeftFist (Original post)

Sat Jan 14, 2012, 01:03 AM

4. A possibility is that Iran is doing it itself

I'm not speaking to the plausibility of the possibility, just that it exists.

One motive would be false flag, of course, but another is the elimination of leaks to the West.

Just a creative speculation.

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Response to FarLeftFist (Original post)

Sat Jan 14, 2012, 02:18 AM

5. I think it was an inside job.

It was either the Iranian group trying to overthrow the current government or, who I really think is responsible; the current Iranian government. While the US and Israel are always possibilities, I think this has more about preventing upcoming talks, not the Iranian nuclear program. How I see it: killing nuclear scientists is not going to stop the program, short of a massive kill. If anything, it could force the Iranians to speed up the process. However, if these people were leaks, say to the Israelis, US, or even the IAEA, then it could be the current government trying to shut them up.

With all the "Chicken little" stories about attacks on Iran over the past ten years, one thing has changed over the past several months. Though the "toughman" rhetoric hasn't stopped, the actual accusations have started "drying up." We are seeing more and more "top advisers" in Israel, the US, and Europe, saying it isn't possible for Iran to develop the weapons, or the schedule, which was "just months away," has slipped to "years" once again. If it comes out that Iran is full of shit, it will show a huge weakness.

Were all 5 done by the Iranian government? I don't know. But this one, I think this one was to stop a leak or stop talks.

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Response to FarLeftFist (Original post)

Sat Jan 14, 2012, 07:08 AM

6. People’s Mujahadeen Organization of Iran (MEK) with possible help from Israel. nt

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Response to hack89 (Reply #6)

Sat Jan 14, 2012, 07:51 AM

7. You're no fun. n/t

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Response to FarLeftFist (Original post)

Sun Jan 15, 2012, 09:56 PM

9. Them

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Response to FarLeftFist (Original post)

Sun Jan 15, 2012, 10:47 PM

10. Oh, my God...

 

So there are people who really believe Iran is killing its own top nuclear scientists in order to... develop its nuclear science?

Yep, makes perfect sense.

So, let me see if I got this straight: US government killing US citizens in the United States -> obviously lunatic bullshit. Iranian government killing Iranian citizens in Iran -> pretty much plausible.

I guess American exceptionalism is alive and kicking.

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Response to ocpagu (Reply #10)

Mon Jan 16, 2012, 12:35 AM

11. OMG, indeed.

Who said anything like "Iran is killing its own top nuclear scientists in order to develop its nuclear science? " That is indeed puzzling. Or it could be nothing more than a strawman.

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Response to ocpagu (Reply #10)

Mon Jan 16, 2012, 08:53 AM

12. no, I don't think you have that straight at all

US government killing US citizens in the United States -> obviously lunatic bullshit.


That straw man tends to get trotted out immediately after some odd argument for controlled demolition (or whatever) has been eviscerated.

I don't see anyone saying that Iran is killing its own top nuclear scientists, either. I saw Bolo suggest that it's possible, if not necessarily plausible, that Iran arranged this particular killing as a false flag attack and/or to eliminate a leak.

Anyone who is convinced that the US government arranged the 9/11 attacks, yet considers it crazy even to mention the possibility that Iran would assassinate just one of its own citizens, may indeed be in the throes of American exceptionalism.

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Response to ocpagu (Reply #10)

Mon Jan 16, 2012, 09:44 AM

13. I find it far more likely that hack89's suggestion is correct.

MEK w/ possible help from Israel.

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Response to FarLeftFist (Original post)

Mon Jan 16, 2012, 11:15 AM

14. Probably not the Iranian government

 

Although that is possible. So far the best suggestion seems to be MEK with outside help. Mossad and other intelligence agencies probably have good contacts with MEK as well as other collaborators and even their own people on the ground.

Remember Ari Fleischer's quote about Saddam and 'one bullet' (for which he says he was severely upbraided by Bush himself)? It's alot cheaper and easier to assassinate people than to go to war. My guess is that it's Iranians doing the deeds, with support from outside intelligence agencies.

If that is what is happening, I don't know if it's right or wrong. It is a jungle out there and Iran has alot of enemies, so it is what it is, I guess.

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