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Fri Apr 27, 2012, 05:44 AM

Foreign Ministry slams Guardian newspaper for insisting Tel Aviv is Israel’s capital

Israel reacted with unusually sharp criticism Wednesday to a British newspaper’s designation of Tel Aviv as Israel’s capital, calling it a “blatant lie” that insults people’s intelligence. On Sunday, the London-based Guardian newspaper ran a correction of a photo caption it had run two days earlier that described Jews in Jerusalem as being in Israel’s capital.

“The caption on a photograph featuring passengers on a tram in Jerusalem observing a two-minute silence for Yom HaShoah, a day of remembrance for the 6 million Jews who died in the Holocaust, wrongly referred to the city as the Israeli capital,” the correction read. “The Guardian style guide states: ‘Jerusalem is not the capital of Israel; Tel Aviv is.’”

Indeed, the newspaper’s style guide includes the above entry, adding that designating Jerusalem as capital is “a mistake we have made more than once.”

Foreign Ministry deputy spokesperson Ilana Stein told The Times of Israel: “Actually, it’s the Guardian who owes an explanation to its readers for publishing something that cannot be described but as a blatant lie. When a claim is so factually wrong as to insult intelligence, then unfortunately the word ‘lie’ is not too harsh, and one cannot but wonder about the motivation of such a conceit.”

more...
http://www.timesofisrael.com/foreign-ministry-slams-guardian-newspaper-for-insisting-tel-aviv-is-israels-capital/

Hmm, what does this tell us about the Guardian's reporting on Israel? Imagine the howls from the anti-zionist hordes if the Jerusalem Post insisted that Gaza City is the capital of all Palestine.

41 replies, 4220 views

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Arrow 41 replies Author Time Post
Reply Foreign Ministry slams Guardian newspaper for insisting Tel Aviv is Israel’s capital (Original post)
shira Apr 2012 OP
azurnoir Apr 2012 #1
oberliner Apr 2012 #2
azurnoir Apr 2012 #3
shira Apr 2012 #4
parkia00 Apr 2012 #5
shira Apr 2012 #6
parkia00 Apr 2012 #9
shira Apr 2012 #14
parkia00 Apr 2012 #17
shira Apr 2012 #23
parkia00 Apr 2012 #28
shira Apr 2012 #29
parkia00 May 2012 #30
azurnoir Apr 2012 #13
shira Apr 2012 #24
oberliner Apr 2012 #7
parkia00 Apr 2012 #10
oberliner Apr 2012 #12
azurnoir Apr 2012 #18
holdencaufield Apr 2012 #19
azurnoir Apr 2012 #20
oberliner Apr 2012 #21
holdencaufield Apr 2012 #22
azurnoir Apr 2012 #27
shira Apr 2012 #25
azurnoir Apr 2012 #26
shira Apr 2012 #8
parkia00 Apr 2012 #11
shira Apr 2012 #15
parkia00 Apr 2012 #16
shira May 2012 #31
Scurrilous May 2012 #32
shira May 2012 #33
Scurrilous May 2012 #35
oberliner May 2012 #34
shaayecanaan May 2012 #36
oberliner May 2012 #37
shaayecanaan May 2012 #38
oberliner May 2012 #39
shaayecanaan May 2012 #40
oberliner May 2012 #41

Response to shira (Original post)

Fri Apr 27, 2012, 06:45 AM

1. isn't the Guardian a UK paper?

it is simply echoing the UK's position on Jerusalem

United Kingdom position

United Kingdom According to the United Kingdom, Jerusalem was supposed to be a corpus separatum, or international city administered by the UN. This was never set up: immediately after the UNGA resolution partitioning Palestine, Israel occupied West Jerusalem. Jordan occupied East Jerusalem (including the Old City). The UK recognised the de facto control of Israel and Jordan, but not sovereignty. In 1967, Israel captured East Jerusalem, which the UK considers a military occupation and regards Israeli settlements in East Jerusalem as illegal, under the terms of the Fourth Geneva Convention. The UK Embassy to Israel is in Tel Aviv, not Jerusalem. In East Jerusalem there is a Consulate-General, with a Consul-General who is not accredited to any state: this is an expression of the view that no state has sovereignty over Jerusalem.

The UK believes that the city’s status has yet to be determined, and maintains that it should be settled in an overall agreement between the parties concerned, but considers that the city should not again be divided. The Declaration of Principles and the Interim Agreement, signed by Israel and the PLO on 13 September 1993 and 28 September 1995 respectively, left the issue of the status of Jerusalem to be decided in the ‘permanent status’ negotiations between the two parties.

This page was last modified on 24 April 2012 at 09:09.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positions_on_Jerusalem#Location_of_foreign_embassies
can you list the countries that do officially consider Jerusalem Israel's capital and have backed that up by moving their embassies there?

now it should be noted that Israel annexed East Jerusalem in 1980 by that was declared to be void by UNSC Resolution 478.

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 27, 2012, 07:30 AM

2. The paper identified Tel Aviv as Israel's capital

This is not the UK's position. It is simply not true.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #2)

Fri Apr 27, 2012, 08:17 AM

3. so inform us please what is the officially recognized capital of Israel

where are most albeit not all foreign embassies in Israel located, some are in the suburbs of Tel Aviv aren't they? where is the UK's embassy in Israel located? and it should be noted that the outrage in the OP seemed to Tel Aviv as opposed to Jerusalem not simply Tel Aviv alone

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #3)

Fri Apr 27, 2012, 10:57 AM

4. The point is The Guardian newspaper lied. Get it?

Tel Aviv is certainly not the capital of Israel.

They can characterize Jerusalem like the UN does, but that doesn't make Tel Aviv Israel's capital.

The Guardian cannot be taken seriously as a credible source WRT Israel when they so blatantly lie.

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #3)

Fri Apr 27, 2012, 11:01 AM

5. Isn't the US embessy also not located in the Holy City?

Seems more like an attempt by the OP to paint The Guardian as an antisemitic newspaper for what ever reason the OP seems fit.

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Response to parkia00 (Reply #5)

Fri Apr 27, 2012, 11:12 AM

6. You don't believe the Guardian lied, do you?

They're claiming Tel Aviv is Israel's capital when it's most certainly not.

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Response to shira (Reply #6)

Fri Apr 27, 2012, 01:31 PM

9. In most parts of the world...

Tel Aviv is considered as Israel's capital and that's where most of the embassies are located. Is the Guardian lying about that? It matters little if you like it or not, it's just a fact. Another fact is that most countries of the world do not recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital. Is The Guardian lying about that too? Again it's a fact.

It doesn't matter if a newspaper or an individual comments that an apple in the basket is an apple but you MUCH prefer that apple to be an orange, so you start your "defense" by calling them liars so you can change the apple to the orange that you want. You aren't going to go very far before you start making a fool of yourself.

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Response to parkia00 (Reply #9)

Fri Apr 27, 2012, 04:35 PM

14. Yes or No. Is Tel Aviv Israel's capital? n/t


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Response to shira (Reply #14)

Fri Apr 27, 2012, 11:18 PM

17. I follow the Position of the United States

The United States has withheld recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital; in line with a host of other nations. Because of that, no embassy in that city so the embassy must be located somewhere. Tel Aviv seems fine. An international cosmopolitanism city. More available land to build your embassy and much less contentious. Of course stubborn badgers might disapprove though I don't know how they can make countries move their embassy to the "right place"

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Response to parkia00 (Reply #17)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 02:19 PM

23. Okay, so the Guardian lied about Tel Aviv being Israel's capital, right?

If the Guardian simply reported Jerusalem isn't recognized and that most embassies are in Tel Aviv, that would have been accurate.

But they didn't.

They lied.

They have zero credibility WRT their coverage of I/P. The article down below about their Jenin reporting is even more proof of that.

=======

Tell me this. If the Guardian doesn't make a correction, what will you think about their coverage of I/P?

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Response to shira (Reply #23)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 01:24 PM

28. I would still read it daily.

Of course you might not approve, but I don't really care about that. A newspaper is more than just about the I/P issue. Since you so wholeheartedly believe the paper is crap when it comes to the I/P issue and thus anything it says about the I/P issue simply must be lies, anti-Israel, anti-Semitic swill and thus must be ignored, I don't follow that simple easy logic that some people like to promote. I make up my own mind. For example if an editorial in the paper implies any Israeli attack on Iran is a very very bad idea (patriotism and flag waving aside) I would tend to agree. Although according to some, such a comment by said newspaper is immediate irrelevant because of past issues. Same logic when it comes to papers with a right lean like J_Post. Just because of some screw ups or controversial editorials have left a paper slighted, it does not mean that anything they write from then onwards forever should be "uncredited" and tossed. If that happened, there would be a severe lack of media around. On both sides.

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Response to parkia00 (Reply #28)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 12:37 PM

29. Not talking about op-eds, but reporting news and facts...

And we're not talking some screw-ups. Every news source does that, but credible ones post retractions. The Guardian does not.

Do you compare Guardian facts on I/P to the facts being reported by other news sources?

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Response to shira (Reply #29)

Tue May 1, 2012, 10:08 AM

30. Like I said before....

I read and make up my own mind and not let others do it for me. Both The Guardian and J_Post have relevant news items in them. To refuse to read one area of a news paper which you are already reading is a bit myopic in my opinion. So I will read all news items that catch my eye and try to avoid the red herrings.

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Response to shira (Reply #6)

Fri Apr 27, 2012, 04:01 PM

13. Fine but then what is Israel's capital? n/t

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #13)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 02:22 PM

24. Jerusalem.

All the Guardian needed to say was that it's not recognized as such by other nations. That's all.

Do you believe they should retract, again?

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #3)

Fri Apr 27, 2012, 12:01 PM

7. Putting your embassy in a city does not make that city the capital

Foreign countries don't get to decide what the capital is of another independent state.

They can not recognize the proclaimed capital of the country, but they can't make a different city the capital simply by having their embassy there.

Deep down you must know that to be true.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #7)

Fri Apr 27, 2012, 01:33 PM

10. Name me some cases

in some countries where the embassies are NOT located in the capital city.

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Response to parkia00 (Reply #10)

Fri Apr 27, 2012, 02:12 PM

12. I can think of no country but Israel whose self-proclaimed capital isn't recognized internationally

Every other country has as its internationally recognized capital whatever city the country itself has designated.

Israel is singularly unique in this regard.

Thus, there is no other country I can think of where the embassies are not located in the capital city.

For any country of the world, however, it is absolutely indifferent in which of its cities other countries prefer to have their embassies and this in no way affects its status of the capital.

In Israel, the executive, legislative, and judicial branches are all located in Jerusalem.

Every country has the right to declare its own capital, and Israel declares its capital as Jerusalem.

Most countries don't recognize this declaration but I do not believe there is any country that recognizes Israel and identifies Tel Aviv is the capital.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #12)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 02:22 AM

18. But here is the problem Jerusalem is not yet recognized as a part of Israel

it is disputed territory and no matter how many Palestinians are kicked out or evicted from their homes no matter how many MK's pose for triumphant pictures on the furniture of the evicted no matter how many buildings Israel builds there or chest pounding proclamations of it is ours are made will change that

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #18)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 04:23 AM

19. Au Contraire, mon frere

 

Despite what the anti-Israel talking points script might say, the Western portion of Jerusalem and Mount Scopus has been part of Israel since independence in 1948. The Eastern portion of Jerusalem was part of Jordan until 1967. Jordan relinquished all claims to any part of Jerusalem in the 1980's.

Israel has every right to declare her capital in a city that has been a recognized part of that country since the day it was founded and a part of Jewish history for 3,000 years.

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #19)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 04:43 AM

20. The UNSC seemed to disagree with that, unless you do not believe Jerusalem is united as one city

now you are correct about West Jerusalem and if you wish to consider East and West Jerusalem 2 totally separate entities then West Jerusalem could be considered Israel's capital but as I understand it it is East Jerusalem or Jerusalem as one united city that is being declared Israel's capital

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #20)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 07:22 AM

21. But they still don't call Tel Aviv the capital

It's one thing to say that countries do not recognize Jerusalem is the capital, but that does not mean they get to choose a different city and name that the capital without Israel's consent.

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #20)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 07:29 AM

22. There is no East and West any longer

 

Jerusalem is one city - the temporary division of Jerusalem was the work of the Jordanians. For 19-years, Jordan grabbed as much of the city as they could -- the way the Russians seized as much of East Berlin as they could. For the last 45-years, Jerusalem has been a united city -- capitol of Israel.

Pretending it's still a divided city would be like pretending Berlin is still split by the Brandenburg Gate -- it isn't.

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #22)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 03:19 PM

27. well then if that is your belief then all of Jersalem is disputed territory and about Jordan

your right in that Jordan relinquished its claim to the West Bank in the 1980's July 31 1988 to be exact but what you fail to mention is that they relinquished it to the PLO now as to Jerusalem Jordan still holds rule over Muslim holy sites in the city to this day and any possible other agreements Israel did not occur until 1994

here is more on that agreement

Article 3: Borders

Delineate and recognize the international boundary between Israel and Jordan with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate, without prejudice to the status of any territories that came under Israeli military government control in 1967 (paragraph 2). Peace Island came under Jordanian military control, but Israel maintains administration and civilian presence.

Article 9: Holy places

Guaranteed free access to historically significant places. Israel agreed to respect Jordan's special role in protecting Muslim Holy shrines in Jerusalem. Israel agreed to give high priority to Jordan's historic role in these shrines during permanent status negotiations. The states also pledged to promote interfaith relations among Judaism, Islam and Christianity, with the aim of working towards religious understanding, moral commitment, freedom of religious worship, tolerance and peace.

Jerusalem: Jordan has preference concerning the status of Muslim holy places in the city (as a guardian or keeper of the holy places) in any future peace agreement with the Palestinians.

This page was last modified on 27 April 2012 at 19:18.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Jordan_Treaty_of_Peace#Article_9:_Holy_places

On July 31, 1988, Jordan ceded its claims to the West Bank — with the exception of guardianship over the Muslim Holy Sites of Jerusalem — to the Palestine Liberation Organization, as "the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people."

The 1993 Oslo Accords between the PLO and Israel "opened the road for Jordan to proceed on its own negotiating track with Israel." The Washington Declaration was initialed one day after the Oslo Accords were signed. "On July 25, 1994, King Hussein met with Israeli Prime Minister Rabin in the Rose Garden of the White House, where they signed the Washington Declaration, formally ending the 46-year state of war between Jordan and Israel." Finally, on October 26, 1994, Jordan signed the Israel-Jordan Treaty of Peace normalizing relations between the two countries and resolved territorial disputes between them.

This page was last modified on 25 April 2012 at 23:50.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordanian_occupation_of_the_West_Bank_and_East_Jerusalem

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #1)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 02:26 PM

25. The UK position is a joke. Israel occupied W.Jerusalem in 1948? Please. n/t

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Response to shira (Reply #25)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 03:13 PM

26. so then if that is what you believe you must not believe that Jerusalem is united?

is that the case?

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Response to shira (Original post)

Fri Apr 27, 2012, 12:25 PM

8. Ten Years Since Something That Never Happened: A Learning Moment for the Guardian

I submitted this to the Guardian as a commentary piece on April 4. On April 12 they confirmed that they will not be running it. Both Brian Whitaker, former Middle East Editor current CiF editor, and Harriet Sherwood, currently the Jerusalem correspondent, have informed me that there are no plans to revisit the Jenin issue or the Guardian’s coverage of it ten years ago. The readers editor also wrote me that he has no plan on revisiting the issue.

For two full weeks in April of 2002, the Guardian ran wild with lurid tales of an Israeli massacre in the Palestinian city of Jenin on the West Bank — a massacre that never happened. The misrepresentations and outright fabrications have never been properly addressed in the ten ensuing years, as though the Guardian’s editors believe nothing more than some hasty reporting and bad sourcing happened. But the reportorial failings were far too systematic to be so dismissed, and until the Guardian conducts a thorough investigation of its own errors and publishes a detailed account to its readers, its integrity on Israel-Palestine will continue to be called into question.

much more...


http://hurryupharry.org/2012/04/14/ten-years-since-something-that-never-happened-a-learning-moment-for-the-guardian/

This is a devastating piece for Guardian fans.

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Response to shira (Reply #8)

Fri Apr 27, 2012, 01:58 PM

11. Is This Another One Of Those "LOOK Over There!" deflection thingys?

If you use this logic that I think you are trying to push here; all newspapers, blogs, editorials and individuals that make reports on the endless shit parade that is the I/P conflict all these decades are all unfit to report on the subject because their integrity is called into question. All the good pro Israel, bad Palestinians sources and all the bad Israel poor victimized Palestinians sources are all unfit biased trash. Like a couple of guys wrestling in the mud and calling each other a muddy sock puppet. I guess it just depends on which side you are on to decide which muddy sock puppet is the cleaner one. Jerusalem Post or The Guardian?

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Response to parkia00 (Reply #11)

Fri Apr 27, 2012, 04:42 PM

15. Nope. It's related to the OP and demonstrates how unreliable the Guardian is with facts...

...about all things I/P.

If you think JPost is just as bad, can give some examples?

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Response to shira (Reply #15)

Fri Apr 27, 2012, 11:03 PM

16. JPost is quite popular source for some

But I really don't have to explain that the paper has a right lean to it the way The Guardian has a left lean to it. I don't have to show you all the examples as you already know. The one instance that really stuck with me was the editorial done about the Norway attacks that forced the paper to later apologize. Using that logic, then JPost is no longer fit to write anything about Norway.

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Response to shira (Original post)

Tue May 1, 2012, 12:52 PM

31. Forget the Guardian, how about Haaretz? They published Pam Gellar...

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Response to shira (Original post)

Tue May 22, 2012, 04:01 PM

32. Guardian not wrong to say Tel Aviv is Israel’s capital, panel says

‘While it is correct to say that Israel classes Jerusalem as her capital city, this is not recognized by many countries’

<snip>

"A complaint leveled against the Guardian over Israel’s capital city was decided in favor of the British newspaper.

In correcting a photo caption that had referred to Jerusalem as Israel’s capital, the newspaper wrote that “The caption on a photograph featuring passengers on a tram in Jerusalem observing a two-minute silence for Yom HaShoah, a day of remembrance for the 6 million Jews who died in the Holocaust, wrongly referred to the city as the Israeli capital. The Guardian style guide states: ‘Jerusalem is not the capital of Israel; Tel Aviv is.’”

The watchdog group HonestReporting submitted an official complaint with the United Kingdom Press Complaints Commission saying that Israel has identified its capital as Jerusalem.

In its decision issued Sunday, the Press Complaints Commission said that “While it is correct to say that Israel classes Jerusalem as her capital city, this is not recognized by many countries and those nations enjoying diplomatic relations with Israel have their embassies in Tel Aviv. As such, the Commission was of the view that the newspaper was entitled to refer to Tel Aviv as the capital of Israel. There was no breach of the Code in this instance.”

http://www.timesofisrael.com/guardian-not-wrong-to-say-tel-aviv-is-israels-capital-panel-says/

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Response to Scurrilous (Reply #32)

Tue May 22, 2012, 04:08 PM

33. Thanks for the laugh! n/t

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Response to shira (Reply #33)

Tue May 22, 2012, 04:44 PM

35. I knew you'd appreciate it.

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Response to Scurrilous (Reply #32)

Tue May 22, 2012, 04:44 PM

34. Wow

Truly stunning. Thank you for posting this. Mind-blowing and scary.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #34)

Tue May 22, 2012, 05:44 PM

36. You're taking the piss, right? (nt)

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Response to shaayecanaan (Reply #36)

Tue May 22, 2012, 07:42 PM

37. That's a new expression for me

Even having looked it up online, I am not entirely sure that I take your meaning.

Excuse my ignorance, but can you elucidate?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #37)

Wed May 23, 2012, 12:07 AM

38. it means, effectively...

"surely your comment is meant to be tongue in cheek?" or "you're joking?" or "you cannot be serious?"

Its a very common expression. I would have thought your Anglican studies would have equipped you for such things.

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Response to shaayecanaan (Reply #38)

Wed May 23, 2012, 02:49 AM

39. Anglican studies?

I am sensing that is sarcasm, but I'm not sure.

Anyway, thanks for explaining.

Here's my take on the Jerusalem/Tel Aviv thing.

If the paper had said:

"Since Jerusalem as Israel's capital is widely disputed and not recognized internationally, it is our policy not to identify it as such" (or words to that effect) - then I would completely understand and not be at all surprised or insulted.

However the fact that they said that it is their policy to declare Tel Aviv to be the capital of Israel, even though it is not recognized by Israel itself as being its capital, is to me quite shocking and insulting (and a little scary).

For a supposedly objective news source to make such a deliberately erroneous assertion as a fact blows my mind. Even some of the most biased sources with respect to Israel do not explicitly (and falsely) state that Tel Aviv is Israel's capital, which it isn't. I certainly know of no mainstream Western source like The Guardian that has does that.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #39)

Wed May 23, 2012, 08:27 AM

40. I was taking the piss out of you...

So to speak.

I essentially agree with your position, but I hardly think this amounts to one of the great crimes against humanity, nor is it mind blowing or particularly scary.

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Response to shaayecanaan (Reply #40)

Wed May 23, 2012, 08:50 AM

41. I'm glad we basically agree

Maybe I am making too much of it. I certainly don't think it's a crime against humanity, and I meant mind blowing and scary in the online discussion forum sense of those terms.

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