With a strong arm

[Violet_Crumble]

Is it possible Israeli security agencies could reach terrorist leaders in Dubai and in Damascus - at least according to foreign sources - but can't reach the Jewish terror leaders in the West Bank?

By Yoel Marcus

The undersigned was educated in a religious boarding school near Kfar Hasidim in the north. Boys and girls studied together. The girls would crochet skullcaps for the boys, and the institution was under the sponsorship of Hapoel Hamizrahi, a moderate Zionist party, from which the first advocates of Greater Israel eventually emerged.

Most of the counselors and teachers were Yekkes - German Jews. Discipline was strict. We had to wash every day in cold water, and only on Fridays did we get to enjoy a hot shower. The concept "exclusion" did not exist at the time. On Friday evening after Kiddush, girls and boys danced together. Nobody died and nobody was born as a result.

Near the school there was a yeshiva we liked to visit, but not to tease the students who studied aloud while twirling their side curls. We, the wearers of knitted skullcaps, would go there to engage in fly-catching competitions. For some reason, the yeshiva was full of flies.

Only later did we discover that they would continue to study and we would go to the army. They would continue to study, and we could be killed or wounded. During those days of adolescence we didn't think that in time two mutually hostile Jewish nations would arise here: a Zionist majority in a secular state versus a violent and thuggish ultra-Orthodox minority.

It's a minority that aspires to force its beliefs on the majority, and then there's a tiny minority that aspires to force Greater Israel on the majority, whatever the cost. All that as opposed to the legitimate political movement that used politics to fight against the return of the territories, and as opposed to the Labor Party, which initiated the settlements in the naive hope that what we occupied would remain in our hands.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/with-a-strong-arm-1.401704

[Ruby the Liberal]

1. Part of the quagmire here is the inevitable

Yes, it is the Wild Wild West out in the territories, and a large contingent of these folks just live and work there - they aren't part of the destroy-by-any-means crowd. That said, it seems like some think dismantling the settlements will have the same effect as Gaza in 2005. Put people on busses, give them some cash, and send them to start over in Beersheva. That will not happen - and the reason isn't that it is an issue of who is building a house on what parcel of dirt - it is that there is a mentality with the fringe that didn't exist with the farmers and greenhouse owners in Gaza. Move them out of the territories and into neighborhoods near Hebron and they will just keep on keeping on with new targets.

I have no magic wand as to how to deal with this mentality (much less attempt to change it), but anyone who thinks the two situations are similar and anticipates similar outcomes is either not a realist or hasn't been paying attention, IMO.

[pelsar]

2. the discussion is not about the settlements....

its clear to the vast majority of israelis that pulling out of the west bank with a weak, confused, corrupt, fragmented PA govt that the only thing were going to get is a "much worse situation". With no IDF in the west bank, to prop up the PA, they won't have much life left.....weak central govts cause havoc with our borders and lead to more being killed, the example of lebanon and now egypt show and of course gaza type govt being a real possibility post withdrawal.

The discussion and problem is that we have created a subculture that not only believes that they are above the law of israel, since they adhear to a higher law and god, but that they have the means to bring them closer to their goal. The goal being a non democratic, torah based larger israel, blah, blah, blah.

They are not going to go quietly, but the more they make good upon their threats, the sooner they will be dealt with. Presently the discussion is about which set of laws are going to be used against them...mind you this will not be easy as the fanatical of all are the 15-18 year old girls....minors in israel, where they're are a host of progressive laws protecting them.

[Ruby the Liberal]

3. "Which set of laws"

This is an interesting point. I appreciate that there is an undercurrent for instituting Rabbinical law to oversee the entire nation and the emotions that go along with this authoritarian choice, but don't get why the focus would be put on the minors involved in these activities and not just address the adults that are allowing it to take place under their watch. If these girls are deemed to not be responsible for their actions because they are minors, then by default, those in a position of authority over them (parents, teachers, Rabbis) should be.

[Scurrilous]

4. Speaking of arms....

Racism as self-harm: Man carves “death to Arabs” into his arm

<snip>

"Well, that’s a painful visual metaphor if there ever was one. A young Israeli man by the name of Yisrael Yehudai (lit: Israel Judean) has decided to express his hatred for Arabs not by a sticker, and not by actually attacking anyone (to my knowledge), but by carving the words “Death to Arabs” into his own arm. He posted this as a profile picture back in July, and the pic recently went viral:{see link}."

http://972mag.com/nationalism-as-self-harm-man-carves-death-to-arabs-into-his-hand/30162/