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Fri Apr 5, 2013, 05:58 PM

Air France fined for kicking pro-Palestinian activist off Israel-bound flight

The woman, a 30-year-old student, was attempting to fly to Israel last April as part of the 'Welcome to Palestine' fly-in protest; French prosecutors said the incident was a clear case of discrimination.

By Haaretz | Apr.04, 2013 | 7:04 PM |

A court in France fined Air France 10,000 euros ($12,800) on Thursday for ordering a pro-Palestinian activist to disembark from a Tel Aviv bound flight because she was a non-Jew, AFP reported.

The student in question, Hori Ankour, was trying to fly to Israel last April in order to take part in the "Welcome to Palestine" fly-in protest, in which activists from around the world sought to travel to Israel, in order to travel on to the West Bank.

When she was already on the plane, an airline employee asked whether or not the nursing student had an Israeli passport. When she replied that she didn't, AFP reported, she was asked whether or not she was Jewish. When she answered no again, she was taken off the plane in Nice, southeastern France.

The court also ordered Air France to pay some 3,000 euros in damages to the 30-year-old passenger, as well as to cover her legal fees.

French prosecutors said the incident was a clear case of discrimination, AFP reported, while Air France said the passenger's name was on a list provided by Israel, and that they knew she would not be allowed into the country.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/air-france-fined-for-kicking-pro-palestinian-activist-off-israel-bound-flight-1.513530

42 replies, 2251 views

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Arrow 42 replies Author Time Post
Reply Air France fined for kicking pro-Palestinian activist off Israel-bound flight (Original post)
Jefferson23 Apr 2013 OP
azurnoir Apr 2013 #1
holdencaufield Apr 2013 #2
Jefferson23 Apr 2013 #3
King_David Apr 2013 #4
Jefferson23 Apr 2013 #5
King_David Apr 2013 #6
Jefferson23 Apr 2013 #7
holdencaufield Apr 2013 #8
Jefferson23 Apr 2013 #10
azurnoir Apr 2013 #15
King_David Apr 2013 #12
delrem Apr 2013 #13
King_David Apr 2013 #14
Jefferson23 Apr 2013 #17
King_David Apr 2013 #18
Jefferson23 Apr 2013 #19
King_David Apr 2013 #20
Shaktimaan Apr 2013 #36
Jefferson23 Apr 2013 #37
azurnoir Apr 2013 #16
holdencaufield Apr 2013 #21
azurnoir Apr 2013 #22
holdencaufield Apr 2013 #23
azurnoir Apr 2013 #24
holdencaufield Apr 2013 #25
azurnoir Apr 2013 #26
holdencaufield Apr 2013 #27
azurnoir Apr 2013 #28
holdencaufield Apr 2013 #29
azurnoir Apr 2013 #30
shaayecanaan Apr 2013 #35
delrem Apr 2013 #9
Jefferson23 Apr 2013 #11
Dick Dastardly Apr 2013 #32
azurnoir Apr 2013 #33
Dick Dastardly Apr 2013 #39
azurnoir Apr 2013 #42
Dick Dastardly Apr 2013 #40
azurnoir Apr 2013 #41
delrem Apr 2013 #34
Jefferson23 Apr 2013 #38
azurnoir Apr 2013 #31

Response to Jefferson23 (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 06:42 PM

1. good if they knew and sold her the ticket anyway

then it was a fraudulent sale

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Response to Jefferson23 (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 07:58 PM

2. Apparently, you don't travel much

 

Airlines will always sell you a ticket based on a good-faith agreement that the passenger has the legal right to enter that country. Upon check-in to any international flight, you will be required to show a visa (for countries that require them) or, in some cases, an onward ticket that shows you intend to leave that country (rules vary from country to country).

The reason for this is that airlines are bound by international agreement to provide a return flight to your point of origin if you are rejected entry into the country of destination. The agreement stipulates that all airlines provide this check BEFORE issuing a boarding pass.

As an American, try flying to Brazil, India, Bangladesh, China or Australia (to name a few) without a valid entry visa and you will not be allowed to board the plane -- even with a valid ticket. For that matter, try flying from ANY country to America if your name is on the no-fly list. You can certainly buy the ticket, but you will not be allowed to board.

The article is bollocks for claiming the passenger was ejected for being a "non-Jew". Israel is full of non-Jews, tourists, residents, and citizens and they enter by the hundreds every single day. The passenger was ejected because the airline had reason to believe (justified or not) that she would not be allowed entry upon arrival. That a French judge would issue such an uniformed decision doesn't surprise me in the least. The airline would be stupid for not taking this to an appeals court.

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #2)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 08:01 PM

3. I don't travel much? Who the hell are you referring to? The article reports what

transpired, the French prosecutor disagrees with your opinion. Considering his ability to take the case,
complain to him.

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Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #3)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 08:35 PM

4. I fly a lot and everything Holden said is true ,

You never had to show your passport to an airline ?

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Response to King_David (Reply #4)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 08:43 PM

5. You don't read well, do you?

Click on the link: *French prosecutors said the incident was a clear case of discrimination, AFP reported, while Air France said the passenger's name was on a list provided by Israel, and that they knew she would not be allowed into the country.

A number of pro-Palestinian activists were prevented from boarding Israel-bound flights on their way to the April protest due to the fact that their names appeared on the blacklist distributed by the Israeli government to a number of European airlines.

Must be a painful story for you...your question is irrelevant.

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Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #5)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:02 PM

6. Doesn't change facts ,

why would it be painful . It's common practice amongst all airlines and all countries.

It's only "discrimination " if The Jewish State is involved tho, that is what it's all about!

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Response to King_David (Reply #6)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:09 PM

7. I have news for you, the fact is the airline was fined.

You have no facts, but you can complain to the prosecutor.

Israel, always the victim..and always innocent.


The pro Palestinian protestor was vindicated, this is what appears to be painful for you.

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Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #7)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:18 PM

8. What's going to be painful is ...

 

... seeing the pro-Palestinian protestor seethe when this is overturned on appeal. The airline acted legally -- biased activist judges notwithstanding.

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #8)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:49 PM

10. Post the claim the airline is appealing, link it. n/t

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #8)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 11:12 PM

15. Maybe Karsenty will be willing to provide them

with his legal team

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Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #7)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:32 PM

12. The Jewish state has never won any popularity prizes ever

That's not news... This decision will be overturned in appeal.

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Response to King_David (Reply #12)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:45 PM

13. Israel is very popular particularly in the US, and particularly with Obama

and the incumbent Dems, as you've pointed out numerous times.
Seems that you, too, suffer from massive cognitive dissonance.

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Response to delrem (Reply #13)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:49 PM

14. In the USA

YESSSSSSS

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Response to King_David (Reply #12)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 11:37 PM

17. It will? When will that happen? Link where it is reported an appeal has been filed.

Occupation of another people will tend to make one unpopular.

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Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #17)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 11:50 PM

18. Yes the Jewish State was very popular prior to 1967 ? LOL

As popular as The Jews.



If Algeria introduced a resolution declaring that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions.

Abba Eban

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/abbaeban167935.html#xXW1VM4vbXVi9VWM.99

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Response to King_David (Reply #18)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 11:54 PM

19. You post that quote often...enjoy your disconnect from reality. n/t

on edit to add: I take it no appeal has been filed by Air France, thanks.

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Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #19)

Sat Apr 6, 2013, 01:06 AM

20. Since 1948 the substance of Abba Ebbens quote(s)

Have never got stale nor old!

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Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #7)

Sun Apr 7, 2013, 05:03 AM

36. Israel the victim?

Israel played no role in this event at any point.

Yet you're convinced we all are motivated by a desire to see Israel as ever innocent no matter what.

While apparently blind to your own tendency to find Israel guilty, even when they've nothing to do with a story.

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Response to Shaktimaan (Reply #36)

Sun Apr 7, 2013, 05:58 PM

37. You're confused I believe b/c you jumped into a conversation.



A number of pro-Palestinian activists were prevented from boarding Israel-bound flights on their way to the April protest due to the fact that their names appeared on the blacklist distributed by the Israeli government to a number of European airlines.

Who is, " we all " you're referring to?

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #2)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 11:14 PM

16. apparently you do not understand not every country is like the US

this happened in France

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #16)

Sat Apr 6, 2013, 03:19 AM

21. Doesn't matter if it happened in France or Bangladesh ...

 

... the agreement over visa verification is an International one -- between IATA Members -- and ratified by treaty. All countries that abide by the IATA Convention follow the same rules. Back when they used to issue ticket coupons, all those rules were printed on the ticket.

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #21)

Sat Apr 6, 2013, 06:35 AM

22. here's the part your ignoring

When she was already on the plane, an airline employee asked whether or not the nursing student had an Israeli passport. When she replied that she didn't, AFP reported, she was asked whether or not she was Jewish. When she answered no again, she was taken off the plane in Nice, southeastern France.


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Response to azurnoir (Reply #22)

Sat Apr 6, 2013, 06:53 AM

23. It sounds like the airline employee was "trying" be be accomodating...

 

... most people know that a Jew can enter Israel legally even without a visa -- the reason for which is simple. When Jews have been prosecuted in the past (especially in places like France) it would have been impossible for them to even get a visa to leave the country. For persecuted Jews, Israel is the "end-zone" where their persecution stops. The employee might have been looking for an excuse to let the passenger stay on the plane where the airline wouldn't be held responsible.

Once the airline determined that the passenger had no visa to visit Israel, and no chance of obtaining a visa upon arrival, they had no choice -- by law -- to remove her from the flight. Why this happened ON the plane instead of before boarding isn't answered in the article. I suspect the only thing of which Air France can be said to be guilty in this instance is Gallic inefficiency.

I've been on a few flights to Israel originating from countries outside the US -- and not one single time has an airline employee gone from passenger to passenger asking "are you Jewish?" and ejecting those who answer in the negative. Every plane that lands in Israel contains a sizable number of both Jews and non-Jews. To claim Air France has a policy of throwing people off of planes bound to Israel for not being Jewish is total bollocks.

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #23)

Sat Apr 6, 2013, 07:11 AM

24. In any event asking a passenger "are you Jewish" as an apparent

criteria for their being allowed to remain aboard a flight is discriminatory

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #24)

Sat Apr 6, 2013, 07:18 AM

25. No more than it would be if ...

 

... asking someone if they are an American-citizen while boarding a flight to the US is discriminatory ... it is an attempt to establish visa requirements.

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #25)

Sat Apr 6, 2013, 07:21 AM

26. stewardesses normally establish visa requirements

isn't that the job of a countries security agents on that countries home soil?

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #26)

Sat Apr 6, 2013, 07:36 AM

27. Have you not been paying attention?

 

I have explained -- on several previous posts -- that establishing valid visa eligibility is the duty of the airline the the ORIGIN of a flight according to IATA Regulations and nearly every airline on Earth comply with the IATA regulations (I can't be sure of Air Koryo, the official carrier of North Korea).

It is normally done by airline ground staff (who are not security personnel), but there is no law that says it can't be done by any airline staff.

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #27)

Sat Apr 6, 2013, 07:42 AM

28. so you feel that a flight attendent has the authority to remove someone from a plane based on their

religious/ethnic identity, fascinating

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #28)

Sat Apr 6, 2013, 07:47 AM

29. That isn't what happened ...

 

... and being deliberately obtuse about it doesn't change that.

But, I know how you feel about those of a "certain" ethnicity and I'm not going to change that. So, attribute all the evil motivations to this you choose.

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #29)

Sat Apr 6, 2013, 07:52 AM

30. once again from the OP and your accusation of antisemitism on my part is out of line

When she was already on the plane, an airline employee asked whether or not the nursing student had an Israeli passport. When she replied that she didn't, AFP reported, she was asked whether or not she was Jewish. When she answered no again, she was taken off the plane in Nice, southeastern France.

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #23)

Sat Apr 6, 2013, 11:19 PM

35. You don't travel much do you?

People from EU countries are exempt from having to obtain a tourist visa before visiting Israel.

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Response to Jefferson23 (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:33 PM

9. Welcome to Palestine initiative shows how the whole of Palestine is under siege.

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Response to delrem (Reply #9)

Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:52 PM

11. Thanks delrem.

**Can you imagine Israelis banned from European countries because they criticize European policies?

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Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #11)

Sat Apr 6, 2013, 05:50 PM

32. Plenty of people are banned from EU countries, the US, Canada and just about every country in the

World for similar and even less. Just google "banned from entering xxxxxxx" and it becomes obvious that it is common practice. The EU even has a special regulation allowing the banning of "undesirable persons" which I posted below.
Countries have a right to restrict entry to their country but it seems its only a problem for some people when Israel does it.



Ban on entering the United Kingdom
Lord Pearson of Rannoch and Baroness Cox, members of the House of Lords (the upper chamber of the British Parliament), invited Wilders to a 12 February 2009 showing of Fitna in the Palace of Westminster. Two days before the showing, Home Secretary Jacqui Smith banned Wilders from entering the territory of the United Kingdom, labelling him an "undesirable person". Entry was denied under EU law, and reportedly supported under regulation 19 of the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006, an EU law which allows a member state to refuse entry to individuals if they are regarded as constituting a threat to public policy, security or health. A Home Office spokesperson elaborated that "The Government opposes extremism in all its forms ... and that was the driving force behind tighter rules on exclusions for unacceptable behaviour that the Home Secretary announced in October last year"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geert_Wilders#Ban_on_entering_the_United_Kingdom



List of people banned from entering the United Kingdom
The Home Office, a United Kingdom government department, has, from August 2005 to 31 March 2009, excluded 101 individuals from the UK for having "engaged in unacceptable behaviour". Of those, 22 were excluded by then Home Secretary Jacqui Smith between 28 October 2008 and 31 March 2009. On 5 May 2009 Smith publicly "named and shamed" 16 of those individuals. As well as these individuals, other people are or have previously been banned from or refused entry into the United Kingdom.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_banned_from_entering_the_United_Kingdom




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_barred_or_excluded_from_the_United_States

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Response to Dick Dastardly (Reply #32)

Sat Apr 6, 2013, 05:53 PM

33. but she was kicked off of the flight in France not refused entry to Israel

and after being asked if she was Jewish

but keep spinning away

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #33)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 08:34 PM

39. You are right she was kicked off a flight in France but I was responding to a post and subthread

blaming Israel and falsely claiming only Israel bans people from entering the country for the reasons mentioned.

It's funny how you called my response to them spin as they were the ones who brought up the subject you called spin. Am I not supposed to respond to such posts?
It's even funnier that while you called a subject they brought up as me spinning, but did not call their posts spin and actually thanked them for an informative post. Why is this?

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Response to Dick Dastardly (Reply #39)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 01:17 AM

42. the post was asking someone to imagine the reverse of the situation described here

it was an what if situation not a factual one, and the poster did not claim it was only Israel hence my reply

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #33)

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 08:37 PM

40. If you read other papers Air France actually removed the passenger because she was on a list of

people who would be refused entry to Israel. Israel did nothing wrong, it was well within its rights to do so and while it is perfectly acceptable for Air France to abide by it, where it screwed up was in the way it did so and specifically by asking if the passenger was Jewish.

I am sure it will be overturned in appeal but I bet they are going to be more careful in the future.




Air France fined in pro-Palestinian activist case
In its defence, the French flagship carrier argued that it was only at the last minute that it had realised Ms Ankour was blacklisted by Israel.

The company said it had therefore asked her to leave - in line with an international convention that allowed airlines to refuse transporting passengers who it knew would not be accepted at the point of entry.

It seems the fault in law was for the company to have asked Ms Ankour about her ethnic origins and to have made this the apparent reason for her forced disembarkation, the BBC's Hugh Schofield in Paris reports.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22035316

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Response to Dick Dastardly (Reply #40)

Tue Apr 9, 2013, 12:34 AM

41. well the last sentence was pretty much what I've been saying

the problem was asking her if she was Jewish

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Response to Dick Dastardly (Reply #32)

Sat Apr 6, 2013, 06:18 PM

34. This is about Israeli control of ingress, egress, and regress to occupied Palestine. nt

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Response to Dick Dastardly (Reply #32)

Sun Apr 7, 2013, 06:03 PM

38. Not the same...I wish there was a transcript from the trial. But there is more than

enough information on the distinction between what you're claiming is relevant and
what is not. She was asked questions and when answered she had to get off in France.

See OP above.

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Response to delrem (Reply #9)

Sat Apr 6, 2013, 03:39 PM

31. Thank you very informative n/t

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