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Fri Feb 22, 2013, 12:44 PM

You’ll Never Guess Which Israelis Have Used the Term Apartheid to talk about Israel

This is posted from my Jewish Voice for Peace Newsletter concerning Hagel's mentioning of the word "Apartheid" and the smear campaign against him.

If you are so inclined, you can sign the petition here: http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/301/p/dia/action/public/?action_KEY=12613

You’ll Never Guess Which Israelis Have Used the Term Apartheid to talk about Israel

Former Foreign Ministry director-general ambassador to South Africa Alon Liel: “If you, President Obama, intend to come here for a courtesy visit - don’t come. Don’t come! We don’t need you here for a courtesy visit. You cannot come to an area that exhibits signs of apartheid and ignore them. That would simply be an unethical visit. You yourself know full well that Israel is standing at the apartheid cliff. If you don’t deal with this topic during your visit, the responsibility will at the end of the process also lie with you.” (2013)

Israeli Defense Minister (and former Prime Minister) Ehud Barak: "As long as in this territory west of the Jordan River there is only one political entity called Israel it is going to be either non-Jewish, or non-democratic. If this bloc of millions of Palestinians cannot vote, that will be an apartheid state." (2010)

Former Israeli Minister of Education Yossi Sarid: "What acts like apartheid, is run like apartheid and harasses like apartheid, is not a duck - it is apartheid… What should frighten us, however, is not the description of reality, but reality itself… The Palestinians are unfortunate because they have not produced a Nelson Mandela; the Israelis are unfortunate because they have not produced an F.W. de Klerk. "(2008)

Former Israeli Minister of Education Shulamit Aloni: "Jewish self-righteousness is taken for granted among ourselves to such an extent that we fail to see what’s right in front of our eyes. It’s simply inconceivable that the ultimate victims, the Jews, can carry out evil deeds. Nevertheless, the state of Israel practices its own, quite violent, form of Apartheid with the native Palestinian population." (2007)

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert: "If the day comes when the two-state solution collapses, and we face a South African-style struggle for equal voting rights (also for the Palestinians in the territories), then, as soon as that happens, the State of Israel is finished." (2007)

Israeli newspaper Haaretz editorial: "The de facto separation is today more similar to political apartheid than an occupation regime because of its constancy. One side - determined by national, not geographic association - includes people who have the right to choose and the freedom to move, and a growing economy. On the other side are people closed behind the walls surrounding their community, who have no right to vote, lack freedom of movement, and have no chance to plan their future. " (2007)

Former Israeli attorney general Michael Ben-Yair: " We enthusiastically chose to become a colonial society, ignoring international treaties, expropriating lands, transferring settlers from Israel to the occupied territories, engaging in theft and finding justification for all these activities. Passionately desiring to keep the occupied territories, we developed two judicial systems: one – progressive, liberal – in Israel; and the other – cruel, injurious – in the occupied territories. In effect, we established an apartheid regime in the occupied territories immediately following their capture. That oppressive regime exists to this day." (2002)

Israeli human rights group B’Tselem: "Israel has created in the Occupied Territories a regime of separation based on discrimination, applying two separate systems of law in the same area and basing the rights of individuals on their nationality. This regime … is reminiscent of distasteful regimes from the past such as the Apartheid regime in South Africa." (2002)

Former Israeli admiral and Knesset member Ami Ayalon: "Israel must decide quickly what sort of environment it wants to live in because the current model, which has some apartheid characteristics, is not compatible with Jewish principles." (2000)

David Ben-Gurion, first Prime Minister of Israel, (cited): "Israel, he said, better rid itself of the territories and their Arab population as soon as possible. If it did not Israel would soon become an Apartheid State." (1967 - cited in Hirsh Goodman, 2005)

19 replies, 1519 views

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 19 replies Author Time Post
Reply You’ll Never Guess Which Israelis Have Used the Term Apartheid to talk about Israel (Original post)
Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2013 OP
Jefferson23 Feb 2013 #1
R. Daneel Olivaw Feb 2013 #2
Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2013 #3
R. Daneel Olivaw Feb 2013 #5
azurnoir Feb 2013 #4
oberliner Mar 2013 #10
Israeli Mar 2013 #6
In_The_Wind Mar 2013 #7
Israeli Mar 2013 #8
In_The_Wind Mar 2013 #9
Violet_Crumble Mar 2013 #11
Fantastic Anarchist Mar 2013 #13
shira Mar 2013 #14
pelsar Mar 2013 #15
Fantastic Anarchist Mar 2013 #18
pelsar Mar 2013 #19
R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2013 #16
Solindsey Mar 2013 #12
pelsar Mar 2013 #17

Response to Fantastic Anarchist (Original post)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 02:18 PM

1. This is all set in one place, thank you very much.

Bookmarked and K&R.

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Response to Fantastic Anarchist (Original post)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 03:57 PM

2. You are behind the times.


The current meme is not apartheid, but China or Syria or Egypt or Lebanon or Jordan or any place else that doesn't have to directly implicate what Israel is: an apartheid state.

Once you get past those layers of the onion then there's the shrill anti-Semitic arguments, that Israel somehow is deserving of the land that the current West Bank occupies, jazz about chosen people, common deflections, uncommon deflections, poor comparisons, and then later there come the direct denials and smoke and mirrors.

Once there you magically find yourself back outside the onion to start all over again.

So you see, there is really no argument. There is only an onion.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 05:03 PM

3. I'm familiar with the tactics.

I've had them out ad nauseaum in the past. I've even been called a self-hating Jew.

It doesn't stress me at all.

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Response to Fantastic Anarchist (Reply #3)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 05:39 PM

5. That's kind of harsh to be called out like that.

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Response to Fantastic Anarchist (Original post)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 05:20 PM

4. I remember the flap over the title of Jimmy Carters book

looks like he is not alone in using the "A" word

Thank you for posting this

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #4)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 07:30 AM

10. The book is not written about Israel at all

President Carter:

"Most of the people that seem to be critical have not read the book, or they haven’t referred to anything inside Palestine, and the book is not written about Israel at all. I know that Israel is a wonderful democracy with equal treatment of all citizens whether Arab or Jew. And so I very carefully avoided talking about anything inside Israel."

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Response to Fantastic Anarchist (Original post)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 06:14 AM

6. thought you might be interested in this

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Response to Israeli (Reply #6)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 06:40 AM

7. Hello ~ Israeli. I hope you find all that you are looking for at DU.





In The Wind

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Response to In_The_Wind (Reply #7)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 07:03 AM

8. thanks for the welcome

I'm a Left winger, are there any other Left wing Israelis on this group ?

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Response to Israeli (Reply #8)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 07:10 AM

9. I'm sure they will say hello when they become aware that you have arrived.

Relax. You are among friends on the underground.
I thought the link you provided was awesome. Thank you.

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Response to Israeli (Reply #8)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 07:34 AM

11. I'm just a left wing Aussie...

Welcome to DU, Israeli. There's two Israelis that I know of who sometimes post here...

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Response to Israeli (Reply #8)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 02:25 PM

13. Welcome, Israeli.

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Response to Israeli (Reply #8)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 03:42 PM

14. Welcome, Israeli. Always good to have Israelis and/or Palestinians here. n/t

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Response to Israeli (Reply #8)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 04:32 PM

15. depends...

and israeli left winger can also be defined as a right winger.......

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Response to pelsar (Reply #15)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 05:32 PM

18. Please explain.

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Response to Fantastic Anarchist (Reply #18)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 06:06 PM

19. lets take the typical israeli lefty....

Last edited Mon Mar 4, 2013, 01:25 AM - Edit history (2)

one of those that go through a socialist youth group in high school, learns about social values, learns about responsibility for ones actions. This "lefty" also believes in self-determination for his people with a strong social/democratic base for the minorities in the same society. This young man also volunteers for the paratroopers as he also believes that defending ones country is part of his responsibility and not someone elses to do.

His duties will now take him to the west bank, where he will defined as an occupier, a war criminal, a human rights violator for being at a check post or participating in night raids. Later in his service he will be go to guard the Gaza border, where he will be subject to sniper attacks, mortar attacks and the occasional IED..still since gaza has been defined by many as a concentration camp, he is obviously one of the guards, which clearly can be defined as war criminal. One of those that are helping to 'starve the gazans (to some they are starving).

Now he may vote mertz, vote labor, believe in the socialist ideology, but he also understands what a failed Palestinian state can mean, and wants to prevent that from happening.

now if, when he finishes his service and comes here and defends his service, talk about Palestinian responsibilities or their actions and their attempts to kill him or other Palestinians he may be branded as one who hates all arabs. He will not understand and reject the PC mentality the pervades the far western left that also makes excuses for the "toy rockets" that hamas shoots or the "what choice do they have but to target civilians" or that he as a soldier, targeted Palestinians.....

if he protests or attempts to explain what actually happens, the hard choices, he will in fact be branded as a right winger by some

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Response to Israeli (Reply #8)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 04:53 PM

16. Welcome, Israeli. I'm a left winger, and realist, living in America.


You'll be able to tell which pegs are round and square soon enough.

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Response to Fantastic Anarchist (Original post)


Response to Fantastic Anarchist (Original post)

Sun Mar 3, 2013, 04:58 PM

17. whats your point?....

that israelis dont all speak in one singular voice?...that israelis have different opinions on what kind of state they have presently or will have if things dont change.

israel has a very vibrant democracy...with what is called "freedom of speech" its something that is defended by all, in israel, be they right or left. (and it includes insulting moses or allah, jesus and the spagetti monster)

whats in general is abhorrent to most israelis is the "groupthink" mentality (guess why) that demands that everyone must think, act, believe and talk the same.....(something many progressives have a hard time understanding)

that is the real sin of a society, when that is expected...hence i'm not sure what your point is with the list of opinions

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