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Tue Feb 12, 2013, 08:53 PM

Audio Reveals Brooklyn College Misled Public on Eviction of Jewish Students From BDS Event

The audio file makes plain that the school was falsely accusing the students, and/or greatly exaggerating the claims made by SJP members that the students were being disruptive throughout their time at the lecture. The file captures the first speaker, Judith Butler, and terminates at the ejection of the four students. At the 28:14 mark Melanie Goldberg can clearly be heard saying, “I’m not allowed to hold a pamphlet?” This appears to contradict the claim made by Brooklyn College that the students were simply asked to be quiet and did not comply, and one made by an SJP organizer that they were asked to quiet down and stop passing fliers between themselves before they were ejected. At the end of the audio file you can hear Goldberg saying, “This is an oppression of freedom of speech, this is an oppression…” no time before that, despite the fact that according to The Algemeiner’s source the recording device was positioned only two rows in front of the Jewish students and was able to clearly pick up the voice of Judith Butler several rows ahead, does it appear that any disturbance was being caused. In fact, the first time a voice is clearly audible besides that of Butler’s is when Melanie Goldberg asks about the pamphlet, 28 minutes into the event.

Yesterday CUNY Chancellor Matthew Goldstein issued a statement in which he said an investigation into the incident would commence. “There were reports that some said they were asked without cause to leave the event. If this were true, it was wrong and we need to understand exactly what the circumstances were. At the request of President Karen L. Gould, I have asked General Counsel and Senior Vice Chancellor for Legal Affairs Frederick P. Schaffer to quickly investigate these allegations. This investigation will be coordinated by CUNY’s Office of Legal Affairs, working with an independent consultant, and charged with reporting directly back to me,” Goldstein said.

From statements made today by Brooklyn College, it appears the school has backtracked somewhat from its earlier statements—statements that were given with the backing of anonymous school officials and the vice president of the school.

The school told The Algemeiner in a statement Tuesday that “Given the serious concerns raised by the students, President Gould has asked the university to conduct a thorough independent review of the college’s actions in order to ascertain all the facts. We stand by our previous statements that the college should be a place where all may express their views. If we learn that these students were denied that opportunity without cause, as they allege, the decision to have them removed will have been inappropriate and the college will issue a formal apology.”

http://www.algemeiner.com/2013/02/12/exclusive-audio-reveals-brooklyn-college-misled-public-on-eviction-of-jewish-students-from-bds-event-audio/

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Reply Audio Reveals Brooklyn College Misled Public on Eviction of Jewish Students From BDS Event (Original post)
oberliner Feb 2013 OP
King_David Feb 2013 #1
holdencaufield Feb 2013 #2
delrem Feb 2013 #3
King_David Feb 2013 #5
delrem Feb 2013 #8
King_David Feb 2013 #10
King_David Feb 2013 #15
King_David Feb 2013 #17
R. Daneel Olivaw Feb 2013 #4
King_David Feb 2013 #6
azurnoir Feb 2013 #7
King_David Feb 2013 #13
azurnoir Feb 2013 #19
R. Daneel Olivaw Feb 2013 #24
Dick Dastardly Feb 2013 #30
azurnoir Feb 2013 #32
delrem Feb 2013 #9
King_David Feb 2013 #11
delrem Feb 2013 #14
King_David Feb 2013 #16
R. Daneel Olivaw Feb 2013 #26
delrem Feb 2013 #29
R. Daneel Olivaw Feb 2013 #25
Dick Dastardly Feb 2013 #27
aranthus Feb 2013 #35
Dick Dastardly Feb 2013 #36
delrem Feb 2013 #37
oberliner Feb 2013 #38
delrem Feb 2013 #39
oberliner Feb 2013 #40
delrem Feb 2013 #41
Mosby Feb 2013 #43
R. Daneel Olivaw Feb 2013 #20
Dick Dastardly Feb 2013 #33
R. Daneel Olivaw Feb 2013 #34
delrem Feb 2013 #12
King_David Feb 2013 #18
delrem Feb 2013 #21
King_David Feb 2013 #22
delrem Feb 2013 #23
Dick Dastardly Feb 2013 #28
R. Daneel Olivaw Feb 2013 #31
shaayecanaan Feb 2013 #42
R. Daneel Olivaw Feb 2013 #44
shaayecanaan Feb 2013 #45

Response to oberliner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 10:15 PM

1. Looks like they will investigate,

I wonder what punishment the could levy ?

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Response to King_David (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 10:30 PM

2. None, of course ...

 

... BDS is very fashionable on campus these days.

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Response to King_David (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 10:40 PM

3. Maybe the punishment could be

that these four be required to give out their fecking pamphlets at the door, or at one of the tables set out inside for that purpose, like everyone else? Or that these four be required to utilize the open mike Q and A session to air their views, like everyone else? That seems in keeping with decorum.

On the other hand if Abe Foxman and those of like mind have their way perhaps careers can be destroyed, students can be expelled, and the actual content of the BDS debate as presented at the forum be totally ignored -- because no coherent counterclaims to the principles espoused by the BDS movement (as per J. Butler's speech) have to date been formulated.

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Response to delrem (Reply #3)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 11:01 PM

5. Such a big fuss was made of freedom of speech,

And rightly so.

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Response to King_David (Reply #5)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 11:09 PM

8. absolutely. and the speakers freely spoke. transcripts are freely available.

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Response to delrem (Reply #8)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 11:13 PM

10. They ejected 4 Jewish students and would not allow them to ask questions at the meetings microphone,

A public meeting sponsored by all the students political science department.


Shameful is what it is.


If not expulsion , suspension definitely.

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Response to delrem (Reply #3)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 11:30 PM

15. 'to utilize the open mike Q and A session ' HUH ? Is that a joke?

The pamphlets were on the Jewisg students' laps , and how could they 'utilize the open mike Q and A session '
if they were forcibly expelled from the hall?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113431133

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Response to delrem (Reply #3)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 11:36 PM

17. Really ?

'no coherent counterclaims to the principles espoused by the BDS movement '

The Zionist left would disagree with you :


'Why Liberal Zionists Won't Join BDS'

by Peter Beinart Feb 12, 2013 9:45 AM EST


Posted here ,Enjoy :

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113431122

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Response to King_David (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 10:49 PM

4. Strange that they would have audio only when most of the world

has smartphone video.

Perhaps they have the audio and video.


On edit: This is a great distraction from BDS.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #4)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 11:05 PM

6. Taking video would of been a distraction,

Clearly these Jewish students were denied their freedom of speech


One would expect this to happen in The New State Of Palestine,


http://www.democraticunderground.com/113431120


BUT it must NOT be tolerated in The USA.

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Response to King_David (Reply #6)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 11:08 PM

7. why recording was not only tolerated but captured with both audio and visual in Irvine

seems some here could have different standards when it comes to Muslim or Arab students

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #7)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 11:26 PM

13. The Jewish students were forcibly expelled for having pamphlets on their laps,


Just imagine what would of happened if they video recorded it....

a SWAT team no doubt !

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Response to King_David (Reply #13)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 11:52 PM

19. andf the Arab students were not only forcibly removed but arrested tried

and convicted

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Response to King_David (Reply #13)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 12:19 AM

24. The expulsion must have been so forceful


that it knocked the video right out of their smart phone.

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #7)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:08 AM

30. As you like to say. Look over there, look over there.

Anyway the better question is why dont the BDS supporters and event sponsers have video or even just audio to support their claims about the students?

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Response to Dick Dastardly (Reply #30)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:15 AM

32. well it seems some are pointing lol

it's almost amusing the attempted distraction from the obviously different standards here

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Response to King_David (Reply #6)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 11:10 PM

9. nobody was denied freedom of speech. the forum had a venue.

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Response to delrem (Reply #9)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 11:16 PM

11. Really ?



They did not allow the Jewish students to listen to them nor ask questions at the open mic, because the Jewish students were expelled.

Even in Canada that would be called denial of freedom of speech and if it happened at U of T , heads would roll.

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Response to King_David (Reply #11)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 11:29 PM

14. There were many Jewish and anti-BDS students in the audience and at the mike. n/t

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Response to delrem (Reply #14)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 11:32 PM

16. They thought they would get away with it,

But they could not expel them all , I guess...

The 'optics' would of been wrong

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Response to King_David (Reply #16)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 12:21 AM

26. Speculation on your part?

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Response to King_David (Reply #16)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:01 AM

29. oh c'mon, either you can do better than that or

you might decide to keep quiet.

Otherwise, you fail.

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Response to King_David (Reply #11)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 12:20 AM

25. Yet there were other Jewish people there.

What was the difference?

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Response to King_David (Reply #11)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 12:45 AM

27. They were not denied freedom of speech. There was no right to freedom of speech.

A private or NGO does not have to allow everyone a voice. They are allowed to restrict speech as much as they want just like DU or any other private forum. If it were the government on the other hand then it would be a denial of the right of freedom of speech.

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Response to Dick Dastardly (Reply #27)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:49 AM

35. Except that the event was sponsored by the PolySci department of the school,

which is a public institution. That was the reason for all of the fuss before the lecture. The concern was that a public school was paying for and lending its prestige to the lecture. Plus the school countered that concern by claiming that the event would promote discussion. Throwing people out of a private lecture may not deny them a right of free speech, but it sure puts the lie to the college's lame excuse for supporting the lecture in the first place.

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Response to aranthus (Reply #35)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 02:27 AM

36. I was not argueing whether it was right or wrong or its ethics. I just making the point that it

was not a violation of the right to free speech.

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Response to aranthus (Reply #35)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 02:32 AM

37. Maybe you should watch e.g. _5 Broken Cameras_.

And enlighten yourself about how there's more than the one POV provided by the IDF.

Or try to develop an argument for/agains't the views expressed at the forum.

Otherwise I think you're selling pure shit.

There was an open mike at the forum, and people with all viewpoints including anti-BDS were given the floor. These 4 martyrs-to-freedom were given an opportunity to play by the rules and they declined.
They said that they had all-important pamphlets to distribute, that for an unknown reason couldn't be distributed at the door or at a table provided for that purpose, or that couldn't be condensed for the Q&A. Then why don't they (or you) post a link to the contents of said pamphlets?
I don't see anyone here who's unwilling to discuss those contents in light of the messages heard at this BDS forum. Keeping to the facts of what was actually said. But I don't see any link to such contents - and I wonder why.

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Response to delrem (Reply #37)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 06:16 AM

38. That movie was co-directed by an Israeli - and received Israeli funding

Shouldn't you be boycotting it?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #38)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:30 AM

39. Don't be asinine.

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Response to delrem (Reply #39)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:38 AM

40. Please elaborate

The movie received Israeli funding and Israeli government backing.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #40)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:35 AM

41. Judith Butler:

"The point of the boycott, divestment and sanctions movement is to withdraw funds and support from major financial and cultural institutions that support the operations of the Israeli state and its military. The withdrawal of investments from companies that actively support the military or that build on occupied lands, the refusal to buy products that are made by companies on occupied lands, the withdrawal of funds from investment accounts that support any of these activities, a message that a growing number of people in the international community will not be complicit with the occupation. For this goal to be realized, it matters that there is a difference between those who carry Israeli passports and the state of Israel, since the boycott is directed only toward the latter. BDS focuses on state agencies and corporations that build machinery designed to destroy homes, that build military materiel that targets populations, that profit from the occupation, that are situated illegally on Palestinian lands, to name a few."

Please don't rebut with a phrase taken out of context.

On edit.
Here's a link to Guy Davidi's (the Israeli co-director's) statement
http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/oscar-nominated-5-broken-cameras-israeli-or-palestinian-film#statement

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Response to delrem (Reply #41)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 07:37 PM

43. do you think Sodastream should be boycotted?

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Response to King_David (Reply #6)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 11:56 PM

20. Oh, come on. That is so lame. LOL!


There have been vidphone posts of everything. What did these students have, a cassette player?

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #20)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:25 AM

33. If there are vidphone posts of everything then why dont the BDS supporters and event sponsors have

video supporting their contention about the students being disruptive.

As I said before a small microcassete or microchip recorder is very common in college to record lectures.


What is lame are all the excuses used to dismiss the recording in this thread.

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Response to Dick Dastardly (Reply #33)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:27 AM

34. The expelled students were the ones with the equiptment. Ask them.


What were they using: 8-track tape?

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #4)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 11:23 PM

12. "On edit: This is a great distraction from BDS."

Yes, and that's the whole purpose of this tempest in the tiniest teacup, serenaded by the world's tiniest violin.

In contrast Butler's statements are substantial, e.g.
"The Boycott Divestment and Sanctions movement is, in fact, a non-violent movement; it seeks to use established legal means to achieve its goals; and it is, interestingly enough, the largest Palestinian civic movement at this time. That means that the largest Palestinian civic movement is a non-violent one that justifies its actions through recourse to international law. Further, I want to underscore that this is also a movement whose stated core principles include the opposition to every form of racism, including both state-sponsored racism and anti-Semitism. ."

and

"The point of the boycott, divestment and sanctions movement is to withdraw funds and support from major financial and cultural institutions that support the operations of the Israeli state and its military. The withdrawal of investments from companies that actively support the military or that build on occupied lands, the refusal to buy products that are made by companies on occupied lands, the withdrawal of funds from investment accounts that support any of these activities, a message that a growing number of people in the international community will not be complicit with the occupation. For this goal to be realized, it matters that there is a difference between those who carry Israeli passports and the state of Israel, since the boycott is directed only toward the latter. BDS focuses on state agencies and corporations that build machinery designed to destroy homes, that build military materiel that targets populations, that profit from the occupation, that are situated illegally on Palestinian lands, to name a few."

and

"Let us consider, then, go back to the right of return, which constitutes the controversial third prong of the BDS platform. The law of return is extended to all of us who are Jewish who live in the diaspora, which means that were it not for my politics, I too would be eligible to become a citizen of that state. At the same time, Palestinians in need of the right of return are denied the same rights? If someone answers that “Jewish demographic advantage” must be maintained, one can query whether Jewish demographic advantage is policy that can ever be reconciled with democratic principles. If one responds to that with “the Jews will only be safe if they retain their majority status,” the response has to be that any state will surely engender an opposition movement when it seeks to maintain a permanent and disenfranchised minority within its borders, fails to offer reparation or return to a population driven from their lands and homes, keeps over four million people under occupation without rights of mobility, due process and political self-determination, and another 1.6 million under siege in Gaza, rationing of food, administering unemployment, blocking building materials to restore bombed homes and institutions, intensifying vulnerability to military bombardment resulting in widespread injury and death."

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Response to King_David (Reply #18)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 12:03 AM

21. If that is what it is to be one, then so-called "Liberal Zionists" aren't up to scratch.

I've read the article and it (very badly) elides on the first two points of BDS, and absolutely denies RoR on purely racist (called "nationalist") grounds.

In 21st century political discourse terms like 'liberal' and 'conservative' have become so bastardized as to lose any trace of meaning. In fact I'm automatically suspicious when encountering them, and I redouble my resolution to discard all the bs rhetoric and look only at what is argued w.r.t. fundamental issues. I rate this article an "F".

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Response to delrem (Reply #21)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 12:10 AM

22. That is a great endorsement for the article,

Thanks

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Response to King_David (Reply #22)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 12:14 AM

23. My pleasure.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #4)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:00 AM

28. Its not strange at all. Recording lectures with a small microchip or microcassette voice recorder is

very common in college. Using such a small voice recorder that could be kept in ones pocket is easier and less disruptive than holding up a videophone.



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Response to Dick Dastardly (Reply #28)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:09 AM

31. You don't have to hold up anything.

Methinks there is more afoot.

I've been in University recently, and they use video.

There is also a difference between a College or University course, and a protest lecture.

Perhaps I am wrong.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #31)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 07:05 PM

42. The participants were not entitled to take video recordings...

actually, they were not entitled to take recordings at all, so even an audio recording such as this was not strictly permitted.

It seems as though the ejected students were passing papers between themselves (you can hear the persistent rustle of papers throughout), and talking quietly amongst themselves.

If the students were ejected for this then frankly it was a bit precious on the part of the event organisers, particularly when they must have been mindful of the controversy that it would cause.

It is still hypocrisy of the highest order that pro-Israel groups would be so concerned for the students who were "silenced" (SILENCED!!!) at an event that most of those same groups were determined to prevent happening in the first place.

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Response to shaayecanaan (Reply #42)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:46 PM

44. One may hear papers, but as to if they were being passed

Amongst themselves or to others remains to be seen.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #44)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:29 PM

45. Amongst themselves, it seems...

http://mondoweiss.net/2013/02/distorts-advocates-brooklyn.html

According to Sarah Aly, a student volunteer with Students for Justice in Palestine at Brooklyn College who witnessed the mini-controversy, the students were passing out anti-BDS flyers in the middle of the event, while Judith Butler was talking–contra the claim that they had flyers “in their laps.” They were also talking during the event. When a student volunteer asked them to stop passing out the flyers and to quiet down, the Hillel-affiliated activists refused. That’s when a volunteer asked a security guard to remove them. Two other witnesses who preferred not to have their names published also confirmed this story to me. So yes, these students were removed, and you can debate whether that was the right move or not. But it wasn’t about them getting kicked out because they were “pro-Israel” or had flyers “in their laps.”

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