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Tue Feb 5, 2013, 05:14 PM

Standing with Israel, the kid everybody loves to hate

‘Rina Ne’eman, what do you think of this?”

A friend, well-known for his love of all things provocative, posted, yet again, an article highly critical of Israel on his Facebook wall, tagging me so as to guarantee that I would have to respond.

Truth be told, to a large degree I have put myself in that position, having assumed a role as a self-styled ambassador of and advocate for Israel in my professional community of translators, which spans the entire globe. Does that make me a thoughtless parrot of AIPAC? Does it mean that I blindly agree with everything that Israeli government does? Am I proud, without exception, of everything that happens in Israel? I hardly think so.

There is so much in Israel that infuriates me, so much that I would like to be different. So much that I, myself, am critical of. But I think that holds true for every informed, intelligent citizen of every country on the planet with even a modicum of independent thinking.

Why do I unflaggingly advocate for Israel? Is it purely tribal loyalty or instinct? What makes me feel compelled to join in a social media discussion where we are denigrated and besmirched to a degree that I know I can’t possibly have an impact on the view of the participants, whose minds have already been made up?

much more.....
http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/standing-with-israel-or-prove-that-your-mothers-not-a-whore/

I think I prefer the original title (read the hyperlink).

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Response to shira (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 05:41 PM

1. More like the bully everyone hates.

And justifiably so.

I especially liked the part where she likens her tragic experience of being bullied to Israel's current treatment in the eyes of the world. Is she trying to be funny? Laughing loads here.

The contempt the good people of this world have for Israel is completely and totally earned.

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Response to Solindsey (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 07:15 PM

2. Hate is correct. Based on lies, half-truths, demonization, dehumanization.....

....and double-standards. But what else to expect from a UN that is dominated and run by Libya, Saudi Arabia, Burma, N.Korea, Syria, Cuba, China, Russia......? Or others in the media, academia, & government institutions hellbent on supporting such an abomination?

An old, old hate.

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Response to shira (Reply #2)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 07:47 PM

3. Lets feel sorry for the Bully ... Nope, I got nothing.

Demonization... while Israel is holding people at siege and dropping bombs or conducting night raids without just cause? Dehumanization... while Israel destroys homes that don't belong to them from a people they are OCCUPYING by FORCE? It's a police state, where people disappear without trace and are later labeled "terrorists" without any evidence or trial. A police state where families are terrorized in their homes and on the streets.

And you want the world to side with people who do shit like that? These events aren't lies. Especially when people like you don't DENY they happen, but ramble on trying desperately to JUSTIFY those events as some twisted form of "self-defense". Always failing too. lol

It's hate. The purest kind. The same feeling anyone would have looking at such gross injustice committed by oppressors.


BTW

Where the heck is all this UN stuff coming from? So random. But it's a funny world where you live that such powerhouse nations like Libya, North Korea, Burma and Cuba both dominate and run the UN. They wield so much power and influence! How did we all miss that besides you shira?

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Response to Solindsey (Reply #3)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 08:29 PM

4. The UN comes up from your "eyes of the world"...

The rest of your post is nonsense and absolute bullshit. No Israelis would take you seriously as they'd probably recommend a strait jacket for you.

Tell me, do Israelis have human rights? What do you think of > 12,000 rockets coming out of Gaza in the last decade alone? Due to an extreme, genocidal ideology that both Hamas and the PLO share? What do you think of all the bus attacks, suicide bombings, nazi-like hate of Jews...? BTW, it started before 1948. Before the occupation and settlements.... Just so you don't get any ideas about using those as excuses and justification.

Why doesn't any of that factor into your 'criticism'?

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Response to shira (Reply #4)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 10:09 PM

5. Normal every day people > Not the UN you stupidly obsess over.

You spend most of your time here ranting and raving and letting your nutty paranoia run wild. Are you stressed out? Go have a nap.

Israelis have human rights. What kind of lame question is that? It does factor in my "criticism" because unlike you, I'm not asslicking Israel and only condemning Hamas. The extremists on both sides deserve LOTS of criticism.

When are YOU going to condemn Israel's violence and racism against Palestinians? Or are all those dead bodies after bombings and demolished Palestinian homes... just more bullshit to you?


"We need to flatten entire neighborhoods in Gaza. Flatten all of Gaza. The Americans didn’t stop with Hiroshima – the Japanese weren’t surrendering fast enough, so they hit Nagasaki, too. There should be no electricity in Gaza, no gasoline or moving vehicles, nothing. Then they’d really call for a ceasefire."

...

The desire to prevent harm to innocent civilians in Gaza will ultimately lead to harming the truly innocent: the residents of southern Israel. The residents of Gaza are not innocent, they elected Hamas. The Gazans aren’t hostages; they chose this freely, and must live with the consequences.

- Gilad Sharon, son of former Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon



There are morons and extremists on BOTH sides. Or are you goiing to whip out the poor-me victim card and blame Hamas for the above nazi-like hate of Arabs?



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Response to Solindsey (Reply #5)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:44 AM

6. Gilad Sharon doesn't run Israel. His policy is not Israeli policy. Then there's Hamas....

What you just quoted Gilad Sharon saying is mainstream discourse in Gaza. It's extreme fringe lunacy in Israel. The 2 situations are incomparable, no matter how much you wish to falsely equate them.

When Gilad Sharon runs for office and he's elected to lead the GOI primarily due to his extreme platform, and once elected his government acts like Hamas, then the 2 situations will be the same and equal blame will be fair.

Israelis have human rights. What kind of lame question is that? It does factor in my "criticism"


I wouldn't know. You never bring Israelis' human rights up. You accuse Israel of terrorizing Palestinians for no reason (not even defensive) and certainly not in a way that's more precise and more humane than any other western power in the world.

because unlike you, I'm not asslicking Israel and only condemning Hamas. The extremists on both sides deserve LOTS of criticism.


You're only condemning Israel. And when you do so, it's always OTT, hyperbolic, disingenuous, and demonizing. When you bring up Hamas, it's always a one-liner. Something like 1% compared to 99% vs. Israel. Just as you did in the quote about extremists on both sides. You didn't even mention Hamas while doing so.

You make mountains out of molehills WRT Israel and molehills out of mountains WRT Hamas. Why can't you criticize both sides the same way since you claim both are equally to blame?

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Response to shira (Reply #6)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 08:08 AM

7. Israel is run by a RIGHT-WING Zionist government. Why are you acting so brand new?

Israeli right-wing government already ACTS like Hamas, only FAR more deadlier. They are terrorizing the Palestinians and ruling over them like a POLICE STATE.

The extreme fringe lunacy you speak of RUNS Israel. Wake up!

So you finally admit it.

You accuse Israel of terrorizing Palestinians for no reason (not even defensive).


What REASON is there to terrorize human beings? Sickening.

It's common sense and blindingly obvious what Hamas is and what they do is completely STUPID and wrong in every way. There is no need to keep repeating that when there is NOBODY around stating the opposite. However, people like you shira, constantly trying to justify Israel's terrorism activity... that deserve redress. You just admitted Israel is terrorizing Palestinians and you pulled out "defence" are your poor ass excuse.

I find it disgusting how fine you are with Palestinian people suffering. Do they not matter to you? Judging by your lack of empathy, I would guess No. Yet you have the audacity to feel like Israel is being bullied? LOL

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Response to Solindsey (Reply #7)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 04:15 PM

8. When you state that Israel is no better than Hamas and that what it does....

....is not self-defense, but terror with no military objective, there is nowhere to go with this conversation.

You'd be laughed out of Israel for your views.

And BTW, Shimon Peres and Ehud Barak were also in Netanyahu's coalition. They're not rightwing.

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Response to shira (Reply #8)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:26 PM

9. Still no sympathy for Palestinians? No a single word of it.

Are you kidding me? When did Hamas ever shoot and kill the mentally ill? Israel did on Nov 5th 2012. Where is the self-defence there? Killing indiscriminately is habitual with Israel: The body count doesn't lie.

Hamas has never used chemical warfare like Israel has.

I'm sure if they had the capability, Hamas would do exactly the same shit Israel is doing right now. Does that chill your almost microscopic little heart?

You'd be laughed at period.

Are those two people, one of whom is leaving politics soon, suppose to amount to anything significant? It's funny that you keep trying.

Israel as they currently behave, will forever be hated. Get used to it.

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Response to Solindsey (Reply #9)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 07:03 PM

10. Do you realize that the IDF has proven to be the most careful WRT civilians...

...than any other nation in the history of warfare?

Testifying before the United Nations, Col. Richard Kemp, a British commander, stated that:

Mr. President, based on my knowledge and experience, I can say this: During Operation Cast Lead, the Israeli Defence Forces did more to safeguard the rights of civilians in a combat zone than any other army in the history of warfare. Israel did so while facing an enemy that deliberately positioned its military capability behind the human shield of the civilian population... The truth is that the IDF took extraordinary measures to give Gaza civilians notice of targeted areas, dropping over 2 million leaflets, and making over 100,000 phone calls. Many missions that could have taken out Hamas military capability were aborted to prevent civilian casualties. During the conflict, the IDF allowed huge amounts of humanitarian aid into Gaza. To deliver aid virtually into your enemy's hands is, to the military tactician, normally quite unthinkable. But the IDF took on those risks.


Colonel Richard Kemp, former Commander of British Forces in Afghanistan, spoke in 2011 about Israeli operations in the Gaza War. He said that a study published by the United Nations showed "that the ratio of civilian to combatant deaths in Gaza was by far the lowest in any asymmetric conflict in the history of warfare." He stated that this ratio was less than 1:1, and compared it favorably to the estimated ratios in NATO operations in Afghanistan (3:1), western campaigns in Iraq and Kosovo (believed to be 4:1), and the conflicts in Chechnya and Serbia (much higher than 4:1, according to anecdotal evidence). Kemp argued that the low ratio was achieved through unprecedented measures by the IDF to minimize civilian casualties, which included providing warnings to the population via telephone calls, radio broadcasts and leaflets, as well as granting pilots the discretion to abort a strike if they perceived too great a risk of civilian casualties. He also stated that the civilian casualties that did occur could be seen in light of Hamas' tactical use of Gazan civilians "as human shields, to hide behind, to stand between Israeli forces and their own fighters" and strategic use of them for exploitation of their deaths in the media.

The UN estimate that there has been an average three-to-one ratio of civilian to combatant deaths in such conflicts worldwide. Three civilians for every combatant killed. That is the estimated ratio in Afghanistan: three to one. In Iraq, and in Kosovo, it was worse: the ratio is believed to be four-to-one. Anecdotal evidence suggests the ratios were very much higher in Chechnya and Serbia. In Gaza, it was less than one-to-one.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualty_ratio

I'll assume you were just ignorant of these facts and not blatantly misrepresenting Israel as a terror state. Your views were probably based on ridiculously biased anti-Israel propaganda sites.

So what do you think now?

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