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Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:51 PM

US denounces Israel for continued settlement activity, questions commitment to peace

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"In unusually rare and blunt criticism of its top Mideast ally, the Obama administration on Tuesday slammed Israel for continuing to announce new settlement construction on land claimed by the Palestinians.

The State Department accused Israel of engaging in a “pattern of provocative action” that calls into question statements from Israeli leaders that they are committed to peace. Spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said settlement activity only puts the goal of peace “further at risk” and urged both Israel and the Palestinians to halt all provocations and take steps to revive long-stalled peace talks.

“We are deeply disappointed that Israel insists on continuing this pattern of provocative action,” Nuland told reporters. “These repeated announcements and plans of new construction run counter to the cause of peace. Israel’s leaders continually say that they support a path towards a two-state solution, yet these actions only put that goal further at risk.”

The administration’s questioning of the Israeli leadership’s stated commitment to peace was unexpected, if not unprecedented, and appeared to take Washington’s longstanding opposition to settlements to a new level. However, it was not clear if the tough new words would be matched by actions."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/us-denounces-israel-for-continued-settlement-activity-questions-commitment-to-peace/2012/12/18/0801ba86-4951-11e2-8af9-9b50cb4605a7_story.html

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Reply US denounces Israel for continued settlement activity, questions commitment to peace (Original post)
Scurrilous Dec 2012 OP
oberliner Dec 2012 #1
4dsc Dec 2012 #2
holdencaufield Dec 2012 #5
Scootaloo Dec 2012 #9
holdencaufield Dec 2012 #11
Scootaloo Dec 2012 #13
holdencaufield Dec 2012 #14
Scootaloo Dec 2012 #19
holdencaufield Dec 2012 #20
Scootaloo Dec 2012 #23
Scootaloo Dec 2012 #3
holdencaufield Dec 2012 #4
azurnoir Dec 2012 #7
Scootaloo Dec 2012 #8
holdencaufield Dec 2012 #10
Scootaloo Dec 2012 #12
holdencaufield Dec 2012 #15
Scootaloo Dec 2012 #18
holdencaufield Dec 2012 #21
Scootaloo Dec 2012 #22
Violet_Crumble Dec 2012 #31
geek tragedy Dec 2012 #6
azurnoir Dec 2012 #16
King_David Dec 2012 #17
azurnoir Dec 2012 #24
King_David Dec 2012 #25
azurnoir Dec 2012 #26
oberliner Dec 2012 #28
King_David Dec 2012 #30
Violet_Crumble Dec 2012 #32
King_David Dec 2012 #33
Violet_Crumble Dec 2012 #34
King_David Dec 2012 #35
Violet_Crumble Dec 2012 #36
Scootaloo Dec 2012 #27
oberliner Dec 2012 #29
Purveyor Dec 2012 #37

Response to Scurrilous (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:03 PM

1. Thank you, President Obama

Hopefully they will get the message.

Elections coming soon over there.

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Response to Scurrilous (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:16 PM

2. Israel and peace is an oxmoron

Israel is not interested in peace and only wants to continue expanding its territories.

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Response to 4dsc (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 09:05 AM

5. Must explain they they unilaterally disengaged from Gaza ...

 

... to expand more territory

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #5)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 03:45 PM

9. "Disengaged"?

Yeah that must be what that big ol' exclusion zone is about. You know, the one that extends a kilometer and a half into Gaza from all borders, which is basically a free-fire zone for the Israeli kids along the border? Also there's that whole naval blockade that fires on fishermen... And the regular bombing campaigns...

Israel is disengaged from Gaza, sure. Also the US never touched Laos.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 04:01 PM

11. Pop Quiz ...

 

... number of Jews in Gaza?

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #11)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 04:15 PM

13. Irrelevant to the facts of occupation, Holden

A large swath of the land of Gaza remains under Israeli military guns, as do the territorial waters. That land is effectively unavailable for use by Gazans, because of the risk of being shot. Neve Dekalim and Katif might be history, but the occupation remains.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #13)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 04:30 PM

14. Yes .. facts are irrelevant ...

 

... when you believe a place is occupied by people who aren't there (that's quite a magic trick).

As for land effectively unavailable ... maybe using that land as a missile base to attack Jewish civilians has a little something to do with that? Ya think?

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:49 AM

19. Yeah, I think you need to understand the concept of "military occupation"

Like how the US military was occupying broad swaths of both Iraq and Afghanistan, without actually having men on the ground there? If you exercise military force over another people's territory, you are occupying it.

Rockets or no, the land is under occupation.

Interestingly it doesn't seem like it's done much to curb said rockets, either. But the same could be said for much of Israel's policy towards Gaza. Oh well, like world power, like client state; the US has a funny habit of perpetuating failed policy just because it's current policy, too... Just ask Cuba.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #19)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:00 AM

20. Allow me to explain

 

occupied past participle, past tense of oc·cu·py (Verb)

1. Reside or have one's place of business in (a building).
2. Fill or take up (a space or time).


There isn't a single Jew / Israeli residing or having there place of business in Gaza nor do they fill or take up any space in Gaza. So, by definition, not occupied. If you're going to make up your own definitions for words then don't expect the rest of the world to accept them -- I'll stick with Merriam Webster, thank you.

As for Israeli attacking Gaza in retaliation for missile attacks, apparently, you think that because Hamas has total control of Gaza they should not also be subject to any repercussions for that they do outside of Gaza. Retaliatory strikes against Gaza do not equal occupation.

As to your spurious examples -- Afghanistan is in fact occupied because there are US/coalition soldiers on the ground there. Cuba is not in fact occupied -- unless you count US tourists.


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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #20)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:14 AM

23. You take Merriam-Webster, I'll take international laws of war.

As for Israeli attacking Gaza in retaliation for missile attacks, apparently, you think that because Hamas has total control of Gaza they should not also be subject to any repercussions for that they do outside of Gaza.


I said the exclusion zone doesn't seem to be doing much about those attacks. Nor for that matter do bombing campaigns.

Afghanistan is in fact occupied because there are US/coalition soldiers on the ground there.


In some parts, not others. The coalition forces exert military power over regions that do not have an actual troop presence, however, with air capability, long-range weaponry, and the ability and willingness to move troops in. Again, learn the meaning of military occupation.

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Response to Scurrilous (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 12:28 AM

3. Denounces, questions, never acts

The US has been "questioning Israel's commitment to peace" over its settlement expansion since the fucking nineteen-seventies when they were colonizing Sinai. I think the question has been thoroughly answered. The new question is, how is the US going to handle the situation? Use an extra frowny-face emoticon in the next email exchange with the embassy? What, really, what?

if you're not going to find the spine to do something, then you might as well not say anything.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 09:04 AM

4. How many settlers are colonizing the Sinai today?

 

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 02:18 PM

7. How much water and arable is there in Sinai?

and how much of an actual military threat to Israel are the Palestinians compared to Egypt at the time the Camp David accords were signed?

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 03:42 PM

8. The point is, it's been ongoing, Holden

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #8)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 04:00 PM

10. The point is ...

 

... Israel holds SIGNIFICANTLY less land now than it did in '67. Not exactly in keeping with the "blood-thirsty", "land-stealing", colonialist Zionists meme.

Kind of like that genocide that Israel is inflicting on the Palestinians which has had the effect of trebling the Palestinian population. The anti-genocide.

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #10)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 04:10 PM

12. Wow. Look at all that shit you just conjured from nowhere.

Go ahead and take the time you need to froth about irrelevant nonsense. I'll wait until you're capable of intelligent speech again. Don't worry, my calender is open 'til Februrary.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #12)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 04:32 PM

15. Conjured out of nowhere?

 

All those descriptions of "Zionists" have been used right here on DU -- recently. But, I know how people like to look the other way when "Zionists" are insulted.

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:42 AM

18. I thought we were talking about Israel, not Zionists on DU?

Like I said, I have time. Go ahead and get it all together, man.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #18)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:02 AM

21. Zionists -- regardless of location --

 

are regularly insulted and vilified on DU. Which seems to be acceptable as long as the "Z-word" is used in place of the "J-word".

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #21)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:06 AM

22. Ah huh.

Any other subject changes you want to cram in there while you've got the floor?

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #21)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 03:18 AM

31. Actually, yr the only one going on about Zionists that I can see...

There was a recent one doing it, but they got nuked. You were doing it long before they arrived and will be doing it long after they're gone...

Instead of peppering threads with multiple instances of 'Zionist', and then accusing random people of using it themselves all the time, how about you try to focus on what's actually being said to you and address that?

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Response to Scurrilous (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 01:56 PM

6. Oooooh, another sternly worded letter to go along with our next welfare check

to Israel.

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Response to Scurrilous (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:08 PM

16. lol because as it states in the OP

Despite the strong rhetoric, Nuland said the United States did not believe pursuing condemnation of Israel at the U.N. Security Council would be “helpful” in resurrecting the stalled peace process.

more on that fact

Representatives of the 14 council members stepped to the microphone outside the chamber after their monthly Mideast briefing Wednesday to denounce the Israeli settlement plans, which they warned is threatening a two-state peace settlement with the Palestinians. The council president said they did so because efforts to get all 15 members to agree on a resolution or statement had failed, almost certainly because of US opposition.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4322272,00.html

so while we'll whine unhelpful we will oppose doing anything about it

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Response to Scurrilous (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 11:08 PM

17. Good on Obama

You agree with Obama or Netanyahu ?

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Response to King_David (Reply #17)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 03:57 PM

24. which one do you agree with?

seeing as how despite words uttered as Obama himself has also said there is little light between the US and Israel and IMO his actions seem to confirm that

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #24)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:17 PM

25. Strange question

My post is 100% unambiguous , that I support President Obama.

I do wish the OP would enlighten us on his position though .

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Response to King_David (Reply #25)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:40 PM

26. is it okay then however the OP very very rarely comments

in any manner except to post OP's

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #26)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 06:06 PM

28. And "thumbs up"

We do see those from time to time.

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #26)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 07:35 PM

30. No harm in attempting a conversation nt

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Response to King_David (Reply #30)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 03:26 AM

32. He's got you on ignore n/t

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #32)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 03:36 AM

33. I wasn't sure..

How can you tell that ... So I don't waste my time in friendly banter?

( and if true he's missing out on some great posts LOL)

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Response to King_David (Reply #33)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 03:50 AM

34. I only know because he told me...

One of the things about ignore I don't like is that because I don't know who's got me on ignore (and I've picked up a handful of people ignoring me according to my transparency page), I could be wasting my breath replying to them. But unless people tell other DUers who they're ignoring, they don't have any idea...

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #34)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 03:55 AM

35. I don't ignore anyone .. I feel like I would be missing out

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Response to King_David (Reply #35)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:07 AM

36. I've grudgingly got one on ignore...

And that was a case of me being happy to miss out on what they were saying, as it was really nasty and weird.

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Response to King_David (Reply #17)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:46 PM

27. Either way gets the same result

As I pointed out, the US talks a good fight on the issue. Sometimes. If the stars are aligned. But never actually takes any steps, or even threatens to take steps.

Palestinians approach the UN, we threaten to cut off the two million we give them annually. Israel expands existing settlements and plans new ones, and we frown really hard.

President Obama, this; is not an effective tool in our foreign policy

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #27)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 06:07 PM

29. He nominated Hagel for Secetary of Defense

That should send a message.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #29)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:53 AM

37. Not yet according to my research this morning. eom

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