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Sat Dec 8, 2012, 09:58 AM

Thousands gather in Gaza for Hamas rally and Meshaal speech

Tens of thousands of people have gathered to attend a rally in the Gaza Strip to mark the 25th anniversary of the Palestinian Islamist group Hamas.

Hamas political leader Khaled Meshaal gave a fiery speech during his first ever visit to the territory.

He said he would never recognise Israel, and insisted Palestinians would never cede any part of their land.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20649583

Incidentally, he's the "moderate" Hamas leader.

32 replies, 2453 views

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Reply Thousands gather in Gaza for Hamas rally and Meshaal speech (Original post)
oberliner Dec 2012 OP
sellitman Dec 2012 #1
Jefferson23 Dec 2012 #2
oberliner Dec 2012 #8
Jefferson23 Dec 2012 #3
oberliner Dec 2012 #5
Jefferson23 Dec 2012 #7
oberliner Dec 2012 #10
Jefferson23 Dec 2012 #14
oberliner Dec 2012 #17
Ken Burch Dec 2012 #25
oberliner Dec 2012 #29
Ken Burch Dec 2012 #30
bemildred Dec 2012 #4
oberliner Dec 2012 #6
bemildred Dec 2012 #9
oberliner Dec 2012 #11
bemildred Dec 2012 #13
oberliner Dec 2012 #18
Fozzledick Dec 2012 #12
bemildred Dec 2012 #16
oberliner Dec 2012 #15
holdencaufield Dec 2012 #21
oberliner Dec 2012 #24
holdencaufield Dec 2012 #27
aranthus Dec 2012 #19
holdencaufield Dec 2012 #20
Fozzledick Dec 2012 #22
shira Dec 2012 #23
kayecy Dec 2012 #26
holdencaufield Dec 2012 #28
kayecy Dec 2012 #31
holdencaufield Dec 2012 #32

Response to oberliner (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 10:12 AM

1. But it's Israel's fault.....

No matter what....

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 10:23 AM

2. From your OP:

Tens of thousands of Gazans have made their way to the rally at the al-Qatiba complex west of Gaza City to hear the speech by Mr Meshaal.

Ahead of that, a masked spokesman for Hamas's military wing, the Ezzedine al-Qassam Brigades, told the crowd: "We will cut the hand that extends in aggression against our people and leaders."

As long as Palestine is ours and Palestine is the land of Arabism and Islam, we can never recognise the legitimacy of Israel's occupation of it," he told supporters.

"There is no legitimacy for occupation. Hence, there is no legitimacy for Israel, however long time lasts."

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Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:35 AM

8. Terrifying

All of Israel is occupied territory for their ilk.

The entirety of the West Bank, including East Jerusalem could be turned over 100 percent to the Palestinians with every single settlement completely dismantled and the "resistance" would still continue.

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 10:27 AM

3. Hamas' Meshaal vows to 'continue resistance'

Statehood will not be "fruit of negotiations" with Israel, leader of Palestinian group says during first visit to Gaza.

Khaled Meshaal, the Hamas leader in exile, has rejected any concessions over a future Palestine state at a rally marking the 25th anniversary of the armed Palestinian group.

More than 100,000 Palestinians gathered in the Gaza Strip on Saturday to hear him speak for the first time in 45 years in the Palestinian enclave.

"Resistance is the right way to recover our rights, as well as all forms of struggle -- political, diplomatic, legal and popular, but all are senseless without resistance."

- Khaled Meshaal

"Palestine is our land and nation from the sea to the river, from north to south, and we cannot cede an inch or any part of it," he said.

"We fight Zionists, not Jews. We fight whoever occupied our land, regardless of religion ... Statehood will be the fruit of resistance, not negotiations," Meshaal said to cheering fans.

He said the group looked towards the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO) as a symbol of Palestinian unity and a "reference" for all Palestinian people. Hamas does not belong to the PLO, but Meshaal said a year ago that it and
other factions were "on the path to joining" it.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/12/20121284378161786.html

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Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:32 AM

5. Scary stuff

"From the river to the sea" is alive and well apparently.

No chance for peace as long as these guys are in charge.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #5)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:34 AM

7. lol, ok. n/t

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Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #7)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:48 AM

10. Hard to laugh at 100,000 people cheering "resistance" over "negotiations"

Not sure on what planet this concept would be amusing to any progressively minded person.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:53 AM

14. Your simplistic approach to the OP you posted and your follow up responses are

what I find amusing.

It is of no consequence to me that you find my responses to fall short of a 'progressively minded person'...none
at all.

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Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #14)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:54 AM

17. Likewise

Hopefully others can read the exchange and get a better sense of where each of us is coming from, if anyone cares.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:27 AM

25. Same thing with Likud

THEIR charter commits them to a position of absolute opposition to the creation of a Palestinian state next to Israel. They, TOO, want land "from the river to the sea".

Neither leadership is innocent on this point.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #25)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 07:19 AM

29. This is not about charters

I am talking about a statement made two days ago by the leader of Hamas.

The Hamas leader literally said to a cheering crowd that all of Palestine will be liberated, including all of what is now Israel, using the phrase "from the river to the sea" to emphasize the point.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #29)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 10:08 AM

30. The Hamas charter often gets invoked as well.

And Netanyahu has devoted much of his career(and at least TWO books)to his opposition to a Palestinian state, in like with the Likud Charter-as well as being willing, on many occasions, to play to the "Eretz Yisroel" crowd, which is just as bad as Meshal's comments. I denounce both of them for their rigidity and the ugliness of their tactics.

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:12 AM

4. It's like they don't know they are the bad guys.

Somebody make sure they have the right script.

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Response to bemildred (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:33 AM

6. The bad guys always think they are the good guys

Look at what is going on in Syria for another example.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #6)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:44 AM

9. Everybody always thinks they are the good guys, collectively speaking.

And they are all wrong.

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Response to bemildred (Reply #9)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:49 AM

11. Democrats are the good guys, Republicans are the bad guys

At least on that we can all agree.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #11)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:53 AM

13. OK. I guess I'm just not in the mood to argue today.

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Response to bemildred (Reply #13)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:15 PM

18. That's why I posted something we all agree on here

Always nice to remember there is some common ground uniting DUers in spite of differences on the I/P issues!

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Response to bemildred (Reply #9)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:52 AM

12. Yeah, both sides are bad.

So blame Israel.

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Response to Fozzledick (Reply #12)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:54 AM

16. Nah, I got you guys to do that for me. I don't have to say anything.

And it's still like I said something.

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:53 AM

15. "We will free Jerusalem inch by inch, stone by stone. Israel has no right to be in Jerusalem.

Another choice highlight from the speech that I wanted to share (sorry for replying to my own post).

The irony of that Mehsal quotation should be evident to all.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #15)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 03:00 PM

21. "The irony of that Mehsal quotation should be evident to all. "

 

Unfortunately -- it's not. There are those here who wouldn't see the irony in the Palestinian position if it sat on their face and started to wriggle.

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #21)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 05:06 PM

24. Do people not know Jerusalem's relationship with Israel and Jewish people?

I cannot imagine.

Do people not know what happened to the Jewish holy sites when Jerusalem was controlled by Jordan, for instance?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #24)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 05:08 AM

27. They know ...

 

... and do not care. Only Palestinian Arabs (in their mind) have any tie to the land. Jews (according to their meme) are colonials who have only been in the region for a few decades.

Helen Thomas Syndrome

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 02:08 PM

19. This is why Israel has to be forced to withdraw from the West Bank.

Like most democracies, Israel will not respond effectively to an existential threat until the knife is at the throat. Right now, Israel doesn't believe that Meshal is really the voice of Palestinians. Israel believes that the Palestinians can be bought off with a state, or else induced to either live with the status quo or abandon Palestine. Nonsense. In order for Israel to realize the truth, Israel has to withdraw from the West Bank and allow a Palestinian state. Only when Israel is attacked after making peace will it be unarguable to Israelis that Hamas' uncompromising stand represents the majority Palestinian view, and that they can't be bought off, driven off, or made peace with. Of course, if Israel withdraws and peace actually breaks out permanently, so much the better.

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 02:58 PM

20. Such a brave fighter ...

 

... urging his followers to resist and become martyrs while he visits every few years from his safe haven in Qatar (when he thinks its safe).

He's an inspiration to macro-managers everywhere.

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 03:23 PM

22. THIS is why we can't have peace.

All other excuses are just diversions.

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Response to Fozzledick (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 04:25 PM

23. SHHHHH! That's not how the narrative goes. It's a mistranslation! n/t

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:35 AM

26. Anyone who has survived an assassination attempt.......

Anyone who has survived an assassination attempt by his enemy can hardly be expected to talk like a pacifist.

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Response to kayecy (Reply #26)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 05:10 AM

28. By that logic ...

 

... Israelis, who are under constant attack for seven decades, can hardly be blamed for taking a less than conciliatory stance towards those who seek their destruction.

And yet ...

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #28)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 10:38 AM

31. By the same logic, the indigenous Palestininas who lost their right.......

By the same logic, the indigenous Palestinians who lost their right to self-determination by Zionist design, and have been dominated by Zionists for the last 100 years can hardly be blamed for resisting that domination.


It is always interesting to see how far back Israelis chose to go in showing that they were "under constant attack".........There were almost no attacks on palestinian Jews or settlers prior to 1900........So what changed everything?

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Response to kayecy (Reply #31)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 03:03 PM

32. But you don't know your history ...

 

... it wasn't, as the meme goes, the wicked, Zionist Jews who took self-determination from the Palestinian Arabs. It was their Arab brothers.

It was the Arab League (which had no Palestinian members) who rejected partition. It was Jordan and Egypt who took away the land that was meant for them to build their state. It remains the rest of the Arab World -- along with their useful facilitators in the West -- who continue to feed them with stories about their eventual victory if they just fire off enough rockets at Israeli civilians.

So, it seems like your friends are blaming the wrong people for their plight. The Palestinian people have self-determination in Gaza -- have had for 7 years -- and they've used it to elect a bunch of thugs and turn their new country into a missile base for attacking Jewish civilians.

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