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Thu Dec 6, 2012, 07:52 PM

'Mahmoud' can't get table at an Israeli eatery, but 'Tamir' can

'Mahmoud' can't get table at an Israeli eatery, but 'Tamir' can

<snip>

Sama called the restaurant minutes later, and succeeded in making a reservation for two, for "Michal," at the same time and date. Sama says she later learned the same thing had happened to other acquaintances.

Maisa Grabali, a resident of Jaffa, said that after her sister, Manar, had tried to make a reservation at Soho for two under her own name and was told there was no room, she called back and succeeded in making reservations for two, at the same time, for "Anat."

Safouri posted the story on his Facebook page Thursday and received numerous responses as friends shared his story across the social media network. "This is the first time we've reached a level of disappointment that forces us to share this with all of you," he wrote. "It's important for us to note that the food in the restaurant is terrific, but their racist attitude is shameful."

Bar Cohen, a Holon resident who trained to be a hostess at the restaurant, told Haaretz there were specific instructions to politely refuse reservations from Arabs. "They said, 'OK, when someone calls and you have to answer the phone, what do you say?' And I answered, 'Hi, you've reached Soho, this is Bar.' And they said, 'No. First you have to ask, 'To whom do I have the pleasure of speaking?'"

Cohen said her trainer made it clear what that question was for. "'You're asking because you want his name, to hear if he's an Arab or not,' she said. And I looked at her and asked, 'Why is that relevant?' And she said, 'What do you mean, why is it relevant? You know we're one of the most successful restaurants in the country, and we don't want to ruin our good name. If people see Arabs here, they will leave the restaurant. It's happened to us more than once.'

"At the end of the day, they called me to assign shifts and I told the shift manager that this was a racist restaurant, that they should be ashamed of themselves and I didn't want to work there," said Cohen.

Many users posted comments on Soho's own Facebook page, where the page administrator wrote on Saturday, "Since the issue is indeed important to us, both as a company and in order to maintain the great relationship we have with our guests of all nationalities, we will respond later on and things will come to light. Meanwhile, we are enjoying the exposure and the interaction on our page."

Despite two calls to Soho by Haaretz Saturday, there was no response from the restaurant's management.

</snip>

If true, this is disgusting.

93 replies, 6759 views

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Reply 'Mahmoud' can't get table at an Israeli eatery, but 'Tamir' can (Original post)
Fantastic Anarchist Dec 2012 OP
denverdoc Dec 2012 #1
regnaD kciN Dec 2012 #5
King_David Dec 2012 #8
geek tragedy Dec 2012 #12
King_David Dec 2012 #13
shira Dec 2012 #17
Riftaxe Dec 2012 #80
Fantastic Anarchist Dec 2012 #19
King_David Dec 2012 #28
Fantastic Anarchist Dec 2012 #29
Ken Burch Dec 2012 #60
King_David Dec 2012 #64
King_David Dec 2012 #6
Fantastic Anarchist Dec 2012 #20
King_David Dec 2012 #27
Fantastic Anarchist Dec 2012 #30
Ken Burch Dec 2012 #61
King_David Dec 2012 #63
GitRDun Dec 2012 #2
shaayecanaan Dec 2012 #3
Fantastic Anarchist Dec 2012 #21
geek tragedy Dec 2012 #4
King_David Dec 2012 #7
geek tragedy Dec 2012 #9
King_David Dec 2012 #10
geek tragedy Dec 2012 #11
King_David Dec 2012 #14
geek tragedy Dec 2012 #15
kayecy Dec 2012 #16
Fantastic Anarchist Dec 2012 #22
riverbendviewgal Dec 2012 #26
mysuzuki2 Dec 2012 #36
King_David Dec 2012 #47
mysuzuki2 Dec 2012 #48
King_David Dec 2012 #49
shira Dec 2012 #18
Fantastic Anarchist Dec 2012 #23
shira Dec 2012 #25
cali Dec 2012 #24
geek tragedy Dec 2012 #31
King_David Dec 2012 #32
geek tragedy Dec 2012 #33
King_David Dec 2012 #35
geek tragedy Dec 2012 #37
King_David Dec 2012 #39
geek tragedy Dec 2012 #42
King_David Dec 2012 #43
geek tragedy Dec 2012 #44
King_David Dec 2012 #45
intaglio Dec 2012 #81
cali Dec 2012 #34
geek tragedy Dec 2012 #38
cali Dec 2012 #40
geek tragedy Dec 2012 #41
Mosby Dec 2012 #46
Scootaloo Dec 2012 #50
geek tragedy Dec 2012 #52
King_David Dec 2012 #54
geek tragedy Dec 2012 #55
King_David Dec 2012 #57
Scootaloo Dec 2012 #66
King_David Dec 2012 #67
Scootaloo Dec 2012 #68
King_David Dec 2012 #69
Scootaloo Dec 2012 #73
Behind the Aegis Dec 2012 #70
Scootaloo Dec 2012 #72
Behind the Aegis Dec 2012 #74
Scootaloo Dec 2012 #75
Behind the Aegis Dec 2012 #77
Scootaloo Dec 2012 #78
Behind the Aegis Dec 2012 #79
Posteritatis Dec 2012 #51
geek tragedy Dec 2012 #53
hrmjustin Dec 2012 #56
Posteritatis Dec 2012 #58
LineLineLineReply .
hrmjustin Dec 2012 #59
Hayabusa Dec 2012 #65
kayecy Dec 2012 #76
hrmjustin Dec 2012 #82
kayecy Dec 2012 #85
hrmjustin Dec 2012 #86
azurnoir Dec 2012 #87
hrmjustin Dec 2012 #88
Ken Burch Dec 2012 #62
King_David Dec 2012 #71
Ken Burch Dec 2012 #83
King_David Dec 2012 #84
Scurrilous Dec 2012 #89
King_David Dec 2012 #90
oberliner Dec 2012 #91
King_David Dec 2012 #92
oberliner Dec 2012 #93

Response to Fantastic Anarchist (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 07:59 PM

1. sad

If true.. The percecuted have become the persecutors.

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Response to denverdoc (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 09:26 PM

5. It's taken this long to notice...?



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Response to regnaD kciN (Reply #5)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 09:35 PM

8. This Jewish girl ?

"At the end of the day, they called me to assign shifts and I told the shift manager that this was a racist restaurant, that they should be ashamed of themselves and I didn't want to work there," said Cohen.


You see she is JEWISH....this girl...

And your post is DISGUSTING !!!

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Response to King_David (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 11:19 PM

12. Wow, you located one non-racist Israeli. Amazing! nt

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #12)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 11:28 PM

13. Your seething man,

The Tribe is really getting under your skin,and your getting so worked up about it. You should nip it in the bud,cos it seems to be consuming you....

6 Million of us Jews in the USA have Brothers,Sisters,Parents,Cousins,Uncles,Aunts,Grandparents,Daughters,Sons,Friends in Israel.

And those are the people your seething about.

And your being offensive and it's just not worth it.

I do not want to put any more energy into this , your generalizations have become Juvenile and offensive to us .

tra la...

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Response to King_David (Reply #13)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 03:02 AM

17. Their masks slip, eventually. n/t

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Response to shira (Reply #17)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 04:36 AM

80. nt

replied to wrong post

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Response to King_David (Reply #13)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 06:18 AM

19. Um, I wanted to illustrate that there are those of us who are progressive.

This is much a story about someone who stood up to racism as it is about racism itself.

My apologies, sir, if you missed that.

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Response to Fantastic Anarchist (Reply #19)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:48 AM

28. Was not addressed to you but geek tragedy post 12

Your having problems following your own thread .



Yo were right to post this story of these disgusting restaurant owners.

The replies to your post were disgusting and in of themselves bigoted.

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Response to King_David (Reply #28)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:52 AM

29. My apologies. Yes, I'm a bit faschnikered and got confused.

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Response to King_David (Reply #8)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:17 PM

60. Obviously, there are plenty of non-racist Israelis. The young woman deserves praise for her stand.

That doesn't mean what this restaurant is doing doesn't matter. And it doesn't mean there isn't a problem with prejudice against Arabs within Israel.

YOU should find "Soho"s policy on this unacceptable. Do you?

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #60)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:38 PM

64. Try read my post 28

And it's not obvious to everybody ... Some extremely biased person with an extreme dislike for certain people ,on this thread says all Israeli Jews are racist and he has the "data".


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Response to denverdoc (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 09:33 PM

6. Your post is just as bad as the Restaurant owners,

"At the end of the day, they called me to assign shifts and I told the shift manager that this was a racist restaurant, that they should be ashamed of themselves and I didn't want to work there," said Cohen.


You see she is JEWISH....this girl...

And your post is DISGUSTING !!!

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Response to King_David (Reply #6)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 06:20 AM

20. What?

What do you see that's wrong?

Does it make you angry? It should! Don't fuck with the messenger.

Oh, what does her being Jewish have to do with anything?

I'm Jewish, and I don't tolerate racism in any form. What's wrong with that?

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Response to Fantastic Anarchist (Reply #20)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:39 AM

27. It wasn't addressed to you but disgusting posts 1 ,4 and 5

You were right to post this story , racism must be exposed , the restaurant owners were disgusting .

The responses in the thread generalizing this to all Jews ( eg :"the persecuted") were disgusting . Hence my point that it was a Jewish girl that stood up and quit because she was having none of it.

It's important that she's Jewish because of the sick generalization's made here in reply to your post.

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Response to King_David (Reply #27)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:54 AM

30. Again, my apologies.

I didn't follow the whole thread.

I usually read, not discuss.

I'm a bit hammered, and feisty, too. I'm sorry about that.

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Response to King_David (Reply #27)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:21 PM

61. Actually, nobody said "all Jews"...or even necessarily "all Israelis".

You may have read more into those post than there was.

Antisemitism is horrible(like all other hatreds)and needs to be fought. But this may have just been one of those "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" moments.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #61)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:33 PM

63. Yep yep

When he said

"If true.. The percecuted have become the persecutors."

He meant Santa and Bigfoot ...

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Response to Fantastic Anarchist (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 08:47 PM

2. And we wonder how a guy like Netanyahu

gets to keep running things over there....truly disgusting. Sadly, my guess is the reverse may be true in Arab establishments over there. No one seems to tolerate each other much.

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Response to GitRDun (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 08:57 PM

3. Nah

that's like a black taxi driver refusing a ride from white passengers. He'd go broke.

Arabs are about 20% of the Israeli population and have generally less purchasing power than average. Ergo, its economically viable to discriminate against them. An Arab hummus joint however would have a hard time turning away Jews, if they want to keep paying the rent.

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Response to GitRDun (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 06:22 AM

21. It's true and it's sad.

I don't have the answers, but I'm going to try not to contribute to the problem.

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Response to Fantastic Anarchist (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 09:00 PM

4. They don't share our values, and never will.

Israel has become 1950's Arkansas.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 09:34 PM

7. How about this Jewish girl???

"At the end of the day, they called me to assign shifts and I told the shift manager that this was a racist restaurant, that they should be ashamed of themselves and I didn't want to work there," said Cohen.


You see she is JEWISH....this girl...

And your generalizations in your post are DISGUSTING !!!

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Response to King_David (Reply #7)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 09:47 PM

9. Not everyone in 1950's Arkansas was a racist.

Virtually every poll done on the subject shows Jewish Israelis to be seriously racist against Arabs.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 10:30 PM

10. Your too much man nt

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Response to King_David (Reply #10)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 11:16 PM

11. For your reading pleasure:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Israel#Polls

The Association for Civil Rights in Israel (ACRI) published reports documenting racism in Israel, and the 2007 report suggested that anti-Arab racism in the country was increasing. One analysis of the report summarized it thus: "Over two-thirds Israeli teens believe Arabs to be less intelligent, uncultured and violent. Over a third of Israeli teens fear Arabs all together....The report becomes even grimmer, citing the ACRI's racism poll, taken in March 2007, in which 50% of Israelis taking part said they would not live in the same building as Arabs, will not befriend, or let their children befriend Arabs and would not let Arabs into their homes." The 2008 report from ACRI says the trend of increasing racism is continuing. An Israeli minister charged the poll as biased and not credible. The Israeli government spokesman responded that the Israeli government was "committed to fighting racism whenever it raises it ugly head and is committed to full equality to all Israeli citizens, irrespective of ethnicity, creed or background, as defined by our declaration of independence". Isi Leibler of the Jerusalem Center for Public affairs argues that Israeli Jews are troubled by "increasingly hostile, even treasonable outbursts by Israeli Arabs against the state" while it is at war with neighboring countries,
Another 2007 report, by the Center Against Racism, also found hostility against Arabs was on the rise. Among its findings it reported that 75%of Israeli Jews don't approve of Arabs and Jews sharing apartment buildings; that over half of Jews wouldn't want to have an Arab boss and that marrying an Arab amounts to "national treason"; and that 55% of the sample thought Arabs should be kept separate from Jews in entertainment sites. Half wanted the Israeli government to encourage Israeli Arabs to emigrate. About 40% believed Arab citizens should have their voting rights removed.
A March 2010 poll by Tel Aviv University found that 49.5% of Israeli Jewish high school students believe Israeli Arabs should not be entitled to the same rights as Jews in Israel. 56% believe Arabs should not be eligible to the Knesset, the Israeli parliament.
An October 2010 poll by the Dahaf polling agency found that 36% of Israeli Jews favor eliminating voting rights for non-Jews. In recent polling (2003–2009) between 42% and 56% of Israelis agreed that "Israeli Arabs suffer from discrimination as opposed to Jewish citizens;" 80% of Israeli Arabs agreed with that statement in 2009.
In the media
Some authors, such as David Hirsi and Ayala Emmet, have criticized the Israeli media for portraying Arabs negatively. The Israeli media has been described as "racist" in its portrayals of Israeli-Arabs and Palestinians by Israeli-Arab Nabilia Espanioly


With the ultra-orthodox Jewish Taliban multiplying at an astonishing rate, it will only get worse.

There's a reason Bibi's approval numbers go up every time he insults President Obama--and you get one guess what it is.

As I said, they do not and will never share our values.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #11)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 11:44 PM

14. 'the ultra-orthodox Jewish Taliban '

are not Zionists .

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Response to King_David (Reply #14)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 12:00 AM

15. They are part of Bibi's governing coalition. nt

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #15)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 01:16 AM

16. Just for my education........

Which ultra-orthodox groups are considered Zionist, Neutral or anti-Zionist?

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Response to kayecy (Reply #16)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 06:24 AM

22. I'm not going to speak for him ...

But there are many of each!

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #11)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:27 AM

26. my Israeli friend is worried

About the Israeli Arabs because they are having more babies than the Israeli Jews .. if Israel remains a one state it will have a problem.

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Response to King_David (Reply #7)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 11:35 AM

36. overreact much?

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Response to mysuzuki2 (Reply #36)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 01:04 PM

47. Overeact to 'The percecuted have become the persecutors' ??

WTF?

So 2 racist restaurant owners translate into all Jews becoming like wha? Kossaks? Nazis?


I fucking undereacted ....if anything.

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Response to King_David (Reply #47)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 04:32 PM

48. Lighten up, Francis.

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Response to mysuzuki2 (Reply #48)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 04:38 PM

49. Bye bye

Was nice talking to you.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #4)


Response to shira (Reply #18)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 06:28 AM

23. I'm sorry ...

I'm left-wing, and though I don't expect to put others on the spot, what makes me right-wing for posting a story about racism, and commenting that it's "disgusting?"

I've read your post, shira. Please read mine. I'll put my credentials against yours and feel confident that I'm morally okay.

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Response to Fantastic Anarchist (Reply #23)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 06:58 AM

25. That question was for geektragedy. n/t

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 06:51 AM

24. "our values"

you mean the values of the racist emails and pics that republican officials have been sending out over the last few years- like the one of the front lawn of the White House as a watermelon patch? "our values" as in the massive droning attacks? "our values" as in the invasion and occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan? I could go on and on but what's the point? You are wearing blinders when you talk of "our values", sweetie.

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Response to cali (Reply #24)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:38 AM

31. Such figures are discredited outside the GOP base here.

In Israel, they get cabinet appointments.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #31)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 10:50 AM

32. You are obsessed,and it shows,

And out of control.

Your not displaying any sign of progressiveness here.

Your values as displayed on this thread have nothing in common with us and you right the majority do not share them with you , that's why Obama was re-elected thank G-d.

Your generalizations are disgusting and thankfully nobody else is defending them.

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Response to King_David (Reply #32)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 11:22 AM

33. Let's produce some quotes from the Israeli cabinet--their executive branch.

(note: their foreign minister Avigdor Lieberman's racism is well known, so no need to rehash his life's work)


Ariel Atias, Minister of Housing and Construction

On 2 July 2009, it was reported that Atias had called for the segregation of Israel's Arab population from Jewish Israelis, saying that achieving it was "a national duty... populations that should not mix are spreading... I don't think that it is appropriate to live together".




Eli Mishai, Minister of the Interior:

(African immigrants bring) a range of diseases such as hepatitis, measles, tuberculosis and AIDS.


Muslims that arrive here do not even believe that this country belongs to us, to the white man.


The goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages. Only then will Israel be calm for forty years.




We must blow Gaza back to the Middle Ages, destroying all the infrastructure including roads and water.


Yitzak Aharonovich, minister of internal security:

Aharonovich told an undercover police detective, who apologized for being untidy while meeting the minister in Tel Aviv's central bus station, that he looked as dirty as an “Araboosh” a Hebrew slur roughly meaning “little Arab”


Yuval Steinitz, Minister of Finance:

We are fighting the regime in Gaza that does its utmost to kill our citizens and destroy our schools and our colleges. So I don’t think we should allow students from Gaza to go anywhere. Gaza is under siege, and rightly so, and it is up to the Gazans to change the regime or its behavior


Moshe Ya'alon, Deputy Prime Minister:

The Palestinian threat harbours cancer-like attributes that have to be severed. There are all kinds of solutions to cancer. Some say it's necessary to amputate organs but at the moment I am applying chemotherapy


Also, pals around with people like Pam Geller.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Yaalon.jpg

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #33)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 11:28 AM

35. You weren't talking about the Israeli government here , pal

You were fucking generalizing to all Israeli Jews.

Re-read this thread and your disgusting generalizations .

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Response to King_David (Reply #35)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 11:43 AM

37. I have data on my side. What's your proof?

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/poll-half-of-israeli-high-schoolers-oppose-equal-rights-for-arabs-1.264564

Nearly half of Israel's high school students do not believe that Israeli-Arabs are entitled to the same rights as Jews in Israel, according to the results of a new survey released yesterday. The same poll revealed that more than half the students would deny Arabs the right to be elected to the Knesset.

The survey, which was administered to teenagers at various Israeli high schools, also found that close to half of all respondents - 48 percent - said that they would refuse orders to evacuate outposts and settlements in the Palestinian territories.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/23/israeli-poll-majority-apartheid-policies

Three out of four are in favour of segregated roads for Israelis and Palestinians in the West Bank, and 58% believe Israel already practises apartheid against Palestinians, the poll found.

A third want Arab citizens within Israel to be banned from voting in elections to the country's parliament. Almost six out of 10 say Jews should be given preference to Arabs in government jobs, 49% say Jewish citizens should be treated better than Arabs, 42% would not want to live in the same building as Arabs and the same number do not want their children going to school with Arabs.


They do not share our values.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #37)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 12:00 PM

39. Your obsessed buddy

And it's ugly .

Who is this " our" ? Speak for yourself...

Your generalizations about Jews in Israel disgust most people's values.

I think very few people share bigoted values .

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Response to King_David (Reply #39)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 12:05 PM

42. Are the polls published in Haaretz anti-semitic?

Sorry the data demonstrates an unpleasant reality.

Maybe you can consult Dean Chambers who can unskew them to show that racial prejudice is not common in Israeli society.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #42)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 12:13 PM

43. I'm not even reading your "data"

Can't take anyone seriously who has posted such generalizations about Israeli Jews as you have. Your obsession is clear , your supporting data is irrelevant .( I don't even read it anymore )

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Response to King_David (Reply #43)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 12:15 PM

44. Signs that someone has lost an argument:

"I'm not going to look at your data."

Thank you for conceding the point.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #44)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 12:51 PM

45. Yep keep telling yourself that

There was no argument .. Your generalizations about Jews Israeli or otherwise betray you.

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Response to King_David (Reply #45)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 04:57 AM

81. I gather from your posts you will not read anything that conflicts with your world view

Ha'aretz is a good source as is the Guardian but you flat out say you won't read the figures.

What would you call someone like that?

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #31)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 11:25 AM

34. uh, grab a clue... or at least a wee bit of information

It's the administration directing drone attacks. The House is held by right wingers. The admin is directing the horrible war on terror.

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Response to cali (Reply #34)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 11:45 AM

38. Wait, Obama's a racist for using drones?

I'm talking about actual, honest-to-goodness racism and open support for discrimination based on race/ethnicity.

Donald Trump would fit right in with Bibi's cabinet.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #38)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 12:00 PM

40. no, honey. Do try to keep up.

YOU were the one that brought up values. duh.

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Response to cali (Reply #40)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 12:03 PM

41. American values are equality under the law, democracy, equal protection,

no class system based on race, religion, or ethnicity, embracing immigrants, etc.

They are American values, but not Israeli ones.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #41)


Response to geek tragedy (Reply #41)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 05:21 PM

50. Uh... That's the professed ideal...

But the reality of practice is different.

On the issue of race, immigrants, and minority religions, the United States still sucks.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #50)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 05:36 PM

52. Very much imperfect, but much further along than Israel, and going in

the right direction, again unlike Israel.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #52)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 05:55 PM

54. LGBT community would disagree with you ,



Thankfully your views on Israel are totally rejected by my party (Democrat ) Representatives - Democrats in Congress and My President whom I voted for.

Your views are far more radical fringe and would be unacceptable by any candidate or rep.

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Response to King_David (Reply #54)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 06:01 PM

55. Our party does not give a rat's ass about how Israel treats Arabs.

Our national party, quite frankly, doesn't place an iota of worth on the dignity and lives of Palestinians.

So, it's not that they reject such findings, they just don't care.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #55)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 06:22 PM

57. Publicize it,

And ask your Democrat Reps to link to your posts here in DU?

Ha ha ha .. As if any would ever .. Ha ha ha..

I crack myself up

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Response to King_David (Reply #54)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:53 AM

66. Most GLBT people I know don't think bigotry of any sort is acceptable

Your mileage must vary.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #66)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 01:02 AM

67. about the USA being less progressive with respect to LGBT rights and acceptance than Israel?

really?

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Response to King_David (Reply #67)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 01:10 AM

68. Israel does not allow same-sex marriages

I would say the two nations have general parity, with the United States ahead by a nose.

My point was that most GLBT people I know don't go "got mine so fuck you" as you seem to be doing.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #68)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 01:20 AM

69. Israeli law recognizes same-sex marriages performed elsewhere(does the USA? State law means fuckall)

Israeli law recognizes same-sex marriages performed elsewhere. It is the only country in the Middle East and all of Asia to do so. It does not, however, allow same-sex couples to marry on Israeli soil. Civil marriage doesn't exist in Israel for heterosexual couples, either, (except where both spouses do not belong to any of the recognized religious communities in the country) and therefore only a marriage sanctioned by religious authorities can take place within Israel. (This restriction forces not only gay couples, but also all mixed-religion heterosexual couples and any person who wishes a non religious marriage, to marry outside the country.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Israel#Recognition_of_same-sex_relationships

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Response to King_David (Reply #69)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 02:00 AM

73. See my response to BtA

And I wouldn't think that marriage having a religious requirement is especially progressive, but, meh.

You're skirting the point, of course, where you are using Israel's nice record on gay rights issues to obfuscate their rather less-nice record on race issues. One does not cancel the other, Dave.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #68)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 01:21 AM

70. You are incorrect about the US being ahead by a nose.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory

The big thing, marriage, while Israel doesn't allow it in the country, foreign marriages are legal and recognized. Marriages in the US aren't even recognized from state to state and certainly not recognized when foreign. Also, there is no federal protection. Also, same-sex adoption is another major issue. It is protected in Israel, in the US we are at the mercy of the state in which we reside. For us, moving to another state could cost us our family.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #70)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 01:57 AM

72. "By a nose" implies "very barely."

There are US states more progressive than Israel on this. And there are US states less progressive on the issue. It's hard to make a clear call, when Israel lacks that sort of division to it.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #72)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 02:05 AM

74. Actually, it isn't hard to make a clear call.

You compare the US to Israel, not to individual states. That is why the US is not ahead, even "barely."

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #74)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 02:16 AM

75. I don't think we're going to see eye-to-eye on this, BtA

I think that the progress of individual states does carry some weight in the judging, as this places pressure on other states and the national government as a whole. It's of course not a gigantic thing to argue over, as neither of us are saying either nation is a trrible place to be a gay person (At least, I'm not getting that from you).

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #75)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 02:32 AM

77. It isn't close. Canada...now that is past Israel in terms of LGBT issues.

Many European countries are, of course, far ahead of everyone. And no, individual states do not carry weight when it comes to the national comparison. One compares countries to countries, not their states or providences. If this were the case, we would be REALLY far behind! The majority of our states do not recognize marriage rights for GL people. The many of our states do not allow for gay adoption or for partners to adopt, some even explicitly ban it, same with "gay" marriage. Also keep in mind, our country also has a FEDERAL LAW that defines marriage (DOMA) which prohibits, explicitly, same-sex marriage. To me, this is why Israel is quite far ahead of the US in regards to GLBT rights. Hopefully, in the next four years this will change.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #77)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 02:46 AM

78. "Hopefully, in the next four years this will change. "

We can agree on that, at least

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #78)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 02:49 AM

79. True! (I was coming back to edit to add...)

I agree that neither country is overly terrible for gay folks. So, we agree on that as well. Though I can say, Oklahoma is MUCH different than were we in Massachusetts, but such is life.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #31)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 05:34 PM

51. A few more percent in the rights states and they'd be getting cabinet appointments in the US. (nt)

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Response to Posteritatis (Reply #51)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 05:37 PM

53. Under Reagan they did. But not since then.

Neither Bush president put that kind of blatant racist in their cabinet.

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Response to Fantastic Anarchist (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 06:01 PM

56. Jury results for the OP. I was Juror number 1.

Automated Message
AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

At Fri Dec 7, 2012, 02:31 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

'Mahmoud' can't get table at an Israeli eatery, but 'Tamir' can
http://www.democraticunderground.com/113424939

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

this o.p. might have been merely dangerous, but in any event the thread itself has quickly become a disaster of anti-semitism and accusations and general ugliness.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Dec 7, 2012, 02:39 PM, and the Jury voted 1-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Just because people may or may not have had some ugly responses does not mean that this should be hidden. Why should the op have the hide. Alert on the response you think is bigoted. I think the alerter meant well, But remember you are supposed to alert the one that you think is wrong, not the op.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: I have some trouble believing in "dangerous OPs."
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Anytime anyone says anything less than positive about the sacred country, it is qucikly nailed as anti-semitism. It's the third rail just like going into the gun forum. I will not be part of the charge!

Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I'm sorry, but the way I am seeing this is that it is not a post OF discrimination, but rather a post ABOUT discrimination. Therefore, it is a neutral and valid post and would be just as newsworthy whether about Arabs vs. Jews or Black vs. White. That being said, it is the responsibility of individual posters in the thread and not the OP to maintain civil discourse here. The inability of other members in the thread to wear their big boy/girl pants doesn't warrant hiding or locking the OP.

--Systematic Chaos

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #56)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 06:48 PM

58. I was the juror who obviously clicked the wrong vote by mistake



That'll teach me to jury right after stumbling home from the work week.

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Response to Posteritatis (Reply #58)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 06:56 PM

59. .

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #56)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 11:39 PM

65. Ouch...

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #56)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 02:18 AM

76. Is there no come-back on someone who uses the Alert system so frivolously?....

Why on earth would someone want to Alert on such a post?

In what possible way could this post be considered ".......disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate."?........Is there no come-back on someone who uses the Alert system so frivolously?

What has happened to the concept of free speech?

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Response to kayecy (Reply #76)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 05:01 PM

82. I don't think the person realized that the hide would go to the OP. I think the Alerter was

frusrtated with the debate in the thread, but the alert was wrong.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #82)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:49 AM

85. You are probably right, but......

You are probably right, but......that brings up another point....Why should Alerts and the Jury verdict not be open for everyone to see?

Come to think of, why is the Alerter allowed to post his (usually) biased comments in the section (Your comments) without any right of reply from the poster?.......That seems to be a travesty of basic justice.

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Response to kayecy (Reply #85)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:18 PM

86. That is a great question. I think if you want a good answer You should post this question in META.

I do not have the answer.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #56)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 08:20 PM

87. Thanks for posting that n/t

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #87)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 09:42 PM

88. Welcome! n/t

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Response to Fantastic Anarchist (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:25 PM

62. I wondered if they've ever refused to let Mizrahim eat there?

After all...those folks pretty much look like Arabs, don't they?

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #62)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 01:51 AM

71. Yes they are a disgusting piece of work,

And I hope their restaurant goes under after all this publicity.

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Response to King_David (Reply #71)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 05:59 PM

83. Thank you for saying that...sincerely.

I know it may seem counterintuitive to you, but at this point the most "pro-Israel" thing you can do is to publicly call for change in the way that the country treats the Arab minority of its citizens, and the way it treats non-combatant Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza.

You and I will likely never agree on most things, but please believe me that I say this as person who wants Israelis to have a future of peace and security.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #83)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 08:25 PM

84. Nonsense

It is about a racist restaurant owner, could of been in Miami or Atlanta or NYC or Tel Aviv....nothing more or less to do with Israel.

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Response to Fantastic Anarchist (Original post)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 12:16 PM

89. Thanks.

K & R

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Response to Scurrilous (Reply #89)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 05:34 PM

90. What do you think of this though?

What do you think of their employees?

Share your insights too please ?

The does not really tell us much what your thinking even though you said 'thanks and K & R '

Thoughts ?

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Response to King_David (Reply #90)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 05:41 PM

91. This poster isn't big on sharing thoughts

A thumbs up is about the most one can hope for.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #91)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 05:49 PM

92. I know ,that is why I was probing for more...

I want to get a feel,was the in agreement with these bigoted restaurant owners or in disgust?

Because a thumbs up is an unusual response to this OP.

Maybe he will share his thoughts with us?

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Response to King_David (Reply #92)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 06:10 PM

93. Probably "thanks for demonstrating how racist Israelis are"

Something along those lines I would imagine.

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