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Tue Dec 4, 2012, 01:51 PM

Really, Israel?

I've been supportive of Israel's efforts to deal with Hamas and the Palestine question since the start, but...

Really? Building more settlements to effectively isolate more of the West Bank?

Witholding tax revenues from them because they went to the UN and got recognition(which I don't agree with, but that's another issue) as an observer state?

Kind of losing faith right about now....

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Arrow 30 replies Author Time Post
Reply Really, Israel? (Original post)
unreadierLizard Dec 2012 OP
ann--- Dec 2012 #1
oberliner Dec 2012 #7
ann--- Dec 2012 #8
oberliner Dec 2012 #10
Shaktimaan Dec 2012 #27
KimonoGirl Dec 2012 #12
oberliner Dec 2012 #13
KimonoGirl Dec 2012 #14
oberliner Dec 2012 #16
KimonoGirl Dec 2012 #18
oberliner Dec 2012 #23
Shaktimaan Dec 2012 #26
KimonoGirl Dec 2012 #2
shira Dec 2012 #3
KimonoGirl Dec 2012 #4
oberliner Dec 2012 #5
KimonoGirl Dec 2012 #9
oberliner Dec 2012 #11
KimonoGirl Dec 2012 #15
shira Dec 2012 #20
azurnoir Dec 2012 #25
Scootaloo Dec 2012 #29
shira Dec 2012 #19
Shaktimaan Dec 2012 #28
Scootaloo Dec 2012 #17
shira Dec 2012 #21
King_David Dec 2012 #24
oberliner Dec 2012 #6
azurnoir Dec 2012 #22
villager Dec 2012 #30

Response to unreadierLizard (Original post)


Response to ann--- (Reply #1)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 04:44 PM

7. That Tehran Times article is ridiculous

Totally twists the quote and presents some really biased nonsense.

The Slate article makes some reasonable points.

Most in Israel do want peace and don't want any more land.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #7)


Response to ann--- (Reply #8)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 05:05 PM

10. Except he's not saying the same thing

Do you not see how the Tehran Times article (which itself was taken from another source) manipulates the quote to mean something it doesn't?

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Response to ann--- (Reply #8)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 12:00 AM

27. Don't like the message...?

Wow. Did you read that article? It's telling when someone links to an article put out by the Iranian press that's literally chock full of crazed conspiracy theories and laughable anti-Semitic propaganda, as a "good article on the subject."

Do you believe what's in that piece? That's so sad.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #7)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 05:07 PM

12. Most in Israel do want peace and don't want any more land.

 

Then why do they keep voting the right-wing freakshows into power?

That farce is slipping. This "we want peace" BS is not true anymore. Those 3,000 new settlement plans speak louder than your empty words.

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Response to KimonoGirl (Reply #12)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 05:08 PM

13. Livni got the most votes in the last election

She is completely opposed to Netanyahu and his current policies.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #13)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 05:22 PM

14. And that's relevant how?

 

In any case, did her opposition stop Netanyahu from ordering 3,000 more settlements? Of course not.

The right-wing freakshow in Israel is ruling the day. Can't wait for the day the Israeli population vote them out. Just like Palestinians should reject and be rid of Hamas and groups like them. Either extremes bring NOTHING to the table. Can you at least admit that? Or will you still carry on the farce that the current Israeli government give a f*** about a peace deal. Hint: They DON'T.

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Response to KimonoGirl (Reply #14)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 05:37 PM

16. She won the most votes

She has no control over what Netanyahu does - she isn't in the government.

I hope he loses in the next election for sure.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #16)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 05:43 PM

18. And is that suppose to mean something?

 

Majority in Israel support the government's aggressions against Palestine. Are you denying that?

That would be fantastic if the current fool of a PM gets his ass handed to him in the next election. Unlikely though.

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Response to KimonoGirl (Reply #18)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 08:15 PM

23. More Israelis voted for her than any other candidate

I'm not sure what you are not understanding.

Most Israelis support peaceful coexistence with their Palestinian neighbors.

The rockets landing in various cities and towns across Israel have definitely made most Israelis a bit jittery to say the least.

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Response to ann--- (Reply #1)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 11:46 PM

26. Except...

Israel has returned around 95% of the land it occupied in the six day war in exchange for peace treaties. If Israel wanted land and not peace then wouldn't they be doing the exact opposite?

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Response to unreadierLizard (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 03:44 PM

2. What little support they had is fading.

 

The pathetically minimal support they had in the World is starting to slip away. It's embarrassing now to support the shit Israel is doing! They can't keep the farce up anymore. Their arrogance and self-righteousness is biting them in the ass in a very public way. The injustice of this whole situation is becoming more apparent. Settlements lead to only one thing: NO PEACE PLAN and NO PALESTINE. Eventually, a game changing move will take place. Israel is dangerous when they act stupid. We already know they don't give a damn about taking human life... What's to stop them from committing a more permanent act of war?

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Response to KimonoGirl (Reply #2)


Response to shira (Reply #3)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 04:39 PM

4. "even making up shit" - That's YOUR job.

 

Have I EVER said Israel should not exist? More shit from you.

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Response to KimonoGirl (Reply #4)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 04:42 PM

5. You did say that they don't give a damn about taking human life

That's pretty preposterous.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 05:04 PM

9. They don't. And it's not.

 

Just like Hamas doesn't. Israel is no different in their respect for human life. If they gave a damn, they would NOT drop bombs on apartment buildings in the middle of the night with children sleeping in their beds. That is crazy f***ed up shit you only see Terrorists do.

Oh wait.

Exactly.

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Response to KimonoGirl (Reply #9)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 05:07 PM

11. It's scary that you think that

Would you say the same about the US?

Any country that has ever been in a military conflict?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 05:25 PM

15. Hmm, has the US committed war crimes? Let me think about that.

 

Of course they have, imo. Are you purposely acting obtuse or what?

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Response to KimonoGirl (Reply #9)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 06:29 PM

20. Of course they do. They try minimizing civilian casualties....

....while Hamas tries maximizing Palestinian civilian casualties for PR purposes. They do that so folks like you get off on blasting Israel.

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Response to shira (Reply #20)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 11:16 PM

25. well ever since Goldstone they've made a bit more effort n/t

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Response to shira (Reply #20)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 12:27 AM

29. No they don't

You do not drop bombs on a city and claim "we're trying to minimize civilian casualties," Shira. That's just not how bombs work. In fact it's the opposite of bombs. That's why terrorists use bombs, and not like, morningstars or blowguns or something; bombs cause lots of damage indiscriminately.

If you really, really want to claim that the use of large bombs against a densely populated urban area is an "effort to reduce civilian casualties," then you really need to start giving more credit to Hamas; they've been shooting flying pipe bombs at Israel's cities for over a decade now and have only killed 61 people as a result. Either that means that they should be your heroes, or your logic is really fucking flawed - I'm betting on the latter, but hey, never know.

I know you love the "Israel is great because it could kill way more people than it actually ends up doing!" argument. But it's just not a very good argument, and it just makes you look like a rather vile person when you try it out.

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Response to KimonoGirl (Reply #4)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 06:28 PM

19. You're an anti-zionist, aren't you?

By definition, anti's do not believe Israel should exist in any form, even on 1 square inch of land in the mideast.

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Response to KimonoGirl (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 12:07 AM

28. Pretty much, yes.

You're certainly very vocal in your opposition to Zionism, wouldn't you agree?

And Zionism is the support of Jewish self-determination via an autonomous state in Palestine. Aka: Israel.

Opposing Zionism IS opposing the existence if Israel any way I see it. How does one oppose one but support the other? They're intrinsically linked.

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Response to shira (Reply #3)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 05:43 PM

17. Yes yes, it can't be that Israel keeps fucking up...

It's just that us evil terrible awful people irrationally and unthinkingly hate Israel for no good reason at all! Becuase we're wild-eyed mindless fanatics who want to destroy Israel and eat all the Jews in a stew, or whatever.

Yes, that must be it. You got us, drat.

You remind me of some Ron Paul supporters I had to deal with. No, it can't be that Ron Paul just had bad ideas and a shady past. it's that the rest of us are statist nazis who want to destroy America and see white people enslaved while the good and noble Paul is drawn and quartered for speaking the truth! Yeah, that's the ticket!

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #17)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 06:59 PM

21. Just saying anti-Zionists against Israel's very existence...

...can't expect to have their criticism of everything that is Israel taken seriously. They'll find fault where there is none.

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Response to shira (Reply #3)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 10:55 PM

24. +1

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Response to unreadierLizard (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 04:43 PM

6. Elections coming soon (January)

Hoping for the best.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #6)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 07:48 PM

22. the Rightest/Religious block is carrying around 55% of the Israeli voters

with Likud Beiteinu. showing up to be by far the strongest

http://972mag.com/polls/

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Response to unreadierLizard (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 01:32 AM

30. Why support a Likud government any more than you'd support a far-right government here?

Rightwing militarists -- in league with fundamentalists -- are bad for whatever country they're running.

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