HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Topics » Foreign Affairs & National Security » Israel/Palestine (Group) » More Than 100 Gaza Civili...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 12:48 PM

More Than 100 Gaza Civilians Killed During Latest Conflict: Report

By Agence France-Presse
Sunday, December 2, 2012 10:34 EST

The phone rang at 3:00 am: “You have five minutes to evacuate the house,” an Israeli officer said in flawless Arabic. Within minutes, an Israeli drone fired a warning shot.

The Israeli military employed a range of warnings to civilians during its November 14-21 bombardment to halt rocket fire into Israel by Gaza militants, but nevertheless civilian deaths were high.

During the offensive, 174 Palestinians were killed — including more than 100 civilians, among them at least 37 children and 14 women — and six Israelis, two soldiers and four civilians including a woman, according to both sides.


“The Israeli army called on the cell phone and gave us five minutes to get out,” said Ayman al-Ahmad Khouli, who was living with his brothers and their families, 45 people in all, in a three-storey house in Zeitun, a neighborhood of Gaza City near the border with Israel.

MORE...

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/12/02/more-than-100-gaza-civilians-killed-during-latest-conflict-report/

19 replies, 1462 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 19 replies Author Time Post
Reply More Than 100 Gaza Civilians Killed During Latest Conflict: Report (Original post)
Purveyor Dec 2012 OP
oberliner Dec 2012 #1
KimonoGirl Dec 2012 #2
Scootaloo Dec 2012 #6
KimonoGirl Dec 2012 #3
Shaktimaan Dec 2012 #16
leveymg Dec 2012 #4
KimonoGirl Dec 2012 #5
Shaktimaan Dec 2012 #17
KimonoGirl Dec 2012 #18
TrueBlueinCO Dec 2012 #7
delrem Dec 2012 #8
TrueBlueinCO Dec 2012 #9
delrem Dec 2012 #14
KimonoGirl Dec 2012 #19
Bodhi BloodWave Dec 2012 #10
TrueBlueinCO Dec 2012 #11
Bodhi BloodWave Dec 2012 #12
pelsar Dec 2012 #13
TrueBlueinCO Dec 2012 #15

Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 12:54 PM

1. Sounds like those phone calls saved a lot of lives

The Khouli family quoted in this article, for instance.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 01:14 PM

2. Wow.

 

Last edited Sun Dec 2, 2012, 05:06 PM - Edit history (1)

37 children and 14 women were KILLED. Yet STILL you try to whitewash the incident and commend the Israelis using phone call warnings like that changes anything?!

F*** those phone calls. They didn't save those women and children who did die! Or did you not read that part or maybe you just didn't even care?


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KimonoGirl (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 04:43 PM

6. That's Oberliner for you n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 01:22 PM

3. 3am call: "We're about to kill some people, so you better get the hell out. K. Thx. Bye!"

 

How considerate!

The phone rang at 3:00 am: “You have five minutes to evacuate the house,” an Israeli officer said in flawless Arabic. Within minutes, an Israeli drone fired a warning shot.

^ What a wonderful thing to wake up to at 3am in the morning. The terror these people have to endure. Who else has to live through such uncertainty and threats to their lives? Oh wait. Heh. And somehow we're supposed to believe only one side is "defending" themselves? Especially when the same shitty tactics are used on both sides? LMAO Whatever.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KimonoGirl (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 12:43 AM

16. The same tactics?

What same tactics? Israel is going out of their way to try and mitigate civilian casualties as much as they possibly can, even when it costs them tactical advantages or even soldiers' lives. By comparison, Hamas seeks to increase the number of Israeli civilian deaths as much as possible and developed special tactics to achieve that, such as using suicide bombs in concurrent pairs, sending the second one in to the same spot 20 minutes after the first was detonated, to specifically target medics and rescue crews.

What a wonderful thing to wake up to at 3am in the morning


It's not supposed to be wonderful, this is a war. It is supposed to limit civilian deaths, which it does quite admirably.

I fail to understand why you need to draw these false equivalencies between terrorism that seeks to maximize civilian deaths and warfare tactics that try to mitigate civilian casualties. They are not just dissimilar. They are opposites.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 01:50 PM

4. The IRA used to do the same thing (sometimes). They were still treated as terrorists.

Just because one uses robot aircraft instead of rusted Morris transit vans to deliver the explosives, it's still terrorism.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to leveymg (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 02:32 PM

5. I completely agree. But they think it's self-defence?

 

How can anyone argue with that? If you stick that self-defence label on it, you can do anything you want! Put a bullet in a child's head or drop a bomb where women and children are sleeping in the middle of the night. It's ALL okay because they dropped some leaflets or made some warning calls that we're about to come kill you if you don't evacuate your home. What the actual f***? Where is the line? Nowhere. Because they can just come back later, issue some weak ass fake-apology claiming they didn't mean to kill that many people but had no choice? How else can they stop Hamas' rockets? It's not like Israel does ANYTHING to encourage and provoke such attacks. Perfect. Little. Angels. We should all be on their side exclusively and cheer-lead them on to even more killing! << Until you jump into those crazy sycophant shoes, get ready for all the moaning, whining and bitching about Anti-Semitism and Anti-Israel and Pro-Hamas attacks/labels you will get thrown at you.

There is no room for nuance or balance with people who support terror and disguise it as a right to self defence.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KimonoGirl (Reply #5)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 12:57 AM

17. Interesting.

There is no room for nuance or balance with people who support terror and disguise it as a right to self defence.


So you would categorize yourself as holding a nuanced and balanced view if this conflict?

Beyond that I don't know what the actual point of the above post is. You criticize the idea that labeling violence as self-defense gives Israel carte Blanche to kill without concern. Is that all? Are you denying that its self-defense? Are you implying that Hamas' terrorism is equally self-defense (or not?)

How else can they stop Hamas' rockets? It's not like Israel does ANYTHING to encourage and provoke such attacks. Perfect. Little. Angels
.

Whatever Israel might do is irrelevant. No action they could take warrants the perpetuation of war crimes against them. NTM the rockets far predate sanctions and the blockade. You clearly reject a military response... So what would you recommend Israel do to guard against rocket and artillery attacks?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Shaktimaan (Reply #17)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 10:12 PM

18. Thank you.

 

So you would categorize yourself as holding a nuanced and balanced view if this conflict?


Obviously. There is more than enough blame to go around. Discussing the cycle of cause and effect pushing each side and prolonging this conflict... that's a fair area of debate. It gets stupid when one side pretends they have clean hands and are perfectly justified in everything they do. Ugh, so deluded.

You criticize the idea that labeling violence as self-defense gives Israel carte Blanche to kill without concern. Is that all?


Yes. Labelling Terrorism as "Self-defence" is bullshit. Who are you fooling?

Are you denying that its self-defense? Are you implying that Hamas' terrorism is equally self-defense (or not?)


What Israel is doing right now is NOT self-defence.

What Hamas is doing is NOT self-defence.

Both sides are acting like heartless f***ing idiots. The victory in the UN last week could have been an OPPORTUNITY for Israel to come closer to a fair and reasonable resolution. But Israel was true to form and acted with effortless stupidity.


Whatever Israel might do is irrelevant. No action they could take warrants the perpetuation of war crimes against them.


Are you serious? Is this some kind of sick stupid joke?

Israel KILLS people. They kill CHILDREN. No justification can wash that fact away. No amount of apologising can change that reality.

Israel DESTROYS homes and families. They breathe terror into a civilian population and treat them like shit.

How the f*** is that irrelevant? Oh wait, it's "self-defence". Fools.

You clearly reject a military response... So what would you recommend Israel do to guard against rocket and artillery attacks?


Palestinians need a choice. Right now, there is a glimmer of hope with the recent UN victory for Palestine... they might just get a choice. Giving more influence and power to a more moderate governing authority that can deliver a secure and peaceful future, is the only way to PUSH OUT groups like Hamas. With Hamas gone, the siege can be lifted and more progress can be made. But right now, there is NO hope felt in Gaza and the people there are desperate. Completely marginalising Hamas by giving Palestinians more hope in the negotiating process will further reduce Hamas' relevance. The more Israel provokes and makes living in Gaza a completely hellish existence with the siege... the rocket attacks will continue to be justified by Hamas and Israel will continue to use the rockets as justification for dropping bombs/the siege which leads to more rocket attacks that will continue to be justified by Hamas and Israel will continue to use the rockets as justification for dropping bombs/the siege which leads to more rocket attacks that will continue to be justified by Hamas and Israel will continue to use the rockets as justification for dropping bombs/the siege which leads to more rocket attacks that will continue to be justified by Hamas and Israel will continue to use the rockets as justification for dropping bombs/the siege.... ad nauseum.

AT some point, one side has to f***ing snap out of it.

The military response is a failure. What has it achieved? The rockets still keep coming. People are still dying. Get a f***ing clue!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 08:30 PM

7. These things happen

 

when civilian populations harbor terrorists.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TrueBlueinCO (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 09:10 PM

8. Then I suppose you agree with Gilad Sharon? nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to delrem (Reply #8)


Response to TrueBlueinCO (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:57 AM

14. wow

just wow

Participation in this group is an awakening experience.
Literally hair-raising.

There's nothing I can say that wouldn't get me banned

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TrueBlueinCO (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 10:16 PM

19. Yuck.

 

You are embarrassing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TrueBlueinCO (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 09:56 PM

10. can you point me to the areas of Gaza that wouldn't be considered 'civilian'? nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bodhi BloodWave (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:03 PM

11. Doesn't matter either way

 

Hamas hiding terrorists among the civilian population is reprehensible, and will inevitably result in civilian deaths. The fact that these "civilians" welcome them among them makes have very little sympathy for them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TrueBlueinCO (Reply #11)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:54 AM

12. I was trying to point out that more or less all of gaza is a civilan area, its close to impossible

for Hamas *NOT* to be around civilians even if they wanted to.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bodhi BloodWave (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:20 AM

13. then you need some lessons in geography

N. Gaza is relatively empty by a place called beit Lahiya, where the sewer system is.
in s.w gaza north of rafah and west Khan Yunes its also sparsly populated to name just a few

the reason hamas doesnt use those areas is that they would be sitting targets for the IDF

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pelsar (Reply #13)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:47 AM

15. Yup

 

Hamas chooses to operate among civilians and the civilians generally welcome them in.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread