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Sat Nov 24, 2012, 02:19 PM

Israel has moved to the right, but it is not an apartheid state

My experience of apartheid in South Africa leads me to think a survey of Israeli attitudes towards Arabs has been spun too far

That Israel's Jewish public has moved sharply to the right in recent years is well known. There's a rightwing government to prove it and so beyond challenge is Israeli prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, and so confident about his hold on power, that he has called early elections for January. Indeed the government will shift even further to the right with this week's dramatic announcement that Netanyahu's Likud party will join forces for the elections with the foreign minister Avigdor Lieberman's Yisrael Beiteinu (Israel Our Home).

Lieberman, who speaks for many of the Russian immigrants who form about 20% of the population, stands well to the right of even the rightwing Likud, so Netanyahu could run into problems with some of his own members in addition to their resentment at being pushed down the list for parliamentary seats. If the link endures greater curtailment of civil liberties can be expected, harsher attitudes towards Israeli Arabs who also form about 20% of the population, and less influence for Jewish religious parties.

Even with all this, the extent of the hostility expressed by Israeli Jews towards the country's Arab citizens, reported in an opinion survey this week, still comes as a shock: among much else, 42% said they don't want their children in the same school class with Arab children and 42% don't want to live in the same building with Arabs.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/26/israel-arabs-not-apartheid?newsfeed=true

22 replies, 1966 views

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Reply Israel has moved to the right, but it is not an apartheid state (Original post)
King_David Nov 2012 OP
King_David Nov 2012 #1
aranthus Nov 2012 #2
jody Nov 2012 #3
King_David Nov 2012 #4
azurnoir Nov 2012 #14
azurnoir Nov 2012 #5
shira Nov 2012 #6
dlwickham Nov 2012 #7
shira Nov 2012 #8
dlwickham Nov 2012 #11
azurnoir Nov 2012 #18
dlwickham Nov 2012 #19
azurnoir Nov 2012 #20
oberliner Nov 2012 #21
azurnoir Nov 2012 #22
azurnoir Nov 2012 #13
azurnoir Nov 2012 #9
shira Nov 2012 #10
azurnoir Nov 2012 #12
shira Nov 2012 #15
azurnoir Nov 2012 #16
azurnoir Nov 2012 #17

Response to King_David (Original post)

Sat Nov 24, 2012, 02:22 PM

1. Snips..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/26/israel-arabs-not-apartheid?newsfeed=true

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The survey's picture is very different for the secular who form the majority of Israel's Jews: 73% did not object to having Arabs in their children's school, and 68% would live in an apartment building alongside Arabs.

These are remarkably positive views in light of the effect of the Palestinian suicide bombings during the Second Intifada in driving many Israeli Jews to the right, plus the continuing threats to Israel's existence by Iran and Palestinian militants and their supporters in the world. The firing of rockets and mortars more than 80 this week at southern Israel from the Gaza Strip by Hamas and others adds to antipathy towards Palestinians. Rightwing leaders gain support by playing on Jewish fears.

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I know about apartheid. I was born in South Africa and spent 26 years as a journalist specialising in reporting apartheid; I have also written several books about it. I only left South Africa because my newspaper, the Rand Daily Mail, of which I was then deputy editor, was closed down by its commercial owners under pressure from the government. We paid the price for being the country's leading voice against apartheid.

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Whatever attitudes might be claimed for Israel's Jewish public the situation on the ground does not support accusations of apartheid

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Why do I dismiss the apartheid analogies so emphatically? Because I straddle both apartheid South Africa and Israel today and have knowledge of the good and the ill in both societies.

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Response to King_David (Original post)

Sat Nov 24, 2012, 02:36 PM

2. Sixty plus years of being on the sharp end of your neighbors hostility can do that. n/t

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Response to King_David (Original post)

Sat Nov 24, 2012, 02:48 PM

3. "not an apartheid state" Try explaining that to the non-Jews who live in Israel.

 

APARTHEID : racial segregation; specifically : a former policy of segregation and political and economic discrimination against non-European groups in the Republic of South Africa

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Response to jody (Reply #3)

Sat Nov 24, 2012, 03:08 PM

4. I think the author knows a thing or two about Apartheid

Prominent anti apartheid activist .

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Response to King_David (Reply #4)

Sat Nov 24, 2012, 11:17 PM

14. unlike Desmond Tutu huh? n/t

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Response to jody (Reply #3)

Sat Nov 24, 2012, 03:18 PM

5. The practice of apartheid by Israel is in the West Bank not Israel within the Green Line

while there are discriminatory practices and laws they are applied equally to all Israeli citizens

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #5)

Sat Nov 24, 2012, 04:01 PM

6. It's not apartheid in the W.Bank either.

Like the blood libel about Israelis just killing Gazans, this is yet another demonizing narrative.

You want apartheid vs. Palestinians, look no further up north than Lebanon.

Funny you deny it happening there, where Palestinians cannot own land, cannot vote, and cannot be in numerous professions.

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Response to shira (Reply #6)

Sat Nov 24, 2012, 04:07 PM

7. how about Jordan and Syria

thought the Palestinians were pretty much outcasts there as well

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Response to dlwickham (Reply #7)

Sat Nov 24, 2012, 04:43 PM

8. Them too. But no one dares call it apartheid for some reason. n/t

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Response to shira (Reply #8)

Sat Nov 24, 2012, 06:33 PM

11. and I wonder what that reason may be



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Response to dlwickham (Reply #11)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 10:21 PM

18. well you can't be as totally thoughtless

on the matter as your comment would imply so what ideas on the matter do you have?

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #18)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 04:09 PM

19. no ideas

just wondering out loud

maybe the Jordanians and the Syrians don't want them either

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Response to dlwickham (Reply #19)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 04:16 PM

20. once again Jordan has given citizenship to literally millions of Palestinians

and Syria is in chaos at the moment, but thanks for reiterating the complaint that those nasty Arabs won't solve Israels Palestinian problem for it

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #20)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 04:21 PM

21. And denied citizenship to literally tens of thousands of Palestinians

Why is that exactly?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #21)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 04:28 PM

22. present evidence and we'll discuss it okay

or is this yet something else you do not wish to discuss?

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Response to dlwickham (Reply #7)

Sat Nov 24, 2012, 11:15 PM

13. Palestinians are almost 1/2 of Jordans citizenry

there are some Palestinian refugees in Jordan mostly from Gaza whom Israel encouraged to move there in the early 1970's when it was attempting to shuffle Gaza's Palestinian population

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Response to shira (Reply #6)

Sat Nov 24, 2012, 04:51 PM

9. "Blood libel " wow I'm impressed pulling out the big guns are we now?

This snip is about legal conditions in the West Bank

Israeli children cannot be jailed under the age of 14, while Palestinian children as young as 12 have been held by Israel. Israeli children must be given access to a lawyer within 48 hours, whereas Palestinians can be held for three months without legal aid.


http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=534074

2 peoples being subject to different treatment under the same legal system based on their ethnicity, textbook apartheid

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #9)

Sat Nov 24, 2012, 05:37 PM

10. Yeah, that's what it is when folks pretend Israel just kills children...

...isn't the least bit careful, and Hamas has zero to do with it due to their strategy of victimizing their citizens. Even Goldstone eventually admitted intentionality to do harm to Palestinians was a bullshit charge.

And really, if it's not apartheid against Palestinians in Lebanon, Jordan, or Syria then what makes you think Israel is any worse than those countries - earning the dreaded apartheid label?



That's right, they're not worse so if it's not apartheid anywhere else in the mideast, it isn't in Israel either. But let's see you try to argue what Israel does is definitely apartheid in comparison to neighboring Arab states.

Go for it!

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Response to shira (Reply #10)

Sat Nov 24, 2012, 11:13 PM

12. well if Lebanon is commiting "apartheid" against Palestinians then Israel is doing the same and wors

against Sudanese and Ethiopian refugees as to Jordan, it has allowed millions of Palestinians citizenship so many that almost half of its citizenry are ethnically Palestinian and Syria things there are so anarchy that little can be said except for that the situation is tragic as to your ravings about Arab countries lets take a look at a thing called facts shall we Palestinians in foreign countries such as those you named are refugees from colonial Palestine who were made refuges by the newly born Israel who is now enforcing its own colonial rule over the West Bank

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #12)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 08:43 PM

15. If Lebanon is committing apartheid? Why deny it?

Is that apartheid or not?

As to your claim WRT 2 rules for 2 peoples, the WB settlements have thousands of Arab/Palestinian Israeli citizens living in them as equals. How's that apartheid?

Funny that you claim what Israel does is worse than Lebanese apartheid. Israel is the only nation in the region who has granted Palestinians citizenship & equal rights in Israel (where they vote, serve on the supreme court, etc).

Lastly, the situation WRT refugees now in foreign countries is a result of those nations perpetuating Palestinian misery. You can argue Israel started it, but you cannot possibly blame Israel 60 years later for its perpetuation.

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Response to shira (Reply #15)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 10:11 PM

16. thousands of Palestinian Arabs live in Jewish settlements in the West Bank?

list them and their population of Arabs, or are attempting to weasel the population of East Jerusalem?

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Response to shira (Reply #15)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 10:19 PM

17. now lets try this again

if Lebanon is committing apartheid against Palestinian refugees then Israel is committing the same against Black African refugees by imprisoning them for being refugees

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