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Fri Nov 9, 2012, 11:09 PM

Chomsky: Impressions of Gaza

http://chomsky.info/articles/20121104.htm

Even a single night in jail is enough to give a taste of what it means to be under the total control of some external force. And it hardly takes more than a day in Gaza to begin to appreciate what it must be like to try to survive in the world’s largest open-air prison, where a million and a half people, in the most densely populated area of the world, are constantly subject to random and often savage terror and arbitrary punishment, with no purpose other than to humiliate and degrade, and with the further goal of ensuring that Palestinian hopes for a decent future will be crushed and that the overwhelming global support for a diplomatic settlement that will grant these rights will be nullified.

The intensity of this commitment on the part of the Israeli political leadership has been dramatically illustrated just in the past few days, as they warn that they will “go crazy” if Palestinian rights are given limited recognition at the UN. That is not a new departure. The threat to “go crazy” (“nishtagea”) is deeply rooted, back to the Labor governments of the 1950s, along with the related “Samson Complex”: we will bring down the Temple walls if crossed. It was an idle threat then; not today.

The purposeful humiliation is also not new, though it constantly takes new forms. Thirty years ago political leaders, including some of the most noted hawks, submitted to Prime Minister Begin a shocking and detailed account of how settlers regularly abuse Palestinians in the most depraved manner and with total impunity. The prominent military-political analyst Yoram Peri wrote with disgust that the army’s task is not to defend the state, but “to demolish the rights of innocent people just because they are Araboushim (“n*****s,” “k****s”) living in territories that God promised to us.”

<snip>

The effects are painfully evident. In the Khan Yunis hospital, the director, who is also chief of surgery, describes with anger and passion how even medicines are lacking for relief of suffering patients, as well as simple surgical equipment, leaving doctors helpless and patients in agony. Personal stories add vivid texture to the general disgust one feels at the obscenity of the harsh occupation. One example is the testimony of a young woman who despaired that her father, who would have been proud that she was the first woman in the refugee camp to gain an advanced degree, had “passed away after 6 months of fighting cancer aged 60 years. Israeli occupation denied him a permit to go to Israeli hospitals for treatment. I had to suspend my study, work and life and go to set next to his bed. We all sat including my brother the physician and my sister the pharmacist, all powerless and hopeless watching his suffering. He died during the inhumane blockade of Gaza in summer 2006 with very little access to health service. I think feeling powerless and hopeless is the most killing feeling that human can ever have. It kills the spirit and breaks the heart. You can fight occupation but you cannot fight your feeling of being powerless. You can't even dissolve that feeling.”

45 replies, 3013 views

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Arrow 45 replies Author Time Post
Reply Chomsky: Impressions of Gaza (Original post)
eridani Nov 2012 OP
hack89 Nov 2012 #1
Ken Burch Nov 2012 #5
hack89 Nov 2012 #6
Ken Burch Nov 2012 #11
shira Nov 2012 #14
Ken Burch Nov 2012 #16
shira Nov 2012 #20
Ken Burch Nov 2012 #22
shira Nov 2012 #32
Ken Burch Nov 2012 #35
Dick Dastardly Nov 2012 #26
libodem Nov 2012 #2
King_David Nov 2012 #3
libodem Nov 2012 #9
King_David Nov 2012 #13
azurnoir Nov 2012 #15
Ken Burch Nov 2012 #17
azurnoir Nov 2012 #18
Ken Burch Nov 2012 #19
azurnoir Nov 2012 #21
shira Nov 2012 #44
azurnoir Nov 2012 #45
oberliner Nov 2012 #4
aranthus Nov 2012 #10
Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #7
Scootaloo Nov 2012 #29
Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #30
Scootaloo Nov 2012 #31
oberliner Nov 2012 #8
azurnoir Nov 2012 #12
King_David Nov 2012 #23
oberliner Nov 2012 #24
King_David Nov 2012 #25
Scootaloo Nov 2012 #28
King_David Nov 2012 #33
Scootaloo Nov 2012 #36
King_David Nov 2012 #37
Scootaloo Nov 2012 #38
King_David Nov 2012 #39
King_David Nov 2012 #40
Scootaloo Nov 2012 #41
King_David Nov 2012 #42
Scootaloo Nov 2012 #43
Ken Burch Nov 2012 #27
King_David Nov 2012 #34

Response to eridani (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 12:37 PM

1. Imagine just how quickly things would change

if Hamas renounced violence and stopped firing rockets at Israel.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #1)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:50 PM

5. It isn't all Hamas' fault. There's equal blame on both sides.

And Hamas wouldn't have ever had any power if the Israelis hadn't been obsessed for decades with discrediting the PLO-I hope people can look at the rise of Hamas and accept that it proves that the fixation with bringing down the PLO was a horrific mistake that had no positive results for Israel at all.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #5)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:03 PM

6. It is Hamas' fault that rockets are being fired from their territory.

It also brings into question their judgement if they think that Israel will be cowed by violence.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #6)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 03:37 PM

11. It brings the Israeli governments' judgment into question if they think Hamas

will be cowed by violence AND if they think that it's morally acceptable to punish the people of Gaza collectively for Hamas' actions. OCL should have discredited that thinking once and for all. Operation Cast Even More Lead can't possibly produce anything different than what OCL did.

Whatever you think of Hamas(and believe me, I dislike them as much as you), why should the civilians of Gaza, who are powerless to stop Hamas from doing anything, be injured or killed over this? You can't assume that they all back the rocket-firing.

Using force here fits the definition of insanity...doing the same thing over and over again in the hopes of getting a different result. It didn't work(and could never have worked)for the U.S. in Vietnam...why should Israeli leaders think it would be any different for them?

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #11)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 06:36 PM

14. So Israelis should just lie back and take the collective punishment? n/t

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Response to shira (Reply #14)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 06:39 PM

16. No, they should try something else.

What they HAVE done clearly doesn't work.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #16)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 07:19 PM

20. Like what? Do tell!

And maybe the pro-Palestinian side needs to do something else, like voice outrage at Hamas for all the rockets, using their people as shields, children as militants, etc.

Maybe they'd think twice w/o all the support they usually get.

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Response to shira (Reply #20)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 08:10 PM

22. proximity talks(the indirect negotiation method Israel used with the PLO once)might be an option

Peacekeeping troops from somewhere else(not the UN, if that's an issue), some country that's neutral in this fight might also help, since neither side can be trusted to handle THAT particular task at the moment.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #22)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 04:35 AM

32. They can't even agree to a ceasefire thru proximity talks via Egypt.

And no peacekeeping troops are going to risk their necks fighting for people in other countries.

Ridiculous.

So while trying to negotiate something, Hamas fires at will into Israel - collectively punishing over 1 million civilians while blackmailing Israel. Meanwhile, hundreds of rockets later these troops of yours will deploy....when? Next month? Which countries will volunteer?

Nice plan.



Obviously, collective punishment against Israelis is preferred over collective punishment of Palestinians.

No other country would ever consider doing what you're proposing.

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Response to shira (Reply #32)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 01:12 PM

35. No, it isn't. The attack currently underway isn't going to stop Hamas at all

It will just hurt innocent Gazan civilians. NO innocent civilians should be hurt.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #5)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 10:25 PM

26. BS, There is not equal blame on both sides. The fault lies with Hamas.

Hamas chose to engage in violence and terror and especially as they mainly target civillians.


Hamas would not have any power if they did not have the huge support that they do among Palestinians.

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 01:11 PM

2. The great Gaza

Ghetto. I think Israel is morbidity abusive to the Palestinians in order to inflame the other Muslims in the region. If they could just insense Iran enough with the starvation, searches, beatings, imprisonment, torturing, and withholding of medical and building supplies.

It's a big F U and middle finger. See look we are kicking the crap out of your brothers, suckas. Come do sumthin about it.

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Response to libodem (Reply #2)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 02:38 PM

3. Why would Iran care ? nt

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Response to King_David (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 01:59 PM

9. Israel has been spoiling for war for the last ten years

They have a monster arsenal of nuclear weapons and want to have a reason to blow Iran off the map.

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Response to libodem (Reply #9)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 06:28 PM

13. The question was why would Iran care about the Palestinians?

Not some other question that you answered .

And as for "blowing off the map" or "wiping off the map" or "removing off the pages of history" or whatever other " mistranslation " you wish to believe... That the lingo and rhetoric of that nutjob lunatic president of Iran .. Referring to The Jewish State or Zionist Entity or whatever he calls Israel ...

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Response to libodem (Reply #9)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 06:38 PM

15. actually Iran supplying Hamas was an on going meme till

the regime change in Egypt and now some of the same people that were making claims of Iran floating weapons to Gaza as a justification for the blockade are now claiming huh what Iran why no

the old I/P forum on DU2 is not accessible at the moment unless you have saved link but even then the archives are not available at the moment

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Response to King_David (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 06:47 PM

17. Because it's supposedly allied WITH Hamas?

That, in theory, give them a dog in this hunt...or skin in the game...or whatever other cheesy metaphor you can come up with.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #17)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 07:01 PM

18. well didn't you notice the message shift

it started about the time Mubarak was ousted and went into high gear when Morsi was elected now it's Iran doesn;t have much to do with Gaza whereas prior it had been Iran is supplying Hamas IMO this shift is par for the course in these parts

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #18)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 07:03 PM

19. You're right...I didn't.

The "line" has been changed indeed.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #19)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 07:49 PM

21. so goes life in I/P

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #18)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 04:56 AM

44. There is no message shift. Iran is supplying Hamas thru Egypt...

&feature=player_embedded

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Response to shira (Reply #44)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 06:21 AM

45. comments # 13 and 7

thanks though

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Response to libodem (Reply #2)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 04:32 PM

4. It is wild to think that a person can actually believe the things you have typed here

Mind-boggling.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 03:13 PM

10. You think. libodem believes or feels.

They are different modes of thought.

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Response to libodem (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 02:03 AM

7. erm...

Hamas is Sunni. Iran is Shiite.
They're hardly brothers. This is Islam 101.

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Response to Shaktimaan (Reply #7)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 01:10 AM

29. I'm glad Team Israel: America Division™ finally caught on.

Let's see if it sticks.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #29)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 01:31 AM

30. I'm sorry? np

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Response to Shaktimaan (Reply #30)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 01:33 AM

31. Ken Burch outlines it pretty well above n/t

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 08:39 AM

8. That's a good impression

There should be more, others. We should take a DU field trip over there and draw our own conclusions. Can we start a fund drive?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #8)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 03:43 PM

12. Operation Pillar of Defense might make that trip a bit risky

guess it'll just have to wait eh?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #8)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 08:36 PM

23. Count me out,

I do not imagine a Gay Jew would come out of Gaza alive.


I'll chill and wait for you guys at Mikes Place on the Tayelet in Tel Aviv.


( you know the Canadian Restaurant bar that was bombed by ISM aided Terrorists...its still open

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Government/Communiques/2003/Details+of+April+30-+2003+Tel+Aviv+suicide+bombing.htm)

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Response to King_David (Reply #23)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:07 PM

24. Isn't Noam Chomsky a Gay Jew?

I could be wrong on either or both counts, but I thought he was.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #24)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:25 PM

25. Maybe,

But to them he is a 'useful idiot' and so afforded their protection.

As you know,I do not fall into that category.

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Response to King_David (Reply #25)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 01:06 AM

28. No, you would have to be useful for that moniker to fit, Dave

Way to go in positing that Chomsky "doesn't count" though. Doing a good job, showing what color the roots of American "Pro-Israel" thought really are.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #28)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 10:07 AM

33. Mmmm , you don't even know me but yet your comfortable calling me an "Idiot "

How does that work ?

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Response to King_David (Reply #33)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 03:26 PM

36. And you know Noam Chomsky so well? n/t

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #36)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 05:36 PM

37. You called me an idiot and I said Hamas considers Chomsky a "useful Idiot"

Useful idiot

Term invented in Soviet Russia to describe people who blindly supported the likes of Lenin and Stalin while they committed atrocity after atrocity.


http://m.urbandictionary.com/#define?term=Useful%20idiot

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Response to King_David (Reply #37)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 12:13 AM

38. I would think most people who accuse Noam Chomsky of supporting Hamas are pretty dim, yeah.

Now that you mention it.

But point of fact was, I said you weren't useful.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #38)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 12:22 AM

39. Ok thanks for the clarification,

It is always nice when fellow DU members avoid personal attacks on other DU members, after all we are a community.

I just thought that you had called me dim,not useful and implied I was an idiot , but clearly I was wrong.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #38)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 12:29 AM

40. 'accuse Noam Chomsky of supporting Hamas '

And again you should re read my post, I never said Chomsky supports Hamas,I said Hamas considers Chomsky a 'Useful Idiot'.

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Response to King_David (Reply #40)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 12:33 AM

41. I did re-read it, thanks.

Term invented in Soviet Russia to describe people who blindly supported the likes of Lenin and Stalin while they committed atrocity after atrocity.


Maybe you should be the one re-reading your posts... And why do I feel like I tell you that in damn near every thread we post in?

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #41)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 12:45 AM

42. Guess you missed the part where I said Hamas Considers him, not that I consider him ? nt

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Response to King_David (Reply #42)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 01:25 AM

43. So you're privy to the inner opinions of Hamas, too?

Don't be an un-useful person, Dave. It's easy to tell when a writer is attributing their own opinions to others.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #24)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 12:41 AM

27. Chomsky is Jewish, but he's not gay(not that the latter detail matters at all, actually).

Just for the record. And he supports the Geneva Accords, so he's not even anti-Israel.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #27)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 10:15 AM

34. It would matter to Hamas though. nt

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