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Mon Nov 5, 2012, 01:16 AM

Fury as leader concedes pillar of Palestinian cause

JERUSALEM: President Mahmoud Abbas is facing down a furious response from Palestinians at home and abroad over his decision to give up his right to return to his home town of Safed, from where his family were forced to flee in 1948.

His comments tore at the fabric of one of the most sensitive issues for Palestinians — the right of at least 5 million refugees and internally displaced people to return to their ancestral homes in what is now Israel.

"I am a refugee, but I am living in Ramallah. I believe that the West Bank and Gaza is Palestine. And the other parts is Israel," Mr Abbas said in the interview on Israel's Channel 2 on Friday. "I want to see Safed. It is my right to see it, but not to live there.

"All what we want is to establish an independent Palestinian state on the territories occupied by Israel in 1967 with East Jerusalem as its capital."


Responding to the widespread condemnation of his comments, Mr Abbas was forced to deny he conceded the right of return for Palestinians, saying he was expressing a personal opinion that did not represent a change in policy.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/world/fury-as-leader-concedes-pillar-of-palestinian-cause-20121105-28sxo.html#ixzz2BKI5xNMc


21 replies, 1908 views

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Arrow 21 replies Author Time Post
Reply Fury as leader concedes pillar of Palestinian cause (Original post)
Violet_Crumble Nov 2012 OP
azurnoir Nov 2012 #1
Violet_Crumble Nov 2012 #4
holdencaufield Nov 2012 #2
Violet_Crumble Nov 2012 #3
-LOKI -BAD FOR YA Nov 2012 #5
shira Nov 2012 #6
Violet_Crumble Nov 2012 #7
shira Nov 2012 #8
Violet_Crumble Nov 2012 #9
shira Nov 2012 #10
Violet_Crumble Nov 2012 #11
aranthus Nov 2012 #13
shira Nov 2012 #14
azurnoir Nov 2012 #15
shira Nov 2012 #17
azurnoir Nov 2012 #18
shira Nov 2012 #19
azurnoir Nov 2012 #20
azurnoir Nov 2012 #16
oberliner Nov 2012 #12
shaayecanaan Nov 2012 #21

Response to Violet_Crumble (Original post)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 02:04 AM

1. well for my part I thought he was playing nice

due to the up coming vote in the UNGA and perhaps answering claims which we've seen here that he (Abbas) says one thing in English and another in Arabic, part of the they want it all scenario

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 03:10 AM

4. He's been pretty pragmatic about the Right of Return for a fair while now...

It'd be difficult to support a two-state solution while insisting that there is a physical right of return that will happen. It's a having yr cake and eating it kind of thing....

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Original post)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 02:51 AM

2. Finally ... reality dawns on Abbas

 

The first hopeful sign I've seen in years.

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 03:04 AM

3. Finally? He's been saying similar things about the Right of Return for years...

Were they just not hopeful signs, or are memories a bit lazy?

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 03:10 AM

5. they realize this maybe their last change at peace,under obama

the shift in the tone coming out of iran is because it better to deal with someone sane,the thought of robme in charge of us.they know him and bibi are friends.the sanctions are working and getting firmer over time.

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Original post)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 03:51 AM

6. Abbas conceded nothing. This is total BS.

 

I wrote on this yesterday. He already reversed himself...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=20387

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Response to shira (Reply #6)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 04:05 AM

7. Oh yeah. I knew it wouldn't take long for the 'they say something else in Arabic' lot to appear...

I'm not surprised that blog clings to that bigoted trope and their followers are so quick to jump on board. I don't think those bigoted fuckers have any clue what they're talking about or what they think Abbas has reversed on. I'd put it down to their frothing at the mouth bigotry blinding them to being able to read simple sentences.

For the record, Abbas has always been a pragmatist when it comes to Right of Return. I was just discussing it with Az. Anyone who wants to claim he isn't has missed spotting a fair bit over the years...

btw, that Elders of Zion blog? You really need to be more selective about where you hang out. That site links to revolting hatefilled bigoted anti-Muslim poison like Jihad Watch....

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #7)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 05:25 AM

8. You appear upset that Abbas was caught lying...

 

I expected a little disappointment from you WRT Abbas.

Something.

Anything... rather than blindly asserting once again in the face of contrary evidence:

For the record, Abbas has always been a pragmatist when it comes to Right of Return. I was just discussing it with Az. Anyone who wants to claim he isn't has missed spotting a fair bit over the years...


Here's the google translation of WAFA Arabic:
http://www.wafa.ps/arabic/index.php?action=detail&id=141328

Palestine membership means the criminalization of international settlement and transfer case of disputed land to the occupied country
Ramallah 11/03/2012 (WAFA) - President Mahmoud Abbas said, he did not and will not give up the right of return, and that the attack according to fragmentary remarks in an interview with Israeli Channel Two, on Friday, came prior to airing the full interview.

He stressed in an interview with the Egyptian satellite life, from the Jordanian capital of Amman, on Saturday evening, 'that all the reactions and comments came before the interview to be broadcast .. The attack began on without a full follow-up interview, and this method biased by some media and a private island, and by some factions that fish in troubled waters .. I do not Alon speak, and newborn for the Palestinians does not differ with him for an Israeli or American or any '.

The sovereignty, 'since 1988, a decision was made in the Palestinian National Council to recognize United Nations resolutions 242 and 338, and repeat this again, until the Arab initiative and came before and after .. All Palestinians agreed on two-state solution, and the Palestinian state on the 1967 borders, and this was approved by Hamas and Islamic Jihad, in the last agreement for reconciliation in Cairo, it was agreed that the 1967 borders, and the peaceful resistance and popular, and the trend towards elections, the presence of 36 members of the executive committee and secretary in Cairo, in January (last January), and announced these points .. No problem in agreeing on the 1967 borders, and East Jerusalem as the capital of the Palestinian state, which was approved by all Arab and Islamic countries.

The President explained: talk about Safed personal position, does not mean waiver of the right of return, and no one can waive the right of return, all international texts and resolutions of Arab and Islamic states just and agreed solution on the issue of refugees in accordance with UN Resolution 194, and the words 'Agreed' means the agreement with the Israeli side.

The sovereignty, six cases the core, including the issue of refugees placed on the table for discussion at the final stage, on the basis of international legitimacy, and the refugee issue on the basis of Resolution 194, and subjected to a popular referendum, either accept people or rejected, as that Resolution 194 provides for the right of return or compensation for those who do not wish to return any that a return is the foundation, and the Arab Peace Initiative, erected on a just and agreed solution to the refugee issue in accordance with the resolution, stressing that the issue of refugees is sacred.

The sovereignty, since the second intifada began was my opinion it wrong and should not continue where they armed, and was my position then blasphemy against the current, and when nominated myself in the elections I am against the armed intifada, however peaceful resistance and negotiations, and I'm convinced to this day that 'no uprising armed ', and all the factions agreed to popular resistance, and even in Gaza fires a rocket Alan shooting him.

The president said: the use of arms violent act, and I do not want to use violence, because I am not convinced, a losing battle with Israel, but that the Popular Resistance make a good impact in terms of world's solidarity with us .. What I have repeated many times and I still, and I said: that no armed uprising in the covenant.

He stressed that the people through their representatives decided consensus on the peaceful popular resistance, including representatives of the forces in Damascus, as Hamas and Islamic Jihad, all of whom stressed the peaceful popular resistance, even if people decided otherwise either accept or not accept.

And booed President Hamas attack on him and said are offered state with provisional borders, and debated and dialogue with Israel and other destinations around the state with temporary borders, a project by Sharon, and still talk about rolling at the competent Israeli, and is based on getting 45 to 50% of West Bank land, with a truce between 10 to 15 years, and this is very dangerous and can not accept.

The President stressed on the direction of the Palestinian leadership to the state is a member of the United Nations, despite the threats, U.S. pressures large, during the month and specifically after the sixth him, stressing his conviction successfully this step, based on the confessions of the majority of the world a Palestinian state on the 1967 borders , and this is what bothers Israel and his to her, especially that a step such criminalization settlement internationally, and officially, and international recognition, and the transfer of the case from the 'disputed territories', as promoted by Israel, to' Palestinian state occupied from another country is Israel.
The sovereignty, President Bush was serious about finding solutions to the Palestinian issue, and sovereignty, said the Americans will not go to the United Nations during the American elections, we do not want Americans to feel that we interfere in their elections.

The President: We want a solution to the Palestinian issue on the basis of two states, according to the 1967 borders, stressing that Hamas does not represent the Palestinian people, and that Ismail Haniyeh does not have any political entity.

He referred to the Palestinian-Egyptian relations are excellent, and that with the opening of the Egyptian border with Gaza to transport necessities and must be closed tunnels.

The sovereignty 'Netanyahu accuses me of waging a terror campaign legal diplomacy on Israel not ruled assassinate me like what happened with the late martyr Abu Ammar', asserting sovereignty we're going to have our rights no matter how long it takes.


I'm curious as to what you do with this information.

Ignore it because of Elder of Ziyon?



Maybe WAFA is lying?

Denial?

Keep deflecting?

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Response to shira (Reply #8)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 05:35 AM

9. I don't get where you get the idea that I'm upset nor that Abbas lied

Okay, I'm a little bit bothered at the way you just totally ignore the bigotry on display at sites you link to, but I can't say I'm surprised at all that yr jumping on board the 'but they say something else in Arabic' train. It is kinda cute how you call him a liar whenever he says something that doesn't fit in the 'all Palestinian leaders are wanna-be genocidal maniacs' that gets constructed...


Now, what on earth do you think he lied about? Rather than posting links to things, how about explaining in yr own words what you think he lied about and how he lied about it. And leave the 'but they say something else in Arabic' crap at the door. That stuff stinks to high heaven, imo...

Based on what you've been going on about, you seem to have totally misread what he said as badly as some Palestinians and other 'supporters' of Israel have. He was talking about his own individual right of return, not the symbolic right of return...

Also, how come when you get pulled up on posting links to stinky sites, you label it 'deflecting', while you do that on a regular basis when it comes to antisemtism? Is there some different standard depending on what sort of bigotry it is that I'm not getting?

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #9)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 05:44 AM

10. Abbas lied. He made you think he was moderate & pragmatic

 

If you wish to ignore or deny the WAFA report, there's more. And I'm pretty certain Elder of Ziyon has nothing to do with the following reports either...

Abbas clarifies: I have not given up demand for Palestinian right of return
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/abbas-clarifies-i-have-not-given-up-demand-for-palestinian-right-of-return.premium-1.474214

But in a follow-up interview with the Egyptian media outlet Al-Hayat on Saturday, Abbas emphasized that those remarks reflected his own personal opinion and should not be taken as policy:

"What I said about Safed is my personal stance. It means nothing about giving up the right of return," he said. "No one would give up their right of return. But all those international formulas, especially that of 194, speak of a just and agreed-upon solution to the refugee issue, and 'agreed-upon' means on the part of Israel."


PA: Abbas did not relinquish right of return
http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=290327

Abbas: I wasn’t giving up right of return; I was just speaking personally
http://www.timesofisrael.com/abbas-i-wasnt-giving-up-right-of-return-i-was-just-speaking-personally/

Abbas backtracks on giving up right of return
http://www.jta.org/news/article/2012/11/04/3111021/abbas-backtracks-on-giving-up-right-of-return



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Response to shira (Reply #10)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 05:53 AM

11. No, he hasn't lied at all. Yr not even bothering to comprehend what he said...

And yet again yr completely different attitude towards a site that links to virulent anti-Muslim bigotry as opposed to how you behave when you find anything linking to something antisemitic is very telling, imo...

For the record, I do think Abbas is pragmatic and moderate. I've seen nothing to indicate otherwise.. I mean, yr even posting a link to something where he explains that he was speaking as an individual, yet yr still calling him a liar. So what exactly do you think he lied about? He said he was speaking as an individual, and anyone with the most basic reading skills would have noticed that...

He has never given up on the symbolic right of return, and it's actually very dishonest for anyone to claim he has. What he's done and been consistent about is saying that the full right of return (that's physical) will never be implemented, and compensation must be part of the solution. Or are you going to claim he's lying when he says that too?

Anyway, guess he's just been lying all these years when it comes to Right of Return, hey? I'm curious, Shira. Is there any actual Palestinian politician in Palestine who you do approve of, and who you don't think is plotting an evil plan to destroy Israel etc?

Here's an old thread from 2005 where he was telling Palestinian factions that the Right of Return couldn't be fully implemented and discussed compensation. Because it's so old the original article is long gone, but you can get the gist of it from the OP

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=88245

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #11)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 12:14 PM

13. I agree. I think he was testing the waters.

Also perhaps sending a signal to the Israelis and Americans. Saying it in English gives him the opening to back out of the statement if he has to. Obviously given the response, he has to. Not lying. Just politics.

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #11)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 03:00 PM

14. Yep, I agree with you. But this story was hyped. There's no news here....

 

Last edited Mon Nov 5, 2012, 04:26 PM - Edit history (1)

Abbas didn't say anything WRT refugee RoR that's newsworthy.

What would be newsworthy is letting Palestinians decide for themselves right now whether they wish for RoR. They should have the same choice NOW that Abbas claims. If they don't want it, they should be allowed to get on with their lives elsewhere.

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Response to shira (Reply #14)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 04:41 PM

15. that is so gracious of you

gracious indeed, and will Israel be so gracious should the Palestinians want RoR? What results are you hoping for and why?

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #15)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 05:48 PM

17. I know if it were up to you, Palestinians would rot another 60 years...

 

...in camps under apartheid conditions throughout the mideast. That's what being "pro-Palestinian" is about, after all. Using millions of Palestinians as political pawns...



They need to get on with their lives outside of Israel. If a peace deal happens, they can get compensation. I know that's not good enough for you or any regressive Mideast regime, but that's the best they're going to get.

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Response to shira (Reply #17)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 06:06 PM

18. "They need to get on with their lives outside of Israel"what are the borders of Israel in your mind

What exactly are you talking about here?

strange though you seem to have no problem with Israel doing exactly what you accuse Arabs of where the Palestinians are concerned, why is that?

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #18)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 07:46 PM

19. Israel is the only mideast country giving civil rights to Palestinians...

 

It's the only nation Palestinians can be a part of the government or supreme court.

Arab regimes should be giving Palestinians citizenship and opportunities like Israel has done with its Palestinians.

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Response to shira (Reply #19)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 11:08 PM

20. you mean Israeli citizens that are of Palestinian descent ?

but don't let that tiny detail slow ya down

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #7)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 04:42 PM

16. wha'd I tell ya?

as if we needed an example

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Original post)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 06:08 AM

12. Looks like the crowd is getting bigger

The fury from that side of the fence is discouraging.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #12)

Tue Nov 6, 2012, 03:12 PM

21. It would be more encouraging if there were similar fury on the other side of the fence...

but there isn't, because the settlers all know that the Israeli leadership isn't the slightest bit inclined to make similar concessions.

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