HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Topics » Foreign Affairs & National Security » Israel/Palestine (Group) » Abbas hints has no "...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 06:04 PM

Abbas hints has no "right of return" to home in Israel

(Reuters) - Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas made a rare if symbolic concession to Israel on Thursday, saying he had no permanent claim on the town from which he was driven as a child during the 1948 war of the Jewish state's founding.

Among several disputes deadlocking Middle East peace talks has been the Palestinians' demand that as many as five million of their compatriots be granted the right to return to lands in Israel that they or their kin lost.

Israel rules this out, fearing an influx of Arabs that would eliminate its Jewish majority, and argues the refugees should resettle in a future Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, territories it occupied in the 1967 war.

Speaking to the top-rated Israeli television newscast, Abbas was asked whether he wanted to live in Safed, his boyhood town in the Galilee region of what had been British-ruled Palestine and is now northern Israel.

"I visited Safed before once. But I want to see Safed. It's my right to see it, but not to live there," Abbas told Channel 2, speaking in English from the West Bank city of Ramallah.

"Palestine now for me is '67 borders, with East Jerusalem as its capital. This is now and forever ... This is Palestine for me. I am (a) refugee, but I am living in Ramallah. I believe that (the) West Bank and Gaza is Palestine and the other parts (are) Israel."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/01/us-palestinians-israel-abbas-refugees-idUSBRE8A01IL20121101

46 replies, 3302 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 46 replies Author Time Post
Reply Abbas hints has no "right of return" to home in Israel (Original post)
oberliner Nov 2012 OP
shaayecanaan Nov 2012 #1
oberliner Nov 2012 #2
Violet_Crumble Nov 2012 #3
oberliner Nov 2012 #5
Violet_Crumble Nov 2012 #7
oberliner Nov 2012 #8
Violet_Crumble Nov 2012 #10
King_David Nov 2012 #12
Violet_Crumble Nov 2012 #14
King_David Nov 2012 #15
Violet_Crumble Nov 2012 #16
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineReply .
King_David Nov 2012 #18
Violet_Crumble Nov 2012 #22
oberliner Nov 2012 #24
King_David Nov 2012 #27
oberliner Nov 2012 #28
oberliner Nov 2012 #19
Violet_Crumble Nov 2012 #21
oberliner Nov 2012 #25
oberliner Nov 2012 #32
shira Nov 2012 #34
oberliner Nov 2012 #39
King_David Nov 2012 #40
oberliner Nov 2012 #41
oberliner Nov 2012 #42
King_David Nov 2012 #13
Violet_Crumble Nov 2012 #17
oberliner Nov 2012 #20
shira Nov 2012 #35
oberliner Nov 2012 #37
Violet_Crumble Nov 2012 #23
oberliner Nov 2012 #26
shaayecanaan Nov 2012 #29
oberliner Nov 2012 #30
King_David Nov 2012 #31
oberliner Nov 2012 #33
shaayecanaan Nov 2012 #43
shira Nov 2012 #38
shira Jan 2013 #45
azurnoir Nov 2012 #4
oberliner Nov 2012 #6
Mr. JJE Nov 2012 #9
oberliner Nov 2012 #11
shira Nov 2012 #36
shira Jan 2013 #44
zellie Jan 2013 #46

Response to oberliner (Original post)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 09:16 PM

1. Thank you for posting this...

I suspect that quite a few people on your side of the fence are going to attempt some kind of seventh-dimension psychoanalysis in order to prove that he couldn't possibly mean what he said.

I do feel sorry for Abbas, notwithstanding all the criticisms that could be made for him. He really is between a rock and a hard place.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to shaayecanaan (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 09:26 PM

2. Abbas is already getting savaged for these remarks by the Electronic Intifada/Mondoweiss crowd

And other like-minded individuals.

Glad whatever fence I'm on the side of doesn't include them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 09:42 PM

3. I just checked mondoweiss and EI and no articles have been posted about it

Could you provide a link to the articles you saw where this happened?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 11:30 PM

5. Ali Abuminah: "Filthy Words"

Ali Abunimah ‏@AliAbunimah

Filthy words. RT @benabyad: Abbas tells Israeli TV: "the West Bank and Gaza is Palestine, everything else is Israel" http://www.haaretz.com

Ali Abunimah ‏@AliAbunimah

Abbas to Israeli TV: As long as I am your puppet I will suppress all Palestinian resistance http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/pa-president-as-long-as-i-am-in-power-there-will-be-no-third-intifada-1.473852

Incidentally, Ali Abunimah is the co-founder and co-editor of Electronic Intifada.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #5)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 11:54 PM

7. One person does not make a crowd

That explains why there were no articles on either site

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #7)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 09:25 AM

8. It's up now

This is from EI contributor, Nour Joudah.

Excerpt:

The next time someone tells me any particular word I choose is too strong or harsh to describe Abbas, I am considering printing the transcript of this interview and slapping said person with it.

And from the comment thread:

Submitted by Jacqueline Husary
I was equally appalled by his normalizing statements to Israeli press...he should be boycotted along with Israeli products...hell it seems he has become one!

Submitted by Yara Abbas
He has absolutely no right to talk on behlf of anyone, and he only talks for himself saying that, and i will correct you by saying he's Mr. EXPIRED president

Submitted by kalle kowa
pa = a bunch of traitors

http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/nour-joudah/good-morning-president-abbas

And Ali's 3 most recent tweets on the article:

Ali Abunimah ‏@AliAbunimah

The vile self-hatred of Abbas where he accepts Zionist racism that bans him from Safad just for not being a Jew.

Ali Abunimah ‏@AliAbunimah

It's not so much the words that shock, but the calculated determination to renounce Palestinian rights no matter what

Ali Abunimah ‏@AliAbunimah

Truly under Abbas, "PLO" stands for Palestine Liquidation Organization

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #8)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 05:02 PM

10. When you claimed there was a crowd yesterday, there was only one...

Even now, a few people does not make a crowd. Picking up one or two comments posted by people is getting really picky, especially when trying to portray them as somehow being representative of people who hang out at a site...

Everyone's worked out yr fascinated with EI and Mondoweiss, but have you been looking at 'supporters' of Israel to see what they're doing with it? I'm half expecting them to ignore it and pretend Abbas never said it, as it's impossible to peddle him as wanting to 'drive the Jews into the sea' and destroy Israel when he says things like that...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #10)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 06:39 PM

12. Its up now



As he said

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to King_David (Reply #12)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:07 PM

14. It's not and hasn't been a crowd.

Oops. Am I bullying you by daring to reply to one of yr posts responding to me?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #14)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:15 PM

15. Nope ...

I can not be bullied ... I can't be stereotyped you know ?


But it is beautiful weather in Sydney ...little cloudy .. Not too hot and not too cold

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to King_David (Reply #15)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:20 PM

16. That's nice to know. Yr pretense I was bullying you was pretty ridiculous...

Adding to the pointless chit-chat about weather. It's actually pretty chilly here today compared to usual...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #16)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:26 PM

18. .

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to King_David (Reply #18)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 11:12 PM

22. Just keep on repeating this: 'someone disagreeing with me does not equal bullying'

You'll get it eventually..

Enjoy the rest of yr evening...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #22)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 07:28 AM

24. Another EI-er weighs in

Asa Winstanley ‏@AsaWinstanley

Abbas goes on Israeli TV and personally renounces his right to return. And yet he still didn't grovel enough for Israelis. Bow lower, kalb

I believe kalb means dog in Arabic.

So that's a British White Non-Palestinian (and Electronic Intifada editor) calling Abbas (actual Palestinian who lives in Ramallah) a dog, in Arabic.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #24)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 10:08 AM

27. Amazing how the "cause " has been adopted

To the extent that she has become more Palestinian than any Palestinian.

With even more outrage..

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to King_David (Reply #27)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 10:24 AM

28. Asa is a "he"

Here's his Twitter account (with photo):

https://de.twitter.com/AsaWinstanley

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #10)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:35 PM

19. More from the crowd

There were lots the other day from the EI/Mondoweiss crowd on twitter. Then within a day an article/blog post is featured on EI. And the tweets keep rolling in.

Check hashtag #abbas for some more tweets from the crowd if you are interested. If I point them all out to you, you'll probably just say that proves how "obsessed" I am.

And I do appreciate that it's hard to call the number of Mondoweiss/EI users a "crowd" since they are far from numerous - but I hope you will acknowledge that some are pretty angry with Abbas for this.

Of course, none moreso than their fearless leader Ali Abuminah.

His tweets, I hope you would agree, are pretty definitive on the matter.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #19)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 11:11 PM

21. There was no 'crowd' and there probably still isn't...

I don't do Twitter, especially following around people I don't like...

So, want to discuss the reaction (or possible lack of it) from 'supporters' of Israel? I did mention it, but I see you ignored it...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #21)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 07:36 AM

25. The crowd rolls on

#Abbas' treacherous statements coincided with the anniversary of history's most treacherous incident: the Balfour Declaration. #Balfour

Rawan Murad ‏@RwnMurad
Save the planet, kill yourself! #abbas

+972 Magazine ‏@972mag
#Palestinians furious with #Abbas for giving up #refugees’ right to return,

Rana ‏@RanaGaza
Yesterday was #Abbas's treacherous declaration. Today is the 95 anniversary of the contemptuous Balfour Declaration.

Asa Winstanley ‏@AsaWinstanley
Goddamn you Abbas. We don't want in Ramallah either, by the way. I long to kick your ass out

It's like you don't want to believe something so you just repeat "it's not there" over and over again in spite of the mountain of evidence.

It's almost pathological.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #21)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 04:37 PM

32. One or two of the Richard Silverstein-ers are joining in the attacks on Abbas

Deïr Yassin November 3, 2012 at 3:45 AM

Abu Mazen sells out his Right of Return on Israeli television. Well, he’s free to do so if he prefers to stay in his villa in Ramallah, but the ROR is an individual inalienable right.

mary November 3, 2012 at 3:58 AM

Abu Mazen’s cheap political posturing doesn’t fool anyone. He condemned the shooting of rockets into Gaza, which was a divisive statement meant to curry favor with the Israelis. As always, he is a quisling.

http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2012/11/02/turkeys-erdogan-to-break-gaza-siege/#comments

And those are totally off topic remarks - wonder if they'll be booted...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #32)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 04:55 PM

34. Yeah! Keep the refugees in apartheid camps for another 60 years!

Nasty folks.

Lower than the lowest.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #21)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 12:47 AM

39. Another new article posted on EI about Abbas's comments (plus a cartoon from Carlos Latuff)

Despite Abbas and Balfour, we will return to our homes in Palestine

Excerpt:

Abbas’ Balfour Declaration

On the anniversary of Balfour Declaration, Mahmoud Abbas came with another declaration competing with Balfour’s.

I felt sick when I first read an article about it. I could imagine Abbas saying this. At the same time, I wished that it could be fabricated news that he had renounced his — and our — right to return to our homes and villages. Then I saw the interview when he uttered those shameful statements, and I couldn’t believe what I heard. I am sure that the majority of Palestinian people and people of conscience worldwide were as frustrated as me.

http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/shahd-abusalama/despite-abbas-and-balfour-we-will-return-our-homes-palestine

Also note Carlos Latuff's cartoon image of Abbas as an IDF soldier.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #39)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 01:56 AM

40. Disgusting Cartoon by Latuff

Another who is more Palestinian than any Palestinian.

There seems to be a lot of them.


(strange the caption under the cartoon says ''Carlus Lattuf’s reflective catroon on Abbas’s latest declarations'
yet the cartoon is signed Latuff 2011 )

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to King_David (Reply #40)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 06:08 AM

41. Good catch

Latuff first posted that cartoon in January 2011, and it is meant to depict Abbas as a militant Israeli settler. It seems to have been in reaction to the publication of the "Palestine Papers". Guess he's been hating on Abbas for a while now.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #21)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 09:56 PM

42. Now a third article on this is up at Electronic Intifada

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #8)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 06:44 PM

13. 'The vile self-hatred of Abbas '

Ha Ha Ha....

Imagine if a Jew said that about Chomsky, Weiss,Silverstein, Adam Shapiro,Klein,Levy,Hass,Atzmon etc...

(there are not that many, I was at a loss to think of more ... lol )

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to King_David (Reply #13)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:21 PM

17. Chomsky's been accused plenty of times of being a self-hating Jew n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #17)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 08:52 PM

20. Do you agree with Abunimah's characterization of Abbas?

I'd also be curious to know your own perspective on the remarks in the OP.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #20)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 04:57 PM

35. Abunimah prefers Hamas over Fatah. So do all his groupies. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to shira (Reply #35)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 05:03 PM

37. He's pretty open about that

But hey, he scolded Greta Berlin so it's all good.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #2)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 12:32 AM

23. Look what Elder of Ziyon has to say....

'Abbas is defining himself as a refugee who chooses not to return under UNGA 194. But that in no way limits how the Arab world (mis)interprets UNGA 194, and therefore it does not impact the PLO's negotiating position in the least.

This way Abbas can continue the long Arab game of telling gullible Westerners what they want to hear without actually saying what they want so desperately to believe he said.'

http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com.au/2012/11/did-abbas-renounce-so-called-right-of.html

That's one to go in the 'he didn't really mean it' pile...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #23)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 07:38 AM

26. Yes, that crowd will always believe that Abbas is full of it

The Elder of Ziyon crowd is going with their usual argument: "He says one thing in English and one thing in Arabic.."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #23)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 01:08 PM

29. Called it...

Amazing the desperate gymnastics that the hasbarados contort themselves into whenever Abbas expresses his position on refugees. He has made it clear, time and time again, that he does not expect Israel to absorb more than a very limited number of refugees.

During the 2008 negotiations, the Palestinians offered that the number of refugees be limited to 150 000, a revelation that was leaked when the Palestine papers were published. The hasbarados claimed that that was of no significance because the wording allowed for a potential increase at some future time if Israel agreed to it, and therefore it was still possible that all five million refugees could gain entry into Israel.

Obviously, the fact that Israel would never agree to that, and that therefore the 150 000 would be all the refugees that would be permitted to return, made that a fairly dishonest claim to make. But honesty has never really been a priority for these people.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to shaayecanaan (Reply #29)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 02:18 PM

30. Hasbardos!

Odd how you sat out the discussion from the anti-hasbarados on your side of the fence.

Do you have a clever name for Ali Abunimah and his ilk?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #30)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 04:27 PM

31. Hasbardos

sounds like a Mexican Restuarant I frequent.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to King_David (Reply #31)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 04:45 PM

33. I think it was coined by a Mondoweiss commenter named "Taxi"

I believe that is the originator. I see comments on Mondoweiss using that term in early 2010. I think the poster above introduced it here soon thereafter and now uses it repeatedly (as does the Mondoweiss commenter). Maybe they are the same person?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #33)

Tue Nov 6, 2012, 03:03 AM

43. We just attend the same Lodge...

and shag the same goat. I'd do anything for my Brother Taxi.

Seriously, you need to take craft classes or something. Remember our forum motto: "the stakes are very low". Repeat thrice, then tap your ruby slippers if you like.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to shaayecanaan (Reply #29)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 05:04 PM

38. When has Abbas expressed this opinion on refugees to the Palestinian people?

In Arabic?

Oh yeah, never. In fact, Abbas just set the record straight once again on refugees; making it quite clear he holds to the Hamas position:

Abbas explicitly affirms the "right of return," says Israel might assassinate him
http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2012/11/abbas-explicitly-affirms-right-of.html

http://www.wafa.ps/arabic/index.php?action=detail&id=141328

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to shaayecanaan (Reply #29)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 07:31 AM

45. You called it? Abbas just said recently Palestinian Syrian refugees can drop dead....

...rather than renounce their RoR.

What did you call?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Original post)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 10:03 PM

4. Interesting indeed

considering comments here made mere hours apart, is there a point to these conflicting opinions?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113420215#post1

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to azurnoir (Reply #4)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 11:32 PM

6. Fire up the brain cells!

It might be a little too complex, but reasonable people on both sides (i.e. Abbas, myself) realize that compromise will be necessary.

Unreasonable people (militant settlers, religious fanatics, Hamas) will never be satisfied with any solution.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 03:57 PM

9. There has never, ever been a right to return

Native Americans : No right to Return
Jews of Europe: Didnt get their homes back

Not that desserts have the right to ask for anything, but why do the Palestinians assume they will get a consideration that no people ever on this planet have been given ...ever?

Had they stayed and fought for Israel, instead of running to other countries, hoping to return as war profiteers, they would be citizens of Israel. The deserted, on the request of the Arab Nations. They gambeled. They lost. It sucks. But thats what happens when you gamble and lose.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 05:10 PM

11. Hamas fiercely slams Abbas' anti-right of return statement

Excerpt:

Hamas Response

In Gaza, Hamas denounced Abbas, saying he spoke only for himself. The Islamist movement does not recognise Israel and has regularly exchanged fire with it.

"No Palestinian would accept ceding the right of our people to return to homes, villages and towns from which they were displaced," said Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri.

"If Abu Mazen (Abbas) does not want Safed, Safed would be honoured not to host people like him."

Izzat al-Rishq, member of the Islamist movement's Political Bureau, pointed out that no one has to take a decision about the right of the Palestinians refugees to return to their homeland without their consent.

"The Palestinian territory is not exposed to compromise or negotiation; Abbas is speaking about himself only," he said.

The Spokesman of the Hamas government in Gaza Taher El-Nounou ironically said that the statement of Abbas makes no difference than the 1917 Balfour Declaration, adding that Abbas "takes advantage" of every opportunity to grant legitimacy to Israel and express his opposition to the concept of armed resistance.

"If we revised the words of Abbas and the Balfour Declaration, we'll find both moving in notable consistency," El-Nounou stated.

http://english.ahram.org.eg/News/57002.aspx

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #11)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 05:03 PM

36. A large segment of the anti-zionist Left supports Hamas WRT this issue

Like Hamas, they wouldn't mind seeing refugees rotting another 60 years in apartheid camps throughout the Arab world. The sole purpose being that these political pawns could be used to flood Israel and eventually cause a civil war, destroy it, and have it replaced by yet another Islamic theocracy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 07:29 AM

44. Abbas moderating? He'd rather see refugees from Syria die than give up RoR....

Love all the ridiculous remarks here about Abbas' moderation.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to shira (Reply #44)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 07:55 AM

46. Oh yes, he's a moderate.

 

Suuure.

Any real moderates are being wiped out by being labeled "collaborators" and in Gaza given a free motorcycle ride.

Good way to keep any dissent away.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread