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Thu Aug 23, 2012, 08:44 AM

 

Up to 300,000 Palestinians visit Israel for Ramadan

Last edited Thu Aug 23, 2012, 10:00 AM - Edit history (1)

Up to 300,000 Palestinians visit Israel for Ramadan

Trend causes significant economic damage to Palestinian vendors who lost untold customers – local Palestinians who took their business to Israel.


Israel and the PA share an interest in preserving the unprecedented level of security that continues today on the West Bank, and this interest is presumably the cause of such close cooperation between the second-rank Israeli and PA officials. This story of cooperation between Israeli and PA figures is well captured by end-of-Ramadan images in Tel Aviv: yesterday, thousands of Palestinians from all parts of the West Bank, from Jenin in the north to Hebron and Bethlehem in the south, enjoyed the final hours of Id al-Fitr on the Tel Aviv beaches. Just a few years ago such an image would have seemed unimaginable in view of continuing strife in the West Bank and violent tensions between Palestinians and Israelis.

However, the quiet that has since taken hold, reinforced by close cooperation between officials from the two sides, allowed hundreds of thousands of Palestinians this month to make their first visit to Israel in years. PA figures indicate that during the Ramadan month, some 300,000 Palestinians entered Israel in coordinated visits. Israeli officials cite a lower yet nonetheless staggering figure of 200,000. Ironically, this trend caused significant economic damage to Palestinian vendors who lost untold customers – local Palestinians who took their business to Israel.

The easing of restrictions on entry permits to Israel were unlikely to impress critics in the international community or human rights organization workers. However, it is impossible to dismiss the implications of these images of Palestinian visitors to Tel Aviv beaches, or the Malha shopping mall in Jerusalem, during the Ramadan holiday. Steps taken by Israeli officials – such as allowing younger Palestinian men to enter the country – were less media-friendly than dramatic gestures such as prisoner releases, yet these changes may have significantly improved the atmosphere between the two sides, as well as the feelings of average Palestinians.



more...
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/up-to-300-000-palestinians-visit-israel-for-ramadan.premium-1.459810

Big time BDS failure...

Total Apartheid washing...



And for some odd reason, this wonderful news doesn't rate Internationally. Guess it's a narrative buster and pure Israeli hasbara. It's hard portraying the Israelis as evil incarnate if the International Press runs with it. So, better to not report it. Report instead on checkpoint humiliation or bogus Israeli attack plans vs. Iran...

33 replies, 4355 views

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Arrow 33 replies Author Time Post
Reply Up to 300,000 Palestinians visit Israel for Ramadan (Original post)
shira Aug 2012 OP
oberliner Aug 2012 #1
Scootaloo Aug 2012 #2
oberliner Aug 2012 #3
azurnoir Aug 2012 #4
pelsar Sep 2012 #6
azurnoir Sep 2012 #10
pelsar Sep 2012 #15
azurnoir Sep 2012 #17
pelsar Sep 2012 #18
shira Sep 2012 #19
azurnoir Sep 2012 #20
shira Sep 2012 #21
pelsar Sep 2012 #22
azurnoir Sep 2012 #23
pelsar Sep 2012 #24
azurnoir Sep 2012 #25
pelsar Sep 2012 #26
azurnoir Sep 2012 #28
oberliner Sep 2012 #7
azurnoir Sep 2012 #8
holdencaufield Sep 2012 #11
shira Sep 2012 #12
holdencaufield Sep 2012 #13
King_David Sep 2012 #14
pelsar Sep 2012 #16
zellie Sep 2012 #5
azurnoir Sep 2012 #9
oberliner Sep 2012 #27
azurnoir Sep 2012 #29
oberliner Sep 2012 #30
azurnoir Sep 2012 #31
oberliner Sep 2012 #32
azurnoir Sep 2012 #33

Response to shira (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2012, 02:54 AM

1. So much potential

Israelis and Palestinians ought to wrap their minds around the fact that they themselves have the most to gain from peaceful relations with one another.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 24, 2012, 07:51 AM

2. Ain't that the truth

Too bad so many people are too full of hatred or fear, and refuse to allow that to happen, isn't it?

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #2)

Fri Aug 24, 2012, 10:19 AM

3. Yes indeed

Couldn't agree with you more.

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Response to shira (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2012, 10:41 AM

4. yes the Israeli government was most gracious in allowing Muslims access to their holy sites in

Jerusalem they lowered the age for males to be allowed in from 45 years old to 40 years old and not once did the media make such a generous gesture a front page news article

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #4)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 11:49 AM

6. history lesson time again...

a "few years" back, the Palestinians had access to all of their holy sites as well as traveling around israel....

and then for reasons of their own, many of their younger 16-40 yrs starting attacking and killing israelis.

now israel being the non democratic/theocratic almost "N' in character country that it is, started to (yikes! the dreaded "P" word) profile....and the attacks went down

However being of "devious nature" those tricky Palestinians decided to use younger kids and even "older ladies to transport their bombs...and after a few more dead israelis, the restrictions went up as did the addition of additional checkpoints.

as the attempts have lessoned (to kill israelis) the restrictions are loosened as well in a limited fashion, since we're pretty sensitive about being killed (yes i know, its a character/cultural flaw of israelis, hopefully we'll learn to get over it and let other kills us without us bothering them.)

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Response to pelsar (Reply #6)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 12:47 PM

10. yes the second Intifada excuses everything we know we know n/t

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #10)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 03:20 AM

15. yes it does...until

the risk is reduced.....again that history thing: for those who dont know, the attacks upon israeli citizens comes and goes in waves. There can be calm for a few years, where security is reduced (as per the above article) and then for various reasons (political/miitary) there is a new outburst of killing of israeli citizens. And then the Israeli govt has to scramble to revise is security systems to reduce the new killing spree.

This is has been going on for over 60 years now, so anybody who has the most basic knowledge of the conflict and is not closed off for ideological/religious reasons, knows this and understand the dilemma faced by the israeli security forces and the citizens of israel.

but again, its just history......(not for everyone)

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Response to pelsar (Reply #15)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 04:46 PM

17. Haggai Matar - Rethinking the security narrative

While the numbers of Palestinians who made it through over these few weekends are astonishing, the mere entry of unauthorized people into Israel is in no way a new phenomenon. In recent months I published the 12-part series “The Wall,” and dedicated one of the chapters to the tens of thousands of workers entering Israel daily, almost half of them illegally. Yet another chapter examined the effects of the wall on Israeli security, and showed how the cessation of suicide attacks has been made possible, amongst other reasons, thanks to a decision on the Palestinian side, and how attacks can resume without the unfinished wall stopping them.

Events of the recent Ramadan only strengthened these points. Masses of Palestinians who are regularly denied freedom of movement were given it for a brief period of time – and nothing happened. No attacks on Israelis registered, or breeches in national security noted. And then Ramadan ended, and most of these people are now once again trapped in the huge prison compound that is the West Bank, while few of them continue putting themselves at risk of arrest or injury as they sneak into Israel for work.

This absurd state of affairs requires that Israelis rethink the security narrative of the conflict today, and the ongoing siege and permit regime. As the state recently announced that it would resume construction of the wall we must be more critical of this project and its extreme impact on civilian population, its enormous costs in a time of international economic crisis and its dangerous effects on the viability of future peace agreements and on possible international pressure on Israel. The masses that entered Israel this Ramadan could help us form the tools for such criticism.


http://972mag.com/mass-entry-of-palestinians-into-israel-calls-for-new-approach-to-permit-regime/54981/

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #17)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 05:05 PM

18. same syndrome....forgetting history

Masses of Palestinians who are regularly denied freedom of movement were given it for a brief period of time – and nothing happened. No attacks on Israelis

this is nothing special...the Palestinians have had various levels of freedom in israel, and then at one point or another the violence starts again (history). The terrorists are not stupid and also have learned to take advantage of the changes in policy.

does the author not know that there was a period of no wall? of tons of checkpoints? of virtually no checkpoints?

does the author and and others have that ability to read the future and know that, that after 60 years of attacking israeli civilians, its now ended? Always impressed me this ability.

all hes got for his proof is a single brief trip.......and if there are more and israelis die as they have in the past when security was loosened whats he going to say? oops? (somehow i doubt it).

there is a lot more to changing security provisions than a single trip by Palestinians to Tel Aviv Beaches.

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Response to pelsar (Reply #18)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 06:17 PM

19. Israel should allow rocketeers from Gaza access into the country too...

 

No security risk there either.

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Response to pelsar (Reply #18)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 06:19 PM

20. I would wager that the line between

"forgetting history" and clinging to the past is indeed quite thin as Matar is going on more recent history rather than a need to punish past wrongs for an indeterminate amount of time where one has the power to do anyway with very little cost involved

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #20)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 06:46 PM

21. Good, now suppose you're in charge in Israel...

 

...and you're able to allow far more Palestinians access into Israel.

Suicide bombings start up again.

What do you say? "Gosh, sorry!"

What do you do? Nothing, in order to not collectively punish Palestinians?

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #20)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 02:19 AM

22. of course its an "indeterminate amount of time".

...are you now going to claim that you can read the future? and you know that in a certain amount of time, attitudes will change, education will change, and peace will prevail?

why is it, that so many people have this ability to read the future and i don't?...did i leave the states too early?


"where one has the power to do anyway with very little cost involved.."

of so you mean like all of those israelis killed on busses and resturants after the restrictions were lifted last time? (after olso) so little cost....

...and if we could go back in time, (maybe those who can read the future can also do that as well?) i would bet we would see the same posts and they would include mine as well...the difference is that some of learn from the past, others cant get past their ideology no matter what happens.

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Response to pelsar (Reply #22)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 02:44 AM

23. you're asking for a near 100% guarantee that no attacks will happen

something that is of course impossible but I think you know that too so the choice is under the heading of security punish the Palestinians until.......???????

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #23)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 06:16 AM

24. i don't need near 100%....

thats your definition.....i understand it helps your argument if you decide the other options are impossible.

and yes...we certainly get our kicks out of "punishing the Palestenians"...i actually have no idea what that actually means, but i'm sure its so deep within our psych/need that if i look hard enough i'll "find it" within our culture.

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Response to pelsar (Reply #24)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 02:24 PM

25. well then lets hear your definition I was going by what you've been saying here-for years

now as to punishment it does seem that way, but maybve it is also beening in a position of power for a very long time as shown here

Palestinian teen assaulted by soldiers detained for a month without cause

Last month, Mairav Zionszein posted a video showing a young Palestinian being assaulted and detained by a group of soldiers, most of them in civilian clothing. The incident happened at checkpoint 56 in the Tel Rumeida neighborhood of Hebron.

After several Hebrew media outlets featured the clip, the IDF Spokesperson released the following comment:

The video does not accurately depict the course of events that occurred yesterday. During routine activity in Hebron, a Palestinian individual refused to identify himself to soldiers following their request. The Palestinian individual confronted IDF forces on the scene, an incident which doesn’t appear in the video; other soldiers not on duty, who happened to be in the area, witnessed the confrontation and came to the aid of the soldiers on scene.

IDF sources also told the Hebrew media that the detained Palestinian, whose name is ‘Abd al-’Aziz Fakhouri, was wanted for interrogation.

However, this week, after almost a month in custody, a military judge ordered Fakhouri’s immediate release, following the discovery of another video by human rights organization B’Tselem. The new clip clearly shows that one soldier mistakenly thought that the Palestinian has cursed him, and as a result he and the other soldiers assaulted the man.


&feature=player_embedded

http://972mag.com/palestinian-assaulted-by-soldier-detained-for-a-month-without-cause/55856/

Noam Sheizaf served in IDF himself and I doubt Haggai Matar 'forgot' history he was in prison in 2002 for being a 'refusnik'


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Response to azurnoir (Reply #25)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 07:42 AM

26. its not the numbers....its the intent....

the numbers of assaults will drop when there is a change in attitude. There will always be those outside/inside that are attempting to stir up violence as a means to change, be it the fanatical muslims with iran or khana types from Booklyn. When they are rejected by the govts, that is when you'll see change.

the physcial acts of withdrawal, or lessor checkpoints have proven to do nothing to move toward a long lasting peace settlement. They are simply cycles in an endless cycle....and when the violence starts up again, the Palestenians loose even more after taking advantage of the change.

its just history, simple history of the last 60 years. The obvious proofs are both gaza and oslo (and lebanon), neither physical acts of lesssor restrictions produced any change in attitude from the PA/PLO etc toward israel. Change occurred with Egypt and Jordan when they decided to make a change, and they made it very clear. That same attitude is what the PA has to do, nothing ambitious or vage and followed up with action. (from a personal point of view, when they tell the ISM and friends etc that they are no longer welcome, for me that would be the watershed moment, but thats just my own personal viewpoint).

the sad reality is that only when the Palestinians have an actual say in their govt policies will we have a better idea of which direction they want to go in. It may be as in egypt and gaza toward the MB, shari law or it maybe a brand new direction toward a western democracy and acceptance of israel. But until that is actually sorted out, there is no real reason to believe anything that happens as nothing more than temporary. Hence the security restrictions are justified.

the Palestinians and their real friends have some work to do to get there.
___

as far as the false arrests etc..that just the natural outcome of an occupation and "military justice" which is hardly "just." But thats a long cry from some govt policy or "punishing the whole Palestenians people.

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Response to pelsar (Reply #26)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 12:25 PM

28. when the Palestinians have a "change in attitude" towards IDF? yep sort of like when the Jews

Palestine had a 'change of attitude' towards British soldiers, ya I' ll agree with that

but it is nice to see you used this to work in some attempt to "influence" using the proper 'buzz words' sharia law Muslim Brotherhood Western Democracy.... as I told another poster awhile back the 'W" word may change but the thought behind it does not apparently

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #4)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 12:18 PM

7. Tel Aviv beaches are Muslim holy sites?

Fascinating.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #7)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 12:44 PM

8. Israeli police taser attack on Palestinian caught on video (Tel Aviv beach)

A Palestinian resident of East Jerusalem has filed a complaint of police misconduct after an officer shocked him six times with an electric taser gun at a water park in Tel Aviv on Tuesday.

He was handcuffed on the ground during the tasering, and his wife and five children were unfortunate onlookers. The whole incident was caught on video and has been making the rounds in the Israeli media.


http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/24/13461063-israeli-police-taser-attack-on-palestinian-caught-on-video#comments

the article from 8/23 and has 114 comments I am sure if your diligent something antisemitic can be found


2 Arab teens reportedly assaulted in Tel Aviv

Two east Jerusalem teens are claiming they were assaulted by three men in Tel Aviv earlier this week in what could be another case of racist violence after last week's Jerusalem lynch. One suffered a head injury and required eight stitches and the other sustained light wounds.

Suhib Hushia, 19, said he and his friend were assaulted on their way back from a Tel Aviv beach as they stopped at a parking lot to ask for directions.

"Suddenly three armed men approached us and started yelling at us," he recalled. "We explained we were looking for directions but they shouted at us to leave."

According to Hushia, one of the men was wearing a spike glove and slapped his friend. The three then assaulted Hushia using various objects he was unable to see.


http://www.israelpalestinenews.com/2012_08_23_two_palestinians_attacked_in_tel_aviv.php

yes fascinating indeed

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Response to oberliner (Reply #7)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 08:20 PM

11. Apparently, they are ...

 



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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #11)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 09:30 PM

12. I'll do you one better...

 

Hot Israeli chick with gun occupies internet
http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/routine-emergencies/hot-israeli-chick-with-gun-occupies-internet-1.433693



Bet she enjoys participating in the very evil collective punishment of Palestinian orphans and widows.

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Response to shira (Reply #12)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 09:32 PM

13. This is why ...

 

... I'm a firm believer in the Right to Keep and Bear Arms (2nd Amendment)

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Response to shira (Reply #12)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 11:45 PM

14. Ha Ha nt

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Response to shira (Reply #12)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 07:32 AM

16. this one tops yours....

http://www.youtube.com/user/pelsar

no 2 the "girls of hte IDF-C48

nobody and i mean nobody beats the girl on the far left.....nobody

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Response to shira (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 10:10 AM

5. I'm sure we missed the "300,000 Israelis visit WB "

 

can anyone find that article?

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Response to zellie (Reply #5)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 12:46 PM

9. you mean the 300,000 Israeli's in the West Bank are just visiting?

my gosh I was led to believe they lived there, perhaps there's some hope after all oh BTW B'Teslem says its more like 350,000

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #9)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 08:49 AM

27. That seems low

Are you excluding East Jerusalem?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #27)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 12:27 PM

29. If I had included Jerusalem the number would have been more like 575,000-625,000

but the poster only mentioned the West Bank so I went with that

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #29)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 07:29 PM

30. So you don't consider any of Jerusalem to be part of the West Bank?

I am surprised.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #30)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 07:37 PM

31. why are you surprised?

I've never said that in fact I am not in favor of either side having total control over at least East Jerusalem West Jerusalem if you wish to separate them is of course totally Israel's

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #31)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 08:25 PM

32. B'tselem disagrees

They consider East Jerusalem to be part of the West Bank and I thought you concurred with them on that.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #32)

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 08:28 PM

33. No I don't thinkI 100% concur with anybody

on just about anything for that matter really I guess I just have a contrary nature, bet you'd never have guessed

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