Occupation, Not Culture, Is Holding Palestinians Back

NY Times is really going all out with publishing the extremes these days.

The Palestinian businessman talks about his mansion atop the ‘mountain of mercy’

The Palestinian city of Nablus sprawls between Mount Ebal (Mountain of Curse), and Mount Gerizim (Mountain of Mercy) in the northern West Bank. At the top of Mount Gerizim, and impossible to miss, is the home of Palestinian businessman and philanthropist Munib R al-Masri. Beit Falasteen (Home of Palestine), was inspired by Palladio’s Rotonda in Vicenza, Italy and its elegant limestone form is in sharp contrast to the dusty city below.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/d208790e-b636-11e1-8ad0-00144feabdc0.html#axzz22ZbeflHI

Are you going to refute the article, or just bitch and moan about the author? There's content there. Go read it, then get back to us, thanks.

I am desperate to get people not to accept any article at face value without doing a minimum of digging into who wrote it and why. This multi-billionaire speaking for the "Palestinian street" from a mansion on the hill is beyond insulting.

Who do you think should be writing on behalf of the "Palestinian Street"? As even you seem to notice, the people on that street aren't exactly living in the land of opportunity, and so very likely don't have access to say... the New York Times editorial page.

If you find this beyond insulting, I can't wait to see your livid outrage directed at other people here on IP that post Team Israel sources purporting to speak for or about the "Palestinian Street." Funny that you haven't once expressed even a mote of irritability over that.

Nope. it's just when an (albeit rich) Palestinian points out hey, the Occupation is fucking over the palestinians, that you suddenly find this kernel of ire, this little grain of need for disclosure.

Funny, that.

Isi Liebler...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113415594

btw, what's beyond insulting is American 'supporters' of Israel acting as though they can select which Palestinians can speak about how things affect Palestinians...

Both Romney and Masri seem to be indulging in bigoted stereotypes.

But then from the little that I know of Masri as a politician, I suspect that 'Masri' could well be the Arabic translation of 'Rmoney'.

He is right that the Occupation is far more important than 'culture' in affecting Palestinian progress. Though he is omitting the raw deal they've also had from other states in the Middle East.

Which is the general impression I've gotten as well when it comes to US pro-Israel groups that do things like rate the politicians on how Israel-friendly they are.

I kind of suspect that in addressing an American audience, there's no real reason to point out that other states have some responsibility, as there's a general acceptance that's the case. When it comes to US readers, it's getting many of them to realise that the Occupation is holding back the Palestinians that's the problem...

In fact, he managed to gain enormous amounts of wealth under it.

How? By being friends with the right people and taking advantage of others.

just some groups in the US that are poor or at least according to some

A small group of wealthy insiders like the author of the OP became rich the old fashioned way - by being connected.

Those other Palestinians did not get anywhere near the same sorts of opportunities afforded this gentleman.

Romney in the US is an example of the advantage of being just such an insider - people like him and the author of this piece are peas in a pod.

unless of course this simply a means of hijacking a thread

No billionaire has the right to speak for "the street" - they just don't have a clue.

This is not a thread hijack, it's a public service. The people reading this OP ought to know some thing about the person who wrote it.

An article about the perspective of the Palestinian street written by a multi-billionaire who lives in a mansion costing hundreds of millions of dollars ought to be considered with that in mind.

the Kennedy family would be an example

He's got them all beat by a wide margin.

and in fact made a good deal of his money was made during the time the West Bank was under Jordanian control, if you read his bio down thread his formative years were spent elsewhere the US and Jordan to name but 2 and being employed by oil companies

Dig a little deeper. Forget the bio he wants you to read. Find a book. Learn more.

His money was made by being connected to Arafat.

unless you can not?

Maybe this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Arafat-Defender-Dictator-Said-Aburish/dp/B0000DK4HL

You can get it used for under 2 dollars.

a biography of Arafat really? so this is now about Arafat?

I didn't realise up till this point that you had some dislike of any author of an article who earns a shitload of money.

I've got two questions for you.

1. Do you agree or disagree with what he said about it not being culture, but Occupation that holds back the Palestinians?

2. Do you have anything to base yr repeated claims that this guy = Romney or that he's a bigot?

You think he earned that money? Would you say the same thing about Romney?

1. I disagree. It is neither Occupation nor culture that holds back the Palestinians. The Palestinians as a group are not held back. Some are quite successful, others not, still others wealthy beyond anyone's wildest dreams (like the author of the OP).

2. He is the Palestinian Romney in that he is insanely wealthy, lives ostentatiously, and is completely out of touch with reality. His bigotry is evident in his writing.

You never seem to be worried about how wealthy they are. I don't know, nor particularly care, about whether you think he earned his money. I'm interested in what he says as a Palestinian, and I'm going to pay far more credence to a Palestinian businessman than I am to American 'supporters' of Israel when it comes to Palestinian culture...

1. Thanks for the honest answer. Anyone who thinks the Palestinians aren't held back by the Occupation are either ignoring facts right in front of their face, or ignorant of the effects of the Occupation. The Palestinians, like all other people under occupation, are held back by being occupied by a belligerant military power. Whether it's education, trade, or the ability to deal at an international level as a peer with states, the effects are there...

2. Malcolm Turnbull, an Australian businessman/politician who is a multimillionaire, would then be an Australian Romney? See, he's filthy rich, lives ostentatiously (not sure if the Palestinian guy does, btw), and like the Palestinian guy wrote an article about issues that affect Palestinians, writes articles about issues that affect Australians. To label people like that Romney is either trying to minimise the sheer ugliness and stupidity of Romney, or it's showing a complete ignorance of the rest of the world by thinking along the lines of 'I don't like that person. They're rich. They must be Romney!!' And when it comes to yr accusations of bigotry, there's no bigotry in that article.

The Duke of Nablus?

Slideshow: Munib al-Masri’s mansion

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/4673705c-ba18-11e1-aa8d-00144feabdc0.html#axzz22ZbeflHI

To your other points, there are lots of wealthy supporters of Israel. I generally don't take Israeli billionaires too seriously if they try to speak on behalf of the Israeli people. I'd much rather hear from one of the Occupy Tel Aviv folks. And I'd say they probably have a much better handle on reality.

Second, I am glad you appreciate honesty. I do always post my honest opinion on here, though I try to do so respectively. I know the effects of the occupation, I daresay, I am more aware of them than you are. Certainly there are obstacles to success - but they can be overcome, as is evidenced by this billionaire and numerous other wealthy Palestinians. Every person not born into privilege faces obstacles in life. Israelis face obstacles for the mere fact of being Israelis - many regional (and faraway) countries will not let Israelis so much as set foot on their land. Palestinians have it worse having to deal with the occupation, the corrupt PA, and the dictatorial Hamas.

Not every rich person is similar to Romney. Those who got rich because of their connections and insider access, then used that wealth to live in a way that is beyond comprehensible to most rational people are the sorts of folks I am grouping together here. It's a fairly exclusive club.

And to your last point, it is somewhat alarming to me that you found no bigotry in the article you posted, considering how attuned to that sort of thing you normally are, especially when it comes to bigotry against Muslims and Arabs.

This non-Jewish Palestinian billionaire, in your OP, claims to speak about what American Jews like to do. I wonder if a non-Muslim American billionaire, like say, Mitt Romney, wrote an article claiming to speak about what Palestinian Muslims like to do, how that would go over with you. And the talk of "genuflecting" at the "altar" of "fund-raising thrones" in "New York and Los Angeles" doesn't trouble you at all? Fascinating.

It's also odd that you aren't curious how this Palestinian businessman became a multi-billionaire. Considering everything you've written about the occupation, it must be quite a miraculous story.

You've never once gone after a wealthy Israeli who writes about the I/P conflict the way you've done here...

You can claim you know so much more about the occupation than others, but in making the claim that the Palestinians aren't held back by the Occupation, and holding up an extremely wealthy Palestinian as a reason why they're not, shows otherwise.

The reason I'm not seeing bigotry in the article is for the blatantly obvious reason that there is none. It's no more bigotry than it is when you and others have posted here about what Palestinian Arabs like to do. Is it bigoted for me to point out that US Jewish groups do have a thing about rating politicians on how Israel-friendly they are? Or is it just Palestinians who are bigots when they do it? Or maybe just Palestinians who earn over a certain amount annually?

And I mean this with all due respect.

Mitt Romney makes a statement claiming to know something about "Palestinian culture" and its impact on Palestinians. He is (rightly) condemned for doing so.

Munib Masri makes a statement claiming to know something about "American Jews" and their impact on American politics. Yet, you find nothing condemnable about his comments.

Is he right to some extent? Maybe. Is Romney right to some extent? Perhaps. However, each comment is offensive. Both men presume to have insights into a group of which they are not members. Both comments make insulting generalizations that have serious negative connotations.

Masri has lived in the US and would you deny that Israel is important in varying degrees to American Jews?

Romney made a clearly bigoted statement about Palestinians and their culture. No-one but his fellow travellers would even deny that.

The author of this article pointed out something that's absolutely true about US Jews and has been pointed out by many people here in this forum, and that is that US pro-Israel groups have a tendency to rate politicians on how much they love Israel.

The first is an attack on an entire people and their culture. The second comment is an observation on the importance US Jewish groups place on how friendly to Israel their politicians are. The first is bigotry. The second isn't.

You originally claimed that the author was engaging in antisemitism. Now yr saying his comment was offensive. There's a difference between you personally being offended by something and something being bigotry...

As I've seen you and other supporters of Israel make insights when it comes to Palestinians, why wouldn't that be bigotry to do so? Because it happens a lot and I don't ever recall seeing you say anything about it till now...

You really hit it on the head there. I'd love to see this guy's tax returns.

The only difference is, the attitude that Romney holds towards Arabs, he holds towards Jews.

Also, one of the other factors holding back the Palestinians would be career Arafat/PA loyalists like him and the other cronies who somehow managed to make themselves rich in spite of the occupation.

we are lead to conclude that

mentioning that American Jews wonder which candidate is more ProIsrael is antisemitic

that when the occupation is mentioned as a source of Palestinian economic problems there is an apparent obligation to mention that other Arab states have not been too nice to Palestinians either

and that there is indeed at one Palestinian millionaire, guess that could lead to the conclusion that it is their culture holding back the economy for the other 2,500,000 Palestinians living in the West Bank because if one can be a millionare they all should be able to be or at least they all, be better off, just like in the US right?

The author of the OP is not a millionaire, he is a billionaire.

And there are a hell of a lot more than one Palestinian millionaires. In fact, there are even several other Palestinian billionaires besides the author of this piece. Ever heard of Said Khoury, for instance?

If you knew the right people, you had the potential to get very very rich over the past few decades. Cronyism at its worst, some might say.

And, yes, a billionaire Palestinian who claims to speak on what "American Jews" like to do is as insulting as someone like Romney claiming to speak on what "Palestinian Muslims" like to do.

And with respect to your last paragraph, the point I am making is the exact opposite. People like the author of the OP became a multi-billionaire in exactly the way that most Palestinians cannot. It's all about connections. The US has a similar structure in many ways. The average American has no chance to become as rich as Mitt Romney unless they are "connected" in some way.

Munib R. Masri was born in Nablus, Palestine in 1934. He graduated with honors from the University of Texas in 1955 with a degree in Petroleum Geology and in 1956 he received a Masters Degree in Geology and Government from Sul Ross University.

In 1956, he commenced work in Jordan with E.W. Pauley and Phillips Petroleum Company, as a Geologist, and was promoted to Manager in 1960, and to President of Phillips Petroleum Co. in Algeria in 1963.

In 1963, he took a sabbatical leave from Phillips to take up an appointment with the Jordanian Government to act as a special consultant supervising the execution of major public projects in Jordan.

http://www.usmep.us/international_board/Munib_R_Masri.php

http://www.thisweekinpalestine.com/details.php?catid=9&id=2088&edid=138

He is on the board there with some other Palestinian millionaires and billionaires along with various retired Republican luminaries.

you seem to be determined to somehow prove this man wrong it's not the occupation that is holding back the Palestinians which makes us wonder of course I am sure you don't agree with Romney so then just what is it?

I mean, it's not like you ever make a point of noting who wrote a particular article or from where it is sourced. Sarcasm tag.

That he has no right to speak of economic issues facing average Americans?

you just burn up.