HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Topics » Foreign Affairs & National Security » Israel/Palestine (Group) » BBC Olympics website list...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 09:49 PM

BBC Olympics website lists Israel without capital

The UK’s main public broadcaster BBC has agreed to list Jerusalem as Israel's 'seat of government' following a complaint by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s office that it had not listed the city as Israeli capital but did mentioned ‘East Jerusalem’ as the capital of ‘Palestine'. Mark Regev, Netanyahu's foreign press adviser and spokesman, wrote a letter of protest to Paul Danahar, the BBC Middle East bureau chief, on Wednesday, saying that he was "dismayed by the BBC's decision to discriminate against Israel on the BBC's Olympic website." The site includes a page devoted to each of the countries taking part in the London Games, which will begin next week.

Regev wrote the BBC bureau chief that "every country (and non-country ) participating in the London 2012 Games has been given a page on your website with background information about the country, including mention of the capital city. Every country (and non-country) except Israel. Jerusalem is the capital of the State of Israel, and accordingly we respectfully request the immediate rectification of this matter."

http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/12132/bbc_olympics_website_lists_israel_without_capital

42 replies, 4177 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 42 replies Author Time Post
Reply BBC Olympics website lists Israel without capital (Original post)
oberliner Jul 2012 OP
leveymg Jul 2012 #1
oberliner Jul 2012 #3
Democracyinkind Jul 2012 #27
PDJane Jul 2012 #2
oberliner Jul 2012 #4
PDJane Jul 2012 #5
oberliner Jul 2012 #10
PDJane Jul 2012 #11
oberliner Jul 2012 #14
PDJane Jul 2012 #17
azurnoir Jul 2012 #18
oberliner Jul 2012 #21
Surya Gayatri Jul 2012 #26
azurnoir Jul 2012 #6
oberliner Jul 2012 #7
azurnoir Jul 2012 #8
oberliner Jul 2012 #9
azurnoir Jul 2012 #12
oberliner Jul 2012 #13
azurnoir Jul 2012 #15
oberliner Jul 2012 #16
azurnoir Jul 2012 #19
shaayecanaan Jul 2012 #20
Shaktimaan Jul 2012 #22
azurnoir Jul 2012 #23
shaayecanaan Jul 2012 #24
eyl Jul 2012 #30
sabbat hunter Jul 2012 #35
eyl Jul 2012 #36
Shaktimaan Aug 2012 #37
Fantastic Anarchist Jul 2012 #25
Scootaloo Jul 2012 #28
eyl Jul 2012 #29
Fantastic Anarchist Jul 2012 #31
eyl Jul 2012 #34
holdencaufield Aug 2012 #38
Fantastic Anarchist Aug 2012 #39
Ken Burch Jul 2012 #32
oberliner Jul 2012 #33
bemildred Aug 2012 #40
oberliner Aug 2012 #41
bemildred Aug 2012 #42

Response to oberliner (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 09:51 PM

1. That would be "israel". Try capitol.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to leveymg (Reply #1)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 10:20 PM

3. Huh?

What does this post mean?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #3)


Response to oberliner (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 09:58 PM

2. More steps towards legal annexation.

Which is wrong, utterly and totally wrong.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PDJane (Reply #2)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 10:21 PM

4. What are you talking about?

If East Jerusalem is listed as the capital of Palestine, what ought to be listed as the capital of Israel?

Isn't a shared capital of Jerusalem something to which the Palestinians aspire to?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #4)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 10:27 PM

5. They do.

But until Israel stops its annexation, it's just more window dressing, and that 'concession' is hiding the final aim of Israel.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PDJane (Reply #5)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 08:32 AM

10. What should the capital of Israel be listed as?

Would it not be fair to list Jerusalem for both I and P?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #10)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 11:28 AM

11. It would be as fair to list Washington as the capitol of Israel.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PDJane (Reply #11)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 02:39 PM

14. Israel does not claim Washington as its capital

In fact, no part of Washington is in Israel.

Is any portion of Jerusalem in Israel? Or are you disputing even that?

Check your spelling, btw.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #14)

Sun Jul 22, 2012, 05:48 PM

17. You're missing the whole point....and my spelling isn't the point.

It's my typing that's at fault!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #14)

Sun Jul 22, 2012, 05:52 PM

18. Doesn't Israel claim that Jerusalem is united?

so if your looking for West Jerusalem you have 'delegitimized' your own answer, in fact IMO that claim could make aall of a united Jerusalem 'disputed territory'

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to azurnoir (Reply #18)

Mon Jul 23, 2012, 07:50 AM

21. Yep

But that is disputed. Thus, my compromise suggestion.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #14)

Wed Jul 25, 2012, 08:00 AM

26. You might want to check your own orthography...

the word you want in your title is "capitol", the administrative hub of a country, not "capital", an upper case letter of the alphabet.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 11:31 PM

6. And in responce to Israel's demands BBC did indeed change its page on Israel

per your OP

In response, the BBC altered both pages. Israel's page now reads: "Seat of government Jerusalem, though most foreign embassies are in Tel Aviv," while Palestine's reads "Intended seat of government East Jerusalem. Ramallah serves as administrative capital."


but for Israel to expect or demand a foreign news service to play its political games is out of line

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to azurnoir (Reply #6)

Fri Jul 20, 2012, 11:57 PM

7. No they did not

per my OP:

In response, the BBC altered both pages. Israel's page now reads: "Seat of government Jerusalem, though most foreign embassies are in Tel Aviv," while Palestine's reads "Intended seat of government East Jerusalem. Ramallah serves as administrative capital."

The compromise has not satisfied Israel, and Regev wrote again to the BBC on Thursday, saying that Israel was "still discriminated against" on the website. "Unlike all the other countries listed, in Israel's case our capital Jerusalem is not classified by the BBC as such, but rather as a 'seat of government.' I kindly request that Israel's capital be identified accurately on your website."

for Israel to expect a foreign news service to list its designated capital is not out of line
Palestine is not even a recognized country yet East Jerusalem was listed as its capital
So who is playing political games?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #7)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 12:10 AM

8. why did you repost the snip I just posted?

but thank you for confirming that Israel expects BBC to do a journalistic annexation, Palestine is recognized by over 120 countries however Israel and the US are not 2 of them

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to azurnoir (Reply #8)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 08:27 AM

9. Huh?

No clue what you are talking about.

Anyway, everything that you have written in your post is incorrect, but you know that I am sure. Game playing - not in the mood for it.

Let's get back to the point, shall we?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #9)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 12:23 PM

12. and what is your point? outrage that the correction BBC printed is accurate?

and yes you did repost what I posted as to BBC's changes, I intentionally left out the second paragraph where in Israel says that accuracy is not good enough, Israel wants BBC to print something that simply is not true as only Israel recognizes Jerusalem (united no east or west) as its capital

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to azurnoir (Reply #12)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 02:34 PM

13. BBC should not have done what they did

They shouldn't have listed Israel as a country without a capital, while listing Palestine as a country with East Jerusalem as its capital.

How about this compromise:

Country: Israel, Capital: Jerusalem (disputed)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #13)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 02:49 PM

15. yes however BBC changed that to accurate information

which Israel still does not like to state that Jerusalem is Israel's capital even disputed so flatly is misleading

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to azurnoir (Reply #15)

Sat Jul 21, 2012, 02:59 PM

16. No they haven't

Have you been to the site in question? There is still no capital listed for Israel, disputed or otherwise.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #16)

Sun Jul 22, 2012, 05:58 PM

19. well you are right there is not a capital listed for Israel nor have Istated there is

apparently you wish the reason(s) for that to be ignored but FWiW here it is from BBC

Top medal sports
(pre-2012)

Sailing
Judo

Seat of government

Jerusalem, though most foreign embassies are in Tel Aviv.
Population

7,300,000
Size

22,072km˛
Languages

Hebrew
Arabic


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/2012/countries/israel


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #13)

Sun Jul 22, 2012, 06:16 PM

20. They should have listed no capital for both of them...


The Security Council,

Having considered the letter of 28 May 1980 from the representative of Pakistan, the current Chairman of the Organization of the Islamic Conference, as contained in document S/13966 of 28 May 1980,

Reaffirming that acquisition of territory by force is inadmissible,

Bearing in mind the specific status of Jerusalem and, in particular, the need for protection and preservation of the unique spiritual and religious dimension of the Holy Places in the city,

3. Reconfirms that all legislative and administrative measures and actions taken by Israel, the occupying Power, which purport to alter the character and status of the Holy City of Jerusalem have no legal validity and constitute a flagrant violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War and also constitute a serious obstruction to achieving a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the Middle East;

Security Council resolution 476


To have listed no capital for either would have been the approach consistent with international law.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to shaayecanaan (Reply #20)

Wed Jul 25, 2012, 02:37 AM

22. That regards east jerusalem.

not west.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Shaktimaan (Reply #22)

Wed Jul 25, 2012, 03:44 AM

23. Doesn't Israel claim Jerusalem is united ie one Jerusalem?

I'm expecting an imaginative answer that explains how united means something else

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Shaktimaan (Reply #22)

Wed Jul 25, 2012, 03:52 AM

24. As the text makes clear, it applies to the "Holy City of Jerusalem" (nt)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to shaayecanaan (Reply #24)

Wed Jul 25, 2012, 03:31 PM

30. The "Holy City"

is the Old City, which is part of East Jerusalem.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to eyl (Reply #30)

Thu Jul 26, 2012, 09:34 AM

35. I would like to know why

the Old City is considered by many to be part of a future Palestine. Considering it was supposed to be an international city (under UN auspices, which they abrogated by not defending the city against Jordanian forces in 49), how does Palestine have any more rights to it than Israel?

What is wrong with status quo for the Old City, under Israeli political control but the holy sites controlled by the various religions?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sabbat hunter (Reply #35)

Fri Jul 27, 2012, 02:17 AM

36. Presumably

because it's east of the Green Line.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sabbat hunter (Reply #35)

Wed Aug 8, 2012, 01:37 AM

37. What do you mean by "rights?"

That word gets tossed around during I/P discussions a LOT without much regard for its definition, it's meaning, the differences between the two, or the distinction between ethics, legality and politics WRT the very concept of a "right." It may be the most used, over-used, misused, and confused term in the entire, larger debate.

There is a common debating tactic amongst unscrupulous types of the "ends justifies the means" type, (aka: so assured that they are on the right side of the debate, that anyone who truly disagree with their worldview is never merely misinformed, but must instead be stupid; anyone who is informed but in disagreement is evil; while those in agreement with the narrative who only veer violently off the path of righteousness during discussions over HOW to achieve their many shared goals... those people are defended, their ideas are worthy of polite debate, of being wrestled with intellectually, of being CONSIDERED. Even if the support of tactics like suicide bombing and past massacres of women and children is not ultimately accepted, it is respected as a legitimate and educated viewpoint.)

Amongst these types, you can see the "ends justifies the means" theme even in their debating style. They are on the right side, thus the most important thing is to win the debate. Which is why debating with them is so unsatisfying... it is not ultimately about presenting one's idea and then vigorously defending it. It is about winning by any means necessary. Even if that entails using debating tactics which rely on hyperbole, straw men, ad hominems, non sequiturs, and most often of all... false dichotomies. The answer to your question among that crowd goes something like, "The fact that it was supposed to be an international city, yet no one complained when Israel took the vast bulk of it for themselves (expelling the native non-Jewish inhabitants in the process), is a poor argument for now giving them the rest of it; especially if you deign to consider that there still exists ANOTHER nation of people who ALSO live there, have lived there, and want to continue living there. Why is the Palestinian's lack of a greater right to the land considered to be any sort of legit argument in support of giving it away in its entirety to Israel? Israel, who already has most of Jerusalem (and that with dubious credibility), most of the land which had been demarcated to become the Arab state for the Palestinians. Why is the assumption made that lacking overwhelming ownership rights automatically means that it belongs to Israel, (who has even less ownership rights)? Al Aqsa is the third most important Islamic landmark on the planet, yet the assumption is that it should naturally belong to Israel? The implication is clear. Jewish rights are worth more than Palestinian rights, so much so that Palestinians needed an overwhelming preponderance of evidence before Israel would even CONSIDER acknowledging the fact that they exist as a people."

But the above is a crappy argument. Long story short, in truth, legally speaking, the Palestinians have no real RIGHT to East Jerusalem at all. Certainly not any more than Israel does. But then, Israel doesn't have much of a right to it either. Nor should they to West Jerusalem either; the degree to which this knowledge is widespread is evident by the dearth of embassies in West Jerusalem.

So there you have it. They have no "right" to the city. Hell, they have no right to a state! Neither of which mean that they shouldn't get both a state and East Jerusalem to use as their capital. But almost everyone agrees with this. The devil, as they say, is in the details.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Original post)

Wed Jul 25, 2012, 07:49 AM

25. Jerusalem is not the capital of Israel.

The Israelis may think so, but that's not the case per international law. If they want to split West Jerusalem and East Jerusalem accordingly to Resolution 242, then they should, and then there would be no disagreement on the matter. As long as East Jerusalem is considered occupied territory (by the whole world), then the Israeli government has a choice to make.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fantastic Anarchist (Reply #25)

Wed Jul 25, 2012, 08:15 AM

28. Bingo

The "offense" here is that the BBC is not catering to Israel's "Eternal And Undivided Capital™" propaganda, and nothing more.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scootaloo (Reply #28)

Wed Jul 25, 2012, 03:30 PM

29. Except

that the BBC - like most media - tends to phrasr reports as if Tel Aviv is Israel's capitol. If they're willing to usethat counterfactual - and not acknowledge that Tel Aviv hasn't been the capitol for decades - they could just as easily insist on refusing to recognize Israel's claims of unifying Jerusalem and use the "West Jerusalem" formula - which would have the advantage of actually being accurate, unlike the current situation.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to eyl (Reply #29)

Wed Jul 25, 2012, 05:44 PM

31. Somehow ...

... I think the Israeli government would still object. Specifying "West Jerusalem" implies that "East Jerusalem" is not part of the capital (while neither, according to international law, are). This would reinforce, in people's minds, the concept that there is a distinction - and that would undermine Israel's goal of legal annexation by way of "Eternal and Undivided" rhetoric.

It works both ways.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fantastic Anarchist (Reply #31)

Thu Jul 26, 2012, 12:13 AM

34. I never said it wouldn't

Just that the reason stated upthread for the BBC:s position didn't make sense

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fantastic Anarchist (Reply #25)

Wed Aug 8, 2012, 01:44 AM

38. Sorry...

 

... you just flunked your Geography Quiz.

Better luck next time.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to holdencaufield (Reply #38)

Wed Aug 8, 2012, 07:41 AM

39. Fancy retort.

Oh my, whatever am I to do???

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Original post)

Wed Jul 25, 2012, 07:00 PM

32. Why should the BBC list Jerusalem as the capitol

when the British government doesn't recognize Jerusalem as the capitol?

You can't really expect the state broadcaster of the UK to go against government policy on that.

"seat of government" is a reasonable compromise at the time being. Leave it at that.

btw...are you willing to do what would be most helpful thing towards achieving global recognition of West Jerusalem as Israel's capitol, and call for an end to all Israeli settlement expansion and evictions of Palestinians in East Jerusalem?

You can't really expect Palestine to accept West Jerusalem as Israel's capitol while the settlements keep making East Jerusalem smaller and smaller.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ken Burch (Reply #32)

Wed Jul 25, 2012, 07:12 PM

33. The British government doesn't recognize East Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine

In fact, the British government does not even recognize Palestine as a country.

Yet, the state broadcaster went against government policy and identified Palestine as a country with East Jerusalem as its capital.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Original post)

Wed Aug 8, 2012, 08:40 AM

40. It doesn't need well-defined borders, why the big deal about the capitol?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bemildred (Reply #40)

Wed Aug 8, 2012, 08:46 AM

41. Capital, not capitol

As a noun, capital refers to (1) a city that serves as a capital of government, (2) wealth in the form of money or property, and (3) a capital letter. As an adjective, it means (1) principal, (2) involving financial assets, and (3) deserving of the death penalty. There are other definitions of capital, but these are the main ones.

Capitol has two very specific definitions (outside Ancient Rome): (1) a U.S. state legislature building, and (2) the U.S. Capitol building in Washington, D.C. State capitols are located in the capital cities of U.S. states, and the Capitol is located in the capital city of the U.S.

http://grammarist.com/usage/capitol-capital/

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #41)

Wed Aug 8, 2012, 02:06 PM

42. Correct.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread