Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Violet_Crumble

(35,958 posts)
Sat Dec 24, 2011, 06:11 AM Dec 2011

Christmas spirit crushed in besieged Bethlehem

(obligatory seasonal Bethlehem thread!)

IF JOSEPH and Mary were making their way to Bethlehem today, the Christmas story would be a little different, says Father Ibrahim Shomali, a parish priest in the town. The couple would struggle to get into the city, let alone find a place to stay.

''If Jesus were to come this year, Bethlehem would be closed,'' says the priest of Bethlehem's Beit Jala parish. ''He would either have to be born at a checkpoint or at the separation wall. Mary and Joseph would have needed Israeli permission - or to have been tourists.

''This really is the big problem for Palestinians in Bethlehem: what will happen when they close us off completely?''

Bethlehem swells with pride every Christmas. Manger Square is transformed into a grotto of lights and stalls crowned by a towering Christmas tree. Strings of illuminated angels, stars and bells festoon the streets.

But just a few minutes' drive to the north, the festive atmosphere stops abruptly.

A strip of Israeli settlements built on 18 square kilometres of what was once northern Bethlehem threatens to cut the city off from its historic twin, Jerusalem.


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/christmas-spirit-crushed-in-besieged-bethlehem-20111223-1p8i8.html#ixzz1hRgQ0iCH

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Happy holidays, merry christmas, happy hanukah, and happy anything else I haven't thought of!


21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Christmas spirit crushed in besieged Bethlehem (Original Post) Violet_Crumble Dec 2011 OP
Thanks. Scurrilous Dec 2011 #1
Its a Festivus for the rest of us! Ruby the Liberal Dec 2011 #2
Father Ibrahim Shomali is right Mosby Dec 2011 #3
oh yes because IDF habitually delays Jews at West Bank checkpoints huh more likely though azurnoir Dec 2011 #8
Mary and Joseph were Jews who'd be most unwelcome in Bethlehem today... shira Dec 2011 #10
Mary and Joseph would as Jews most likely be living one of the settlements if they chose azurnoir Dec 2011 #14
But as Jews they'd be most unwelcome by Palestinians in Bethlehem today, right? n/t shira Dec 2011 #16
as Jews Mary and Joseph chose to live in Area A the 17% of OPT that is totaly Palestinian azurnoir Dec 2011 #18
Again, as Jews, Mary and Joseph would not be welcome to live in Bethlehem... shira Dec 2011 #21
How would Joseph, Mary and baby Jesus fare in East J-lem? Mosby Dec 2011 #11
The first link is in Hebrew azurnoir Dec 2011 #13
LOL. Joseph and Mary were practicing Jews. There are no practicing Jews... shira Dec 2011 #4
Want to visit? Travel Guide here on what to see, what to do, etc. Little Tich Dec 2011 #5
Pics from Bethlehem, Christmas 2011 Ruby the Liberal Dec 2011 #6
The 'Christmas spirit ' does not look that 'crushed in besieged Bethlehem' in that slideshow nt King_David Dec 2011 #7
Not so crushed and not so besieged henank Dec 2011 #9
It might help if you read the OP before responding... Violet_Crumble Dec 2011 #20
How the Jews steal Christmas: Ugly Guardian story evokes Jesus as an “oppressed” Palestinian Mosby Dec 2011 #12
WTF? Ruby the Liberal Dec 2011 #17
the article CIFwatchs headline gives a false title azurnoir Dec 2011 #19
Archbishop of Westminster Vincent Nichols Offers Prayers For Bethlehem Scurrilous Dec 2011 #15

Mosby

(16,295 posts)
3. Father Ibrahim Shomali is right
Sat Dec 24, 2011, 05:08 PM
Dec 2011

If Mary and Joseph tried to get to Bethlehem today, it would be difficult.

They were Jewish.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
8. oh yes because IDF habitually delays Jews at West Bank checkpoints huh more likely though
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 03:46 AM
Dec 2011

they would be welcomed at a Jewish hospital in nearby East Jerusalem and if it were an emergency Magen David Adom* would gladly rush them there no need for Jews to go a shabby little Arab burg like Bethlehem these days

* word has it they recently changed the emblom on some of their ambulances in the WB something they promised the ICRC they'd do nearly 7 years ago

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
10. Mary and Joseph were Jews who'd be most unwelcome in Bethlehem today...
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 12:33 PM
Dec 2011

They'd be illegal Zionist settlers in your opinion, now wouldn't they?

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
14. Mary and Joseph would as Jews most likely be living one of the settlements if they chose
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 03:08 PM
Dec 2011

to reside in the OPT so yes ya got me lol

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
18. as Jews Mary and Joseph chose to live in Area A the 17% of OPT that is totaly Palestinian
Tue Dec 27, 2011, 03:14 AM
Dec 2011

controlled, why? especially when there are much nicer Jewish settlements very close by, you attempt to paint a picture that would not exist today as Jews in the OPT are not the ones living under a hostile occupation

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
21. Again, as Jews, Mary and Joseph would not be welcome to live in Bethlehem...
Tue Dec 27, 2011, 10:56 AM
Dec 2011

...by the Palestinians there, now would they?

Of course not, but you already knew that.

Goes to show the OP is absurd and what passes for "pro-Palestinian" commentary on I/P these days is complete nonsense.

Mosby

(16,295 posts)
11. How would Joseph, Mary and baby Jesus fare in East J-lem?
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 01:14 PM
Dec 2011

We don't need to speculate:

http://www.mouse.co.il/CM.articles_item,610,209,65303,.aspx

"That day there was a funeral in the neighborhood of Silwan in East Jerusalem, and I went up to Jerusalem to photograph it for the Russian news agency. At the funeral there was a commotion and disturbances, so we expected a mess. I stood at a major intersection located above the where they have the tent demonstrations in the neighborhood, just below the Cinematheque, and there were bunch of kids who were throwing stones at passing vehicles. For every vehicle they checked if the driver was Jewish and [if so] threw stones at him. At one point, a string of cars passed and the children ran toward the vehicle and began to throw stones at it; the driver pulled the steering wheel and hit the children.

This picture undoubtedly is highly debatable. My job as a photographer is to document the scene - the events I shoot were happening with or without the presence of the camera. I started taking journalism because I wanted to see with my own eyes how everything looks, on the news every reporter puts his personal views . The press here in Israel have a very big problem when the photographer becomes part of the news - then it's not news, it's propaganda. The average reader should be able to read between the lines and understand the truth, and not the opinion of some writers and editors."

FYI - The picture doesn't show the completely shattered back window of the car, so it's highly deceptive. Naturally the photographer just won an award for it.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/photo-of-stone-throwers-getting-hit-by-car-in-east-jerusalem-wins-award-1.401251

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
13. The first link is in Hebrew
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 02:53 PM
Dec 2011

seems you want a select reading audience for that one The incident from 10/10 where a settler ran over a kid in Silwan? The kid was arrested by Israeli authorities the settler was exonerated of any wrong doing what's to complain about ?

oh the photograph won an award that's a problem isn't it

however explain why Magen David Admon would be going through side streets in Slwan

but you had to get that one in some way huh?

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
4. LOL. Joseph and Mary were practicing Jews. There are no practicing Jews...
Sat Dec 24, 2011, 07:26 PM
Dec 2011

...living in the territories under Palestinian authority these days.

They'd be regarded as Zionist settlers not only by Palestinians but the International Community and UN, which would accuse them of illegally trying to settle in Bethlehem on Palestinian property.

If Joseph, Mary, and baby Jesus decided to live in Bethlehem, their home would be the target of multiple katyusha and kassam attacks. The family would probably be massacred just like the Fogels, and baby Jesus' throat would be slashed. Their proud murderers would be regarded as heroes by both Hamas and the PA. Streets and sports stadiums would be named after them.

The media would minimize the incident, attempting to portray any Israeli response as equally offensive. They'd probably report the story in such a way as to show Mary had it coming from her zealoted murderers since Jesus was born out of wedlock.

The UN would do nothing to condemn the act. I doubt they'd even condemn the hanging of the 3 wise men for sorcery right down the street from Jesus' family.

Not a very realistic portrayal of reality.

I'm saddened that my more realistic version of Mary and Joseph in Bethlehem wouldn't make it into the Guardian or any mainstream media. I wonder if it would be considered as insensitive and hateful as the OP and therefore unworthy of making it into the paper.



Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
5. Want to visit? Travel Guide here on what to see, what to do, etc.
Sat Dec 24, 2011, 09:29 PM
Dec 2011

Betlehem
Source: Wikitravel

Bethlehem (Arabic: بيت لحم, Beit Lahm Hebrew: בית לחם Beit Lechem)[1] is a small city located some 10 km (6 miles) south of the Old City of Jerusalem within the West Bank, in an "Area A" zone administered by the Palestinian Authority.

The "little town" of Bethlehem, mentioned in any number of Christmas carols, attracts pilgrims worldwide on account of its description in the New Testament (and particularly the Gospels) as the birthplace of Jesus, whom Christians believe to be Messiah and Son of God. The Church of the Nativity, one of the oldest churches in the world, is the focus of Christian veneration within the city.

Bethlehem is revered by Jews as the birthplace and home town of David, King of Israel, as well as the traditional site of Rachel's Tomb (on the outskirts of the town).

Although also home to many Muslims, Bethlehem remains home to one of the largest Arab Christian communities in the Middle East (despite significant emigration in recent years, resulting in a growing Muslim majority) and one of the chief cultural and tourism drawcards for the Palestinian community. The Bethlehem agglomeration also includes the small towns of Beit Jala and Beit Sahour, the latter also having biblical significance.

Building up to the Millenium in the year 2000, Bethlehem underwent a massive largely foreign-funded project called Bethlehem 2000 in hopes of turning Bethlehem into a major tourist destination comparable to destinations such as Jerusalem or Tel Aviv in tourism infrastructure. Unfortunately a year later, the Palestinian uprising against the Israeli occupation occured and the ensuing violence scuttled these tourism efforts. With the Palestinian uprising and violent clashes between both sides now have been over and done wiith for quite a few years, violence is now a thing of the past and many in Bethlehem hope to continue on where Bethlehem 2000 started them off.

Read more: http://wikitravel.org/en/Bethlehem

Violet_Crumble

(35,958 posts)
20. It might help if you read the OP before responding...
Tue Dec 27, 2011, 05:54 AM
Dec 2011

The OP says that tourists and Israelis have no problems getting into Bethlehem, so I'm not sure what posting something about crowds in Bethlehem is supposed to prove...

btw, are you seriously trying to claim there's no such thing as a Palestinian who happens to be Jewish?

Mosby

(16,295 posts)
12. How the Jews steal Christmas: Ugly Guardian story evokes Jesus as an “oppressed” Palestinian
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 01:50 PM
Dec 2011

snip

In the media there are, to be sure, small lies, big lies and moral obscenities.

The small lie in Greenwood’s tale pertains to her suggestion that Bethlehem is being economically strangled by Israeli policy.

The big lie is that Israeli Jews are, in any way, oppressing Christians.

The morally obscene charge is that, if Christ, Mary and Joseph were all alive today, they’d be persecuted by the Jewish state.

The indisputable fact, however, is that Israel remains the sole nation in the Middle East where Christians thrive and worship freely.

Is this even debatable?

http://cifwatch.com/2011/12/23/how-the-jews-steal-christmas-ugly-guardian-story-evokes-jesus-as-an-oppressed-palestinian/

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
19. the article CIFwatchs headline gives a false title
Tue Dec 27, 2011, 03:57 AM
Dec 2011

'If Jesus were to come this year, Bethlehem would be closed'


If Joseph and Mary were making their way to Bethlehem today, the Christmas story would be a little different, says Father Ibrahim Shomali, a parish priest in the town. The couple would struggle to get into the city, let alone find a hotel room.

"If Jesus were to come this year, Bethlehem would be closed," says the priest of Bethlehem's Beit Jala parish. "He would either have to be born at a checkpoint or at the separation wall. Mary and Joseph would have needed Israeli permission – or to have been tourists.

<snip>

Bethlehem is the heart of Christian Palestine and it swells with pride every Christmas. Manger Square is transformed into a grotto of lights and stalls crowned by a towering Christmas tree. Strings of illuminated angels, stars and bells festoon the streets. But just a few minutes' drive to the north, the festive atmosphere stops abruptly.

A strip of Israeli settlements built on 18 sq km of what was once northern Bethlehem threatens to cut the city off from its historic twin, Jerusalem. To the Israeli authorities, these have been neighbourhoods of Jerusalem since 1967. One of the settlements, Har Homa, is built on land where angels are said to have announced the birth of Christ to local shepherds. A narrow corridor of land between Har Homa and another settlement, Gilo, still connects Bethlehem to Jerusalem but the construction of Givat Hamatos, a new settlement announced in October, will fill this in a matter of years.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/22/jesus-the-year-bethlehem-closed?newsfeed=true

Thanks

Scurrilous

(38,687 posts)
15. Archbishop of Westminster Vincent Nichols Offers Prayers For Bethlehem
Mon Dec 26, 2011, 02:38 PM
Dec 2011

<snuip>

"The head of the Catholic Church in England and Wales offered prayers today for people in Bethlehem at risk of losing their homes.

During his Midnight Mass sermon, Archbishop of Westminster Vincent Nichols spoke of 50 families in the West Bank whom he said could lose their land to Israel.

Addressing the congregation at Westminster Cathedral, Archbishop Nichols urged people to "see more clearly all those things which disfigure our world", adding: "We too live 'in a land of deep shadow'."

He went on: "That shadow falls particularly heavily on the town of Bethlehem tonight.

"At this moment the people of the parish of Beit Jala prepare for their legal battle to protect their land and homes from further expropriation by Israel.

"Over 50 families face losing their land and their homes as action is taken to complete the separation/security wall across the territory of the district of Bethlehem.

"We pray for them tonight."

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2011/12/25/archbishop-of-westminster-bethlehem_n_1169167.html

Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Israel/Palestine»Christmas spirit crushed ...