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Tue Jun 26, 2012, 01:01 PM

Anti-Israel Aid Billboards Are Taken Down (Los Angeles area)

WASHINGTON (JTA) -- A subsidiary of the CBS Corp. removed 23 billboards in the Los Angeles area calling for a stop to U.S. foreign assistance to Israel.

The Coalition to Stop $30 Billion to Israel, which sponsored the billboards, said in a statement that it received a letter from CBS Outdoor, a subsidiary of the CBS Corp., saying the contract was canceled because the coalition "used the ‘CBS Outdoor’ name without permission" in its publicity. CBS Outdoor refunded the undisclosed amount of the contract to the group, the coalition said on its Facebook page.

The coalition is asking supporters to demand that CBS Outdoor put back the billboards.

“If you support us trying to get our message of ending military aid to Israel back up on billboards in the nation's second largest city, won't you help flood CBS with phone calls demanding that our billboards be put back up and our contract be honored to the full term?” the coalition said in its statement.

MORE...

http://www.jta.org/news/article/2012/06/26/3099211/anti-israel-aid-billboards-coming-down

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Reply Anti-Israel Aid Billboards Are Taken Down (Los Angeles area) (Original post)
Purveyor Jun 2012 OP
Astrad Jun 2012 #1
Mosby Jun 2012 #2
aranthus Jun 2012 #3
Mosby Jun 2012 #4
aranthus Jun 2012 #34
leveymg Jun 2012 #30
aranthus Jun 2012 #35
leveymg Jun 2012 #69
azurnoir Jun 2012 #5
King_David Jun 2012 #18
azurnoir Jun 2012 #19
King_David Jun 2012 #21
azurnoir Jun 2012 #22
King_David Jun 2012 #23
azurnoir Jun 2012 #27
King_David Jun 2012 #32
azurnoir Jun 2012 #33
King_David Jun 2012 #38
azurnoir Jun 2012 #40
Ken Burch Jun 2012 #56
JDPriestly Jun 2012 #66
azurnoir Jun 2012 #67
JDPriestly Jun 2012 #74
azurnoir Jun 2012 #75
JDPriestly Jun 2012 #90
aranthus Jul 2012 #113
azurnoir Jul 2012 #114
aranthus Jul 2012 #121
aranthus Jun 2012 #70
Scootaloo Jun 2012 #54
Shadowflash Jun 2012 #78
King_David Jun 2012 #88
Ken Burch Jun 2012 #93
King_David Jun 2012 #99
Ken Burch Jun 2012 #100
King_David Jun 2012 #102
Ken Burch Jun 2012 #104
azurnoir Jul 2012 #112
King_David Jul 2012 #115
azurnoir Jul 2012 #116
King_David Jul 2012 #122
Scootaloo Jun 2012 #103
Ken Burch Jun 2012 #55
aranthus Jun 2012 #71
Shaktimaan Jun 2012 #46
azurnoir Jun 2012 #49
Shaktimaan Jun 2012 #59
azurnoir Jun 2012 #64
aranthus Jun 2012 #72
azurnoir Jun 2012 #77
aranthus Jun 2012 #79
azurnoir Jun 2012 #81
aranthus Jun 2012 #82
azurnoir Jun 2012 #84
Shaktimaan Jul 2012 #106
azurnoir Jul 2012 #109
Shaktimaan Jul 2012 #110
azurnoir Jul 2012 #111
Shaktimaan Jul 2012 #117
Ken Burch Jun 2012 #53
Bradlad Jun 2012 #73
Ken Burch Jun 2012 #89
Ken Burch Jun 2012 #92
Swede Jun 2012 #6
azurnoir Jun 2012 #7
Swede Jun 2012 #8
azurnoir Jun 2012 #9
Swede Jun 2012 #11
azurnoir Jun 2012 #12
Swede Jun 2012 #14
azurnoir Jun 2012 #16
Swede Jun 2012 #24
azurnoir Jun 2012 #25
Swede Jun 2012 #26
azurnoir Jun 2012 #28
Swede Jun 2012 #29
azurnoir Jun 2012 #31
Swede Jun 2012 #41
azurnoir Jun 2012 #42
Swede Jun 2012 #43
azurnoir Jun 2012 #44
Swede Jun 2012 #45
azurnoir Jun 2012 #47
Swede Jun 2012 #48
azurnoir Jun 2012 #50
Ken Burch Jun 2012 #65
Ken Burch Jun 2012 #63
Ken Burch Jun 2012 #62
azurnoir Jun 2012 #15
Ken Burch Jun 2012 #61
aranthus Jun 2012 #83
Ken Burch Jun 2012 #86
Ken Burch Jun 2012 #60
Mosby Jun 2012 #76
Ken Burch Jun 2012 #87
shira Jun 2012 #10
azurnoir Jun 2012 #13
shira Jun 2012 #17
azurnoir Jun 2012 #20
oberliner Jun 2012 #36
azurnoir Jun 2012 #37
oberliner Jun 2012 #39
azurnoir Jun 2012 #51
Ken Burch Jun 2012 #94
Scootaloo Jun 2012 #57
Ken Burch Jun 2012 #58
Swede Jun 2012 #85
Ken Burch Jun 2012 #91
Swede Jun 2012 #95
Ken Burch Jun 2012 #96
Swede Jun 2012 #97
Ken Burch Jun 2012 #101
Swede Jun 2012 #105
Shaktimaan Jul 2012 #107
Ken Burch Jul 2012 #108
Shaktimaan Jul 2012 #118
azurnoir Jul 2012 #119
Shaktimaan Jul 2012 #120
Ken Burch Jun 2012 #52
aranthus Jun 2012 #80
David__77 Jun 2012 #68
azurnoir Jun 2012 #98

Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 02:05 PM

1. Wow

Regardless of whether one agrees with the sentiment, they certainly have a right to advocate for it. Taking them down just feeds idiotic conspiracy theories. Bad move CBS.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 02:11 PM

2. Good. nt

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 02:12 PM

3. Does anyone know what CBS means

when they say that the group used CBS Outdoors' name without permission? What did the group do? If they did what CBS claims, then CBS does have the right to cancel the contract, and I doubt that any kind of letter writing campaign would help get the billboards back. If CBS is just blowing smoke, then people need to find out the real reason for the cancellation and then address that.

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Response to aranthus (Reply #3)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 02:44 PM

4. more info

Instead of maintaining a strictly business relationship with CBS Outdoor, it implied through its literature and fundraising appeals that CBS Outdoor actually supported its anti-Israel cause. Its petition of thanks to CBS Outdoor read, in part, "By contracting with the grassroots, nonprofit Coalition to Stop $30 Billion to Israel, this billboard company is demonstrating its support for the basic American tradition of free speech.” A coalition member’s article celebrating the Los Angeles campaign was entitled "Billboard campaign to end U.S. aid to Israel hits LA - thanks to CBS."

http://standwithus.com/app/iNews/view_n.asp?ID=2342

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Response to Mosby (Reply #4)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 07:39 PM

34. Thanks.

The Coalition screwed itself.

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Response to aranthus (Reply #3)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 06:57 PM

30. CBS means whatever Sumner Redstone, its owner, says it means.

Came in from Viacom with a buyout in 2000, promptly turned the whole thing to support Bush, fired Rather, installed Katie Curic, stripped out the News Division. And, Redstone is a stalwart supporter of Likud.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #30)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 07:40 PM

35. The facts say otherwise.

Last edited Tue Jun 26, 2012, 09:31 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

None of what you have said porves that Redstone is unethical or lying, or that he was even involved in the decision. Obviously CBS took the contract to begin with. It seems that the Coalition actually did what CBS is now complaining about and that the billboard company has a fair beef.

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Response to aranthus (Reply #35)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 08:13 AM

69. I stated facts. You gave your opinion and tried to change the subject. Redstone is a Neocon.

My comment is about Sumner Redstone's mismanagement and destruction of CBS. What he's done to the News Division is particularly appalling.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 02:45 PM

5. Stand with us and Howard Berman



A coalition of anti-Israel activists that calls for ending U.S. aid to Israel, Coalition to Stop $30 Billion to Israel, has run billboard campaigns in several American cities to spread its message. On June 11 it entered the Los Angeles area, setting up 23 billboards, which were scheduled to run for four weeks, with more billboards to follow. Instead of maintaining a strictly business relationship with CBS Outdoor, it implied through its literature and fundraising appeals that CBS Outdoor actually supported its anti-Israel cause. Its petition of thanks to CBS Outdoor read, in part, "By contracting with the grassroots, nonprofit Coalition to Stop $30 Billion to Israel, this billboard company is demonstrating its support for the basic American tradition of free speech.” A coalition member’s article celebrating the Los Angeles campaign was entitled "Billboard campaign to end U.S. aid to Israel hits LA - thanks to CBS."


http://www.standwithus.com/app/iNews/view_n.asp?ID=2342

Berman Slams Group for Anti-Israel Billboard

U.S. Rep. Howard Berman slammed a Los Angeles-area group for anti-Israel billboards that call for an end to U.S. aid to Israel.

In his letter to The Coalition to Stop $30 Billion to Israel, Berman (D-Calif.) emphasized the importance of providing assistance to Israel.

“We are the leading voice in the international community, and have the world’s most powerful military, yet your organization would have us abandon our closest ally in the Middle East and allow its deterrent capability to wither on the vine,” Berman wrote to the group, which posted its billboards in the San Fernando Valley. “That is not the way to demonstrate international leadership.”

Berman noted in a follow-up statement that aid to Israel was a top legislative priority for him. He is battling fellow Democratic Rep. Brad Sherman for the seat in California’s redrawn 30th Congressional District. Both are Jewish and both are known for their pro-Israel stands.


Read more: http://forward.com/articles/158421/berman-slams-group-for-anti-israel-billboard/#ixzz1yvUol9uA

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #5)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 06:08 PM

18. Who would support these radical loons ?

Certainly none of the Democratic party representatives and its even seen as a liability to those seeking election.

Good !! These extremists are being marginalized,as they should be.

It is good that they supplied us with all CBS' contact info so balanced moderate people may express our support for their actions. As I have done...

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Response to King_David (Reply #18)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 06:20 PM

19. so I take it you do not believe in free speech?

do balanced and moderate people advocate against free speech? do balanced and moderate people attempt to silence those with whom they disagree?

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #19)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 06:27 PM

21. These guys are radical loons,

Good that they violated their contract with CBS (Quelle surprise!)

Good that none of the Democratic Party reps support these idiots.

Nothing to do with free speech.

But good these offensive anti Zionist billboards were removed.

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Response to King_David (Reply #21)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 06:30 PM

22. regardless of what politicians support or do not support them they still have a right to free speech

but seeing as how your Australian I really should not expect you to understand US laws

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #22)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 06:43 PM

23. I suspect I do understand US laws

Much more so than a majority of Americans do.

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Response to King_David (Reply #23)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 06:51 PM

27. then tell us which law allows the limiting of free speech and under what circumstances? n/t

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #27)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 07:13 PM

32. That's not relevant

What's relevant is the trashy anti Zionist billboards were taken down , legally , not in violation of any free speech laws but because these radicals violated the terms of their contract .

Kol Hakavod.

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Response to King_David (Reply #32)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 07:17 PM

33. you mean you perhaps actually do not know?

but what the heck as long as the speech of those I disagree is stifled it's all good? oh exactly what terms of their contract did they violate?

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #33)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 08:48 PM

38. Nope that's not what I mean at all

Last edited Tue Jun 26, 2012, 08:51 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

Keep trying.


Violations : http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=12760

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Response to King_David (Reply #38)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 10:34 PM

40. yes I posted SwU complete claims along with a bit about Howard Berman you replied to that post

Last edited Tue Jun 26, 2012, 10:43 PM USA/ET - Edit history (4)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113412755#post18

The claim made by CBS that their name was used without permission seem spurious to me. after all CBS did allow the billboards to be posted

still a nice goal post change guess you do approve of free speech being thwarted after all ?
the original subject was indeed free speech

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Response to King_David (Reply #32)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 12:47 AM

56. How was the contract violated?

Last edited Wed Jun 27, 2012, 12:47 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

CBS knew what they'd be posting.

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #22)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 02:12 AM

66. A private billboard company does not have to give anyone free speech.

Only the government has to allow free speech, and the government did not take down the billboards.

Los Angeles has a very, very large Jewish population. CBS billboards may have good business reasons for refusing to put up billboards that are very likely to offend a good-sized portion of people in Los Angeles.

I personally support Israel.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #66)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 02:25 AM

67. another "only the government......"

already had that discussion though

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=12845

they did not refuse they did put them up and then took them down under some spurious claims that's the problem

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #67)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 12:37 PM

74. If I own a billboard company -- a private billboard company -- I get to decide

what signs I am willing to put up. That's all there is to it.

If I own a store, I get to decide what signs I put up. The government can require me to put up certain signs, but it can't order me to put up or not put up signs based on the political content of the signs. This is true with very few exceptions.

If you live in a condo or belong to a homeowner's association, there may be a board that tells you what you can and cannot put up as a sign, but other than that, on your own property, on your own billboard, you get to decide.

There are limits to your right to put up any sign you want, but I can't imagine anyone requiring you to allow people to put a sign with a political message that you don't like.

Please cite any authority or law you know of that would allow someone to require a billboard company to put up a sign that is likely to be offensive to a lot of people. I don't think there is one.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #74)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 12:51 PM

75. here is the problem as a business owner your prejudices do not allow you to decide

who to sell to or not but in this case that is not even the question CBS did sell its services to this group and then withdrew it under spurious claims when it came under fire from a noisy ProIsrael group and a government official (Howard Berman)

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #75)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 06:28 PM

90. The answer for the group whose billboards were removed is to hire a different

billboard company. Although, I think they will have a hard time finding one willing to put up those billboards in Los Angeles.

That's because they would offend a lot of other advertisers. Maybe they could find a very small billboard company??? The billboards are not going to be well received in Los Angeles.

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #75)

Mon Jul 2, 2012, 12:41 PM

113. That's not entirely true.

Last edited Mon Jul 2, 2012, 12:44 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

Hostility to BDS or the don't sell weapons to Israel (but excluding everyone else) crowd, isn't a prejudice. It's a policy and political choice. Second, given the nature of what's being sold,, there's a first amendment issue. The owner has a free spech right to sell or not sell advertising space.

Question for you. Would you be complaining if this was done to a pro-Israel group? How about a church advertising against homosexuality? My point is, are you really for free speech, ordo you just like the cause of the anti-Israel crowd.

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Response to aranthus (Reply #113)

Mon Jul 2, 2012, 12:56 PM

114. an antigay billboard could be a hate crime depending to what was said and state laws

so pulling that one would be okay the first one should be allowed to stay regardless unless it included an antiArab message

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #114)

Tue Jul 3, 2012, 12:50 PM

121. Not under any hate crime staute that would pass the Constitution.

Speech is speech.

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #22)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 11:13 AM

70. So does CBS.

It's their billboards until they sign a contract to rent them to someone such as the Coalition. They can rent or not rent them to whoever they want, for whatever reason they want. If they think that this group breached the contract, then they have the right to terminate the rental.

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Response to King_David (Reply #21)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 12:45 AM

54. I find my tax money going to kill Palestinians slightly more offensive than billboards

But I guess my ethics aren't your ethics.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #54)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 01:53 PM

78. Yup.

Our tax $$ should be going to a LOT less countries. Israel and Pakistan are two of them.

There are people here in the US and abroad who need the help more and will use it for more positive purposes.


And, no, I don't hate Jewish folks. I just dislike what their government does with MY tax money.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #54)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 06:01 PM

88. Mine are the same as the Democratic Party

And their reps and supporters.

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Response to King_David (Reply #88)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 09:46 PM

93. Actually, yours aren't.

Most Democrats don't support the Occupation. Few if any defend the illegal settlements.

They support Israel's existence(as I do), but not the ultra-right and anti-peace "Eretz Yisroel" agenda that you essentially support...an agenda that isn't actually good for Israel.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #93)

Thu Jun 28, 2012, 12:12 AM

99. 'and anti-peace "Eretz Yisroel" agenda that you essentially support...'

Last edited Thu Jun 28, 2012, 12:13 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

Your too much.

But most people see your posts for what they are.

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Response to King_David (Reply #99)

Thu Jun 28, 2012, 12:23 AM

100. That's what your support for the settlers is all about

Last edited Thu Jun 28, 2012, 03:12 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

backing the settlements=not giving a damn about peace. It really is that simple, because there can't be peace AND the settlements.

See ya later..."QJ".

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #100)

Thu Jun 28, 2012, 12:36 AM

102. Support for settlers huh?

This is my last reply to you.

I am joining the ranks of most other posters in this forum.

Enough of your fabrications.

Enjoy.

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Response to King_David (Reply #102)

Thu Jun 28, 2012, 01:23 AM

104. I fabricated nothing

You've constantly defended the settlers and the settlement project.

If you're putting me on "Ignore" for telling the truth...fine. You're doing me an honor.

Nothing you support in the West Bank is good for Israel...or Israelis...or LGBT people, Israeli or not.

And you never did say why you have an Australian flag in your posts.

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Response to King_David (Reply #102)

Mon Jul 2, 2012, 12:15 AM

112. So you do not support the settlers?

even the ones you have in the past referred to as your "brothers and sisters"?

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #112)

Mon Jul 2, 2012, 02:41 PM

115. Do you beat your children? nt

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Response to King_David (Reply #115)

Mon Jul 2, 2012, 02:43 PM

116. Nope I certainly do not beat my children, now back to my question..........n/t

Last edited Mon Jul 2, 2012, 02:43 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #112)

Tue Jul 3, 2012, 06:43 PM

122. Are you asking: If I am a Settler Supporter ?

Should I ask : Are you and Ken Burch antisemites ?

Are these questions DU members ask each other ?

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Response to King_David (Reply #88)

Thu Jun 28, 2012, 01:17 AM

103. I dunno. I think most Democrats are offended by deaths more than billboards

I guess I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

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Response to King_David (Reply #21)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 12:46 AM

55. They had a right to use the billboards to express their opinion

The fact is, sending the money means keeping the war going for the rest of eternity. It means giving up on any hope of peace.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #55)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 11:15 AM

71. Only so long as they abided by the terms of the rental contract.

If they are in breach as CBS claims, then CBS can terminate the rental. This isn't really a free speech issue. It's a contract issue.

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #19)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 11:56 PM

46. Free speech?

This is not a free speech issue.

The government did not force anyone to remove the billboards. They were privately owned and rented out under contract. They are not obligated by free speech laws to put up anything and everything. Free speech PROTECTS speech from government intrusion, it doesn't mean that billboard owners have no say in what gets printed on their property.

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Response to Shaktimaan (Reply #46)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 12:04 AM

49. so only the government can interfere with free speech? sorry the Washington state court disagrees

Last edited Wed Jun 27, 2012, 12:06 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

Today, a Washington state court dismissed a lawsuit brought against the Olympia Food Coop by StandWithUs and the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs:

court dismissed the case, calling it a SLAPP – Strategic Litigation Against Public Participation – and said that it would award the defendants attorneys’ fees, costs, and sanctions. The judge also upheld the constitutionality of Washington’s anti-SLAPP law, which the plaintiffs had challenged.

In a court hearing last Thursday, lawyers from the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR) and Davis Wright Tremaine LLP argued that the court should grant the defendants’ Special Motion to Strike and dismiss the case because it targeted the constitutional rights of free speech and petition in connection with an issue of public concern.
“We are pleased the Court found this case to be what it is – an attempt to chill free speech on a matter of public concern. This sends a message to those trying to silence support of Palestinian human rights to think twice before they bring a lawsuit,” said Maria LaHood, a senior staff attorney with the Center for Constitutional Rights.


http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2012/02/27/olympia-food-coop-wins-anti-slapp-motion-court-dismisses-standwithus-lawsuit/

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #49)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 12:51 AM

59. sigh

anti-slapp laws make it illegal to violate someone's free speech by threatening them with a lawsuit. Obviously people aside from the government can restrict one's right to free speech, say by threatening to kill them or whatever. Nothing of that sort even remotely applies to the subject we're discussing.

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Response to Shaktimaan (Reply #59)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 12:58 AM

64. IMO CBs's reaction or over reaction is suppressing free speech as CBS could have

Last edited Wed Jun 27, 2012, 12:58 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

simply made a statement known as a disclaimer that said they did not support the message that this group was promoting and as a subsidiary of CBS broadcasting they should be familiar with those types of disclaimers and it seems that the involvement of a US government official in the incident could be taken as added pressure

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #64)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 11:21 AM

72. CBS has the right to respond to the breach in any legal way it wants.

It could do nothing. It could re-negotiate. It could cancel the contract.. It could sue for damages. Given what it was complaining about, CBS could reasonably conclude that a disclaimer by CBS (or even by the Coalition) would not have been enough to make up for the original misuse of CBS' name. CBS isn't suppressing free speech.

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Response to aranthus (Reply #72)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 01:33 PM

77. yes it is by appearing to bow down to a known pressure group like SwU

and a government official , the breach of contract is SwU's claim CBS has not yet spoken out publicly on this or is SwU now CBS's official spokesman?

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #77)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 01:56 PM

79. I don't care about appearances. It's the truth that counts.

Once the Coalition breached, CBS had the right to cancel the contract. Given the multiple ways that the Coalition attempted to falsely portray CBS as supporting the Coalition, CBS had every right to boot them from the billboards. It's not stifling free speech. It's merely responding to a gross over reach by the Coalition.

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Response to aranthus (Reply #79)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 02:10 PM

81. has CBS confirmed that or made its own public statement ? or is SwU CBS's spokesman?

if CBS has made its own statement apart from SwU's then please post it

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #81)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 03:44 PM

82. Here is a report of the CBS e-mail posted by one of the Coalition participants.

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Response to aranthus (Reply #82)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 03:55 PM

84. still quite a spurious reason IMO

but for some success by any means will do, SwU has succeeded in its goal which is silencing criticism of israel this time or for the time being, I wonder if the last of this has been heard and if CBS's contract was indeed broken do you have a copy?

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #64)

Sun Jul 1, 2012, 08:35 PM

106. no.

CBS isn't suppressing their speech. It simply is not allowing their medium to be used. They are still free to put their message out there. CBS is under no obligation to let them use their billboards.

The difference is that suppression involves the prevention of someone's speech anywhere. If I don't like what a dinner guest is saying at my table I can ask him to leave without having suppressed his freedom of speech.

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Response to Shaktimaan (Reply #106)

Sun Jul 1, 2012, 10:10 PM

109. ah except CBS did allow their medium to be used it was after pressure from a Congressman and SwU

that CBS latched on to the spurious reason of breach of contract to pull down those billboards

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #109)

Sun Jul 1, 2012, 10:42 PM

110. doesn't matter.

It's not violating anyone's first amendment.

CBS isn't preventing anyone from making the statement. They are merely not allowing their billboards to be used for that purpose. Unless CBS is doing something else that restricts this statement from being spoken in ANY form, like threatening to sue them or have them arrested if they keep distributing this content, then there's no violation.

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Response to Shaktimaan (Reply #110)

Mon Jul 2, 2012, 12:10 AM

111. Really now

CBS changed its mind after coming under pressure from a Congressman and a pressure group but its not censorship? I would think Howard Berman's involvement could change that

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #111)

Mon Jul 2, 2012, 04:49 PM

117. that's not the argument.

I said that it wasn't a first amendment violation.
It's not.

The fact that they changed their minds under pressure from congress would support my version. If it was a 1st amendment violation they would reverse course under pressure from the courts.

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Response to King_David (Reply #18)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 12:45 AM

53. It isn't moderate to send $30 billiion to the Israeli war machine(editing to correct figure)

Last edited Wed Jun 27, 2012, 06:01 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

It's an unquestioning endorsement of the status quo and a declaration of opposition to peace.

Sending the money without interruption is the same thing as endorsing everything Bibi does and being against an end to the war.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #53)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 11:23 AM

73. Oh yes!

There's nothing the American people (speaking through their congress-critters) want more than never-ending war in the world - but especially in the ME. </sarcasm>

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Response to Bradlad (Reply #73)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 06:02 PM

89. Well, we've been arming both sides in a regional dispute for decades now.

That's not a strategy for peace.

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Response to Bradlad (Reply #73)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 09:44 PM

92. also, that's NOT how you do the "sarcasm" smiley.

you put a "colon" on either side of the word "sarcasm".

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 03:21 PM

6. Disarming Israel,what a brilliant move that would be.

These folks aren't thinking long term,are they.

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Response to Swede (Reply #6)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 03:30 PM

7. who said anything about disarming Israel?

apparently you do not understand the difference between not giving Israel 30 billion dollars and disarmament, you do realize Israel has a thriving arms industry of its own. and exports arms to other countries?

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #7)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 04:19 PM

8. Crippling Israel is short sighted.

You do realize that?

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Response to Swede (Reply #8)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 04:26 PM

9. Israel a country with its own armament industry one that exports arms would be crippled

without US funding? Are these Israeli companies or Israel itself welfare clients of the US?

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #9)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 04:42 PM

11. Think of it as a price of peace.

Israel is not the only recipient of aid.

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Response to Swede (Reply #11)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 04:45 PM

12. News Analysis: Israeli arms industry a major economic engine

Israeli defense sales in 2010 totaled 7.2 billion U.S. dollars, making the small nation the world's fourth largest exporter.

Defense officials released the figure in an official report ahead of the Paris Air Show, which is scheduled to open on June 26. A bevy of Israeli firms hope to garner even more sales at the show, after a string of recent successes.

Most of the sales are from four leading companies: Elbit Systems, Israeli Aerospace Industries (IAI), Rafael, and Israel Military Industries, a Defense Ministry statement said.

Strong points of Israel's arms industry include unmanned aerial vehicles, armored vehicles, smart munitions, military and civilian aircraft avionics, weapons platforms and structural upgrades for foreign governments and private clients.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2011-06/20/c_13938425.htm

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #12)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 04:48 PM

14. Think of it as a price of peace.

They are surrounded by enemies armed to the teeth.

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Response to Swede (Reply #14)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 04:53 PM

16. are Israel's enemies armed with nuclear weapons?

like Israel?

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #16)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 06:43 PM

24. Thank god they're not

Cause Israel would be a hole in the ground if they were.

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Response to Swede (Reply #24)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 06:50 PM

25. would it be? and which neighboring country would have bombed Israel? n/t

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #25)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 06:51 PM

26. Which one wouldn't?

nt

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Response to Swede (Reply #26)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 06:53 PM

28. you did not answer my question and let me clarify I asked which (specifically) neighboring

Last edited Tue Jun 26, 2012, 06:54 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

country would nuke Israel, if only it could? Or are you claiming all Arabs are genocidal towards Israel?

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #28)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 06:54 PM

29. You did not answer my question and let me clarify I asked which (specifically) neighboring

wouldn't nuke Israel,if onlly it could?

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Response to Swede (Reply #29)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 06:58 PM

31. and your point in repeating my comment and pretending to ask a question is

Last edited Tue Jun 26, 2012, 07:00 PM USA/ET - Edit history (2)

or is it an avoidance tactic? your answer seems to indicate you believe every Arab country surrounding Israel to be genocidal is that the case?

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #31)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 11:17 PM

41. Answer the question.

nt

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Response to Swede (Reply #41)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 11:25 PM

42. Lol demanding aren't we so can it be taken that you believe and are stating that all Arab countries

Last edited Tue Jun 26, 2012, 11:30 PM USA/ET - Edit history (2)

surrounding Israel have genocidal intent towards Israel?



eta the answer IMO is Jordan but I'm sure you will refute that as they are afterall Arabs and IMO you've made your feelings quite clear or perhaps you should explain how you do not think all Arabs surrounding Israel are genocidal towards Israel ?

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #42)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 11:35 PM

43. Most of your posts end with a question mark. Go back and check.

The Arab countries that are legitmate multiparty democracies won't.

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Response to Swede (Reply #43)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 11:38 PM

44. yes because I'm asking you questions, questions usually end with a question mark

and Lebanon is a democracy so in your opinion Lebanon would not?

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #44)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 11:41 PM

45. Lebanon doesn't control events within it's borders.

nt

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Response to Swede (Reply #45)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 11:56 PM

47. so you believe that someone would secretly have a nuclear bomb in Lebanon?

without the government knowing it or anyone else for that matter?

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #47)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 12:01 AM

48. Some would know,others not.

Israel would of course know whose it actually is and act accordingly if it was used.

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Response to Swede (Reply #48)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 12:08 AM

50. geez this is sounding more like a John le Carre' novel every second n/t

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Response to Swede (Reply #26)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 12:59 AM

65. Jordan, obviously. Lebanon. Egypt has its own problems

You can't assume any longer that the Arabs are obsessed with Israel to the exclusion of everything else. It isn't good vs. evil anymore(as if was for a few weeks in 1948 and not again afterwords).

Neither sides' weaponry or army can claim purity or superiority anymore. It's all just killing for killing's sake now-none of it is self-defense anymore.

Face reality.

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Response to Swede (Reply #24)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 12:56 AM

63. The days when you could assume that the other countries in the region are always crazier than Israel

are gone and gone forever. Nobody's weaponry is any morally purer than anybody else's there now.

All the killing is now equally wrong. None is heroic and none makes anything better.

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Response to Swede (Reply #14)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 12:55 AM

62. The weaponry they have now is ENOUGH

They don't need anymore.

Weapons aren't good for Israel. Neither is the fetish that's made of the army there. Both are corruptions of what Zionism was meant to be about.

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Response to Swede (Reply #11)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 04:49 PM

15. In addition you do realize it was George W Bush who promised Israel $30 billion?

Obama inherited that from him

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Response to Swede (Reply #11)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 12:54 AM

61. There's no way it needs THAT much(editing to correct false figure).

Last edited Wed Jun 27, 2012, 05:59 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

And while we're at it, let's not send any more war money to anybody ELSE in the Middle East. It's time to admit that building up everybody's armies there hasn't achieved anything.

Peace is peace...the status quo in Israel/Palestine isn't peace, and peace cannot be made through Israeli OR Palestinian military "victory"(neither of which could bring anything positive or progressive).

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #61)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 03:46 PM

83. There's no way that it is $30 billion a year.

It's $30 billion over ten years.

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Response to aranthus (Reply #83)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 05:58 PM

86. Even then, there's no way they need THAT much

that's a massive level of funding for implements of death.

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Response to Swede (Reply #8)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 12:51 AM

60. Sending $30 billion dollars over ten years to support more killing(editing to correct the figure)

Last edited Wed Jun 27, 2012, 06:00 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

(which is the same thing as supporting the settlements, the Occupation and everything that country has ever done to Palestinians and supporting it without question)is what's really short-sighted.

The Israeli government doesn't NEED $30 billion dollars to buy more means of slaughter. It has enough already. Sending it more is the same thing as saying "we're against peace".

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #60)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 12:54 PM

76. its 3 bil per year for 10 years, not 30 bil per year

Your being duped by the creative financial analysis (lie) that this group is using.

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Response to Mosby (Reply #76)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 05:59 PM

87. I stand corrected on the number

but it's still an insanely high figure and an endorsement of intransigence.

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #7)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 04:30 PM

10. Is there anything you don't agree with when it comes to Mondoweiss advocacy? n/t

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Response to shira (Reply #10)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 04:46 PM

13. what are you talking about?

fact shira I rarely read Mondoweiss unless its posted here but your soundbyte does sound good I guess

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #13)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 05:58 PM

17. Why do you rarely read Mondoweiss? n/t

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Response to shira (Reply #17)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 06:21 PM

20. Just not on my radar so to speak, I like +972 far more it provides a variety of writers n/t

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #20)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 07:47 PM

36. 972mag actually has much less variety of writers

In fact, it's pretty much only Israeli voices there.

Mondoweiss features writers from around the globe.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #36)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 08:11 PM

37. whatever I still like +972 more

Last edited Tue Jun 26, 2012, 08:12 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

BTW does Phil Weiss include them in every issue yes he does have a variety but of the 28 articles on his front page Weiss wrote 12 of them himself, that's why its his blog you see

actually I'm finding this humorous the nearly Pavlovian response of some here is amazing ding ding

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #37)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 09:28 PM

39. Glad you are enjoying yourself

BTW, I like 972mag more as well.

In fact, I loathe Mondoweiss if that hasn't been made clear.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #39)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 12:20 AM

51. oh I'd have never guessed at you r feelings about Phil Weiss's blog

for myself I just don't read personal blogs that much anymore

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Response to shira (Reply #17)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 09:48 PM

94. Probably because, despite your claims

she isn't unquestioningly in support of whatever Mondoweiss support(I don't read it either...actually, YOU seem to read it far more than either of us).

So now, you need to give that particular smear a rest when it comes to azurnoir.

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Response to Swede (Reply #6)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 12:47 AM

57. When Israel pays their share of US taxes, they can get their share of the US monetary pie

What's good for Peurto Rico, the Marina Islands, Guam, the US Virgin Islands, and other US territories should be good for Israel, too, don't you think?

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Response to Swede (Reply #6)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 12:49 AM

58. Even without any more military aid

Last edited Wed Jun 27, 2012, 06:29 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

Israel would still have a massive war machine.

Sending them $3 billion a year for years to come to murder Palestinians is the same thing as opposing peace.

Israel has the fourth-largest war machine in the world-it doesn't NEED any more military aid.

The implements of death it has now are enough.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #58)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 04:06 PM

85. $3 billion a year.

nt

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Response to Swede (Reply #85)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 06:30 PM

91. Still an insane amount

Israel is militarily secure already.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #91)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 10:37 PM

95. $3 billion is a whole ten dollars per American.

What would an all out middle east war cost?

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Response to Swede (Reply #95)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 11:00 PM

96. It's not as if it's this OR war.

You could have a chance of ending this(it wouldn't be the whole thing, but it can't happen unless this happens)If Israel were to stop treating the Palestinians as they treat them.

That has to happen...and sending Israel billions of dollars to purchase implements of death is the worst possible place to MAKE it happen.

All sending Israel more military aid does is to encourage that country's leaders to never change any of the things they are doing. Sending them that aid simply prolongs the conflict and preserves an intrinsically unjust status quo.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #96)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 11:08 PM

97. That's your opinion. Mine is a war as soon as Israel is seen as weakened.

They are being bombarded with hundreds of missles this past week. Probing for a weakness.

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Response to Swede (Reply #95)

Thu Jun 28, 2012, 12:26 AM

101. $3 billion is actually $1000 per American.

And the amount per American isn't the point. The point is it's an insane amount of weaponry.

The way to make Israel secure is to end the status quo in the West Bank. The Arab countries CAN'T make peace until Palestine is a state. And you know it.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #101)

Thu Jun 28, 2012, 11:02 AM

105. $3 billion divided by 300 million equals ten.

Gaza proves that Israel will never let Palestinians to control the West bank,until the Palestinians have a stable moderate government. Imagine Tel Aviv 8 miles from the fanatics,and Jerusalem surrounded by them. Missles,missles missles. Then the Israelis would crush the Palestinians,back to square one,but with a lot of death and destruction. And you know it.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #58)

Sun Jul 1, 2012, 08:43 PM

107. higher tech weapons...

means less battlefield deaths and lower rates of collateral damage.
Do you oppose that?

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Response to Shaktimaan (Reply #107)

Sun Jul 1, 2012, 08:48 PM

108. Serious negotiations in which the Palestinian side was treated as equal

would reduce battlefield deaths and collateral damage even more.

All more military aid really does is encourage Bibi and Co. to be arrogant and intransigent.

And really, why SHOULD that country always get more of a free pass on military aid than ANY other? It's not as if Israel is infallible among the nations...and it's not as if they're always right and the Palestinians are always wrong.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #108)

Tue Jul 3, 2012, 12:58 AM

118. you do not know that.

Serious negotiations in which the Palestinian side was treated as equal would reduce battlefield deaths and collateral damage even more.

Where's your evidence? Thus far, every serious negotiation has resulted in more terrorism and greater violence. Now, if more military aid would enable Israel to build more bomb shelters or a better early warning system for qassams or even finish their missile defense initiative, then why would you argue against it? There are plenty of defensive uses for that money and plenty of uses for it to make weapons more precise, thus minimizing casualties.

Hey, renouncing terrorism would also have the same effect but the Palestinians have not done that yet. And cutting military aid will do absolutely nothing to alter Bibi's stance regarding the Palestinians.

All more military aid really does is encourage Bibi and Co. to be arrogant and intransigent.

So you are willing to allow more innocent Israelis and Palestinians die in the service of preventing Bibi from getting any more arrogant? That sounds kind of arrogant itself.

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Response to Shaktimaan (Reply #118)

Tue Jul 3, 2012, 01:19 AM

119. so negotiating with the Palestinians results in more Israeli deaths according to you

and yet Netanyahu says he is ready for more negotiations hmmmm

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #119)

Tue Jul 3, 2012, 03:13 AM

120. correlation does not equal causation. np

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 12:43 AM

52. So much for free speech in L.A.

Last edited Wed Jun 27, 2012, 12:43 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

There was nothing offensive about those billboards. It's just as legitimate to advocate a cutoff in U.S. aid to Israel as it is to advocate any other position in this country.

The fact is, nothing in Israel will change as long as its leaders can assume that we'll subsidize them no matter what. Pushing for an aid cutoff is the only way to get them to stop building the criminal, immoral, and anti-peace West Bank settlements.

If we keep just sending the money, Likud will be in power forever and only a noble progressive minority there will actually ever come out for peace.

Sending the money forever means giving up on peace forever.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #52)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 01:58 PM

80. It has nothing to do with free speech The promoters breached the contract.

So CBS cancelled it.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 02:46 AM

68. These groups would have an easier time if they weren't specifically targeting aid to Israel.

If they instead were critical of that, and of aid to Egypt and perhaps other regional states, then it would be a different matter. We do know that there are anti-Semites that must be isolated and opposed - we must not strengthen them unwittingly.

I believe that US aid should be used to support international trends of peace and economic development.

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Response to David__77 (Reply #68)

Wed Jun 27, 2012, 11:16 PM

98. oh you mean just like who is that again let me think...............Ron Paul? n/t

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