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Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:27 PM

Palestinians killed at Lebanon refugee camps

At least two people have been killed and several others, including three soldiers, wounded in separate clashes at Palestinian refugee camps in Lebanon, officials said.

Monday's violence started at the Nahr al-Bared camp near the costal city of Tripoli after the funeral of a refugee who had been killed by the military on Friday, according to a security official.

"One Palestinian refugee was killed and seven others were wounded by gunfire," the official said on condition of anonymity.

-snip-

On Friday, the army shot dead a Palestinian and wounded three others when a dispute over identity papers at Nahr al-Bared turned violent, a Palestinian source said.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/06/2012618175048595517.html

33 replies, 2468 views

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Arrow 33 replies Author Time Post
Reply Palestinians killed at Lebanon refugee camps (Original post)
Mosby Jun 2012 OP
aquart Jun 2012 #1
LeftishBrit Jun 2012 #2
azurnoir Jun 2012 #3
oberliner Jun 2012 #4
azurnoir Jun 2012 #5
Mosby Jun 2012 #6
azurnoir Jun 2012 #11
shira Jun 2012 #13
azurnoir Jun 2012 #15
shira Jun 2012 #19
azurnoir Jun 2012 #20
shira Jun 2012 #23
azurnoir Jun 2012 #24
shira Jun 2012 #25
azurnoir Jun 2012 #29
shira Jun 2012 #31
azurnoir Jun 2012 #33
shira Jun 2012 #7
azurnoir Jun 2012 #10
shira Jun 2012 #12
azurnoir Jun 2012 #16
shira Jun 2012 #18
azurnoir Jun 2012 #21
shira Jun 2012 #22
azurnoir Jun 2012 #26
shira Jun 2012 #27
azurnoir Jun 2012 #28
shira Jun 2012 #32
pelsar Jun 2012 #14
azurnoir Jun 2012 #17
pelsar Jun 2012 #30
shaayecanaan Jun 2012 #8
oberliner Jun 2012 #9

Response to Mosby (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 01:44 PM

1. Again?

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Response to Mosby (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 05:54 PM

2. Argh; that's vile - and not the first or second time such things have happened.

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Response to Mosby (Original post)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 06:09 PM

3. The situation in Lebanon for Palestinians is awful and these types of killings should be condemned

however they also should point to why a Palestinian state is necessary and perhaps why the suggestion that Palestinians should be resettled in the countries their camps are located in is really not a solution at all but could further the misery they already live in

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #3)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 06:31 PM

4. The Palestinians in Lebanon are not from the West Bank and Gaza

They are from northern Israel - and that is where they expect to eventually return. What is now the Acre-Haifa area.

That aside, there is no reason why Lebanon needs to continue to discriminate against these Palestinians, the vast majority of whom were born in Lebanon and have lived there all their lives.

Work permits, the right to own property, and other basic rights ought to be extended to them regardless of what is going on with Israel.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #4)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 06:46 PM

5. who said anything about need , what I said is the reality

and the Palestinian Refugees in Lebanon may have been born there but are they wanted there, it seems not as to where they're originally from would you say the same about Jews from other countries where they may face similar discrimination making aliyah to Israel? somehow I doubt it

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #5)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:24 PM

6. bottom line they are needlessly stateless

Even if the lebanese gov was to do the right thing and give them citizenship and the other stuff oberliner mentioned, they could still emigrate to Palestine if it ever emerges.

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Response to Mosby (Reply #6)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:15 PM

11. I agree however you'd force down the throat so to speak

of a state who unstable itself and hostile to them in any event rather than give them own state

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #11)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 08:03 AM

13. They're not invited as citizens into the W.Bank once a Palestinian state comes into existence...

The PA ambassador from Lebanon said so. I think he knows what he's talking about.

No higher ups in the PA have said otherwise.

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Response to shira (Reply #13)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 01:57 PM

15. Didn't Abbas who is the leader of the PA and PLO say Palestinian refugees

would not automatically be citizens of a Palestinian state? Once again are Jews automatically citizens of Israel? My guess is that had Abbas said anything else you'd be accusing Abbas of inviting terrorists, but thanks you do prove my point about the ProIsrael ability to spin anything said by Abbas into something negative thanks

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #15)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 08:35 AM

19. No, he didn't. That wouldn't be news. Everyone knows it would take time to naturalize...

...citizens, as it couldn't happen all at one time. The news is that they won't take the refugees in at all.

Here's Abbas from August 2011...
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ar&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.palpress.co.uk%2Farabic%2F%3Faction%3Ddetail%26id%3D17041

Abbas says in that article he's against Lebanon making refugees into citizens. He talks about full right of return for those refugees. Nothing about them eventually becoming citizens of a future Palestine.

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Response to shira (Reply #19)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 12:50 PM

20. Does Abbas say that ? really

here are some snips from the article

President Mahmoud Abbas' The presence of Palestinian refugees in Lebanon and the presence of temporary and is subject to Lebanese law, and access to civil rights to live in dignity in Lebanon does not mean never settling, and we reject the principle of resettlement categorically, and we demand to guarantee the right to return full every Palestinian, no springs to mind that we think of resettlement because we know exactly what this word means'.

............................


He continued: 'Do not forget the role of' UNRWA 'to see their role and provide a decent life for the Palestinian refugees, and said:' This is an international responsibility and we have to foiling a plan to merge the agency with any other agency or terminate its role as a prelude to resettlement of the Palestinians, and the task of UNRWA's remaining temporary humanitarian until the solution final for them and this solution does not only come to recognize the right of Palestinians to return to their land and refusal of settlement '.

On the maturity of September, the new president, Mahmoud Abbas, the emphasis on going to the United Nations next month, to gain recognition of Palestine as a sovereign state on the borders of June in 1967 and East Jerusalem as its capital.

...............................................

He added: 'We are advocates of peace we seek to gain our freedom and our independence and our sovereignty over our land like the rest of the world, and we do not make unilateral and does not contradict with the principle of negotiations on the basis of international legitimacy, but it must be pointed out that negotiations require a cessation of Israeli settlement in full, either in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. '

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #20)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 02:15 PM

23. Yeah, he did. Really.

President Mahmoud Abbas' The presence of Palestinian refugees in Lebanon and the presence of temporary and is subject to Lebanese law, and access to civil rights to live in dignity in Lebanon does not mean never settling, and we reject the principle of resettlement categorically, and we demand to guarantee the right to return full every Palestinian, no springs to mind that we think of resettlement because we know exactly what this word means'.


No settling in Lebanon.

Full RoR.

No option within the Palestinian state.

=====

Seems hard to believe but look at refugee camps WITHIN the W.Bank now. Why are they still refugees?

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Response to shira (Reply #23)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 02:56 PM

24. yes Abbas rejected resettlement in Lebanon

but to you that automatically means Israel as an alternative it could appear a Palestinian state is not even part of your lexicon, but that's not true, is it?

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #24)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 03:03 PM

25. What part of full right of return did you miss in that article? n/t

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Response to shira (Reply #25)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 03:13 PM

29. Post it for us please? n/t

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #29)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 03:33 PM

31. It's in bold, post #23 above. n/t

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Response to shira (Reply #31)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 03:41 PM

33. But you see that is to be negotiated isn't it and seeing as how Israel's Deputy PM of Internal

Affairs said just last week that Israel was deporting Sundanese asylum seekers to ensure the Jewish nature of Israel that will not be agreed to so a Palestinian state is the only alternative, and wasn't that interview a year old prior to the failed UN bid?

However it seems you would force a Palestinian population down the throats of a country does not want them, because they are all called Arabs, but it could line up with what Yishai said about Israel's Jewish nature

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #5)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 08:54 PM

7. Right, it's all Israel's fault that Lebanon is mean to Palestinians....

There's no point trying to hold Lebanon accountable for what they do. In fact, they can do whatever they wish. That's the progressive way. It's Israel's fault, not theirs. Nothing better can or should be expected from Lebanon. Israel yes, Lebanon no because they're like mentally challenged children. Besides, to blame Lebanon is to take "pressure" off Israel. It's just hasbara that keeps the occupation and settlements going.

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Response to shira (Reply #7)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 11:12 PM

10. shira your answer to my comment verges on silly n/t

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #10)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 07:52 AM

12. It is a silly view, isn't it? Maybe you should clear up any misunderstandings. n/t

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Response to shira (Reply #12)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 02:03 PM

16. Go back and reread the comment

you are the one blathering on about Israel, I asked would you expect Jew to remain in countries where they faced discrimination similar to that experienced by Palestinians in Lebanon, clearly such a question rattles you why?

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #16)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 08:33 AM

18. They're not citizens. They should be. They should have that choice. Once they're citizens...

...they could be like any of the other refugees who also became citizens of Lebanon and enjoy equal rights with other Lebanese citizens.

http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2012/04/680-more-gazans-become-egyptian.html

You'll see most refugees want citizenship in the countries where they were born.

So why aren't you advocating for the civil rights of Palestinian refugees who choose to be citizens where they were born? You said you're concerned about their civil rights.

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Response to shira (Reply #18)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 12:58 PM

21. why would you have Palestinian refugees made citizens of a country that clearly is hostile to them?

and if they would really prefer to stay in Lebanon I guess that kind of delegitimizes the claim of the 'conspiracy' to flood Israel with nonJews,

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #21)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 02:08 PM

22. Ask them. They want citizenship and equal rights. That means no more hostility. n/t

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Response to shira (Reply #22)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 03:04 PM

26. ask who the Palestinians or the Lebanese? so you think one can legislate thought and actions is that

it? If this is true of Lebanon, why not Israel? Could it be because they're all Arabs, could seems you have a thing for ethnic purity or something? however thanks for this, you keep it up now hear

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #26)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 03:06 PM

27. The Palestinian refugees want citizenship. You wish to deny them that choice?

And what about Israel?

Are you suggesting they all go to Israel b/c Israel treats Palestinians better than any other mideast nation?

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Response to shira (Reply #27)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 03:12 PM

28. I keep saying Palestiinian state (in the West Bank) you keep saying Israel this could infer

that you think the West Bank is already Israel, or your reading comprehension is off or something?

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #28)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 03:37 PM

32. Lebanon is not an option for them, as the PA ambassador to Lebanon announced, as well as Abbas

You're not giving them a 'choice' at all.

They're not wanted in the W.Bank.

They are not going to Israel.

You're still talking fantasy.

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #5)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 09:44 AM

14. reality?......lets take a look at reality....

the Palestinians in Lebanon have never had a chance to assimilate since they've been cooped up within camps with laws limiting their integration into the society.

Perhaps if Lebanon would allow the Palestinians unlike most other arab countries to integrate within their country that would alleviate the discrimination...as we see what has happened in other western countries.

what for sure doesn't work is to keep a group isolated within certain specific areas, use laws to limit their freedom and then be "surprised" that they are not wanted.
____

but thats not the issue with you is it....as we've discovered recently. Your more of the "do what ever it takes to keep the Palestinians angry about their lives, to right a 'wrong." ..and if that means putting off giving them civil rights (your words), then that too is fine.

like the arab countries and others, if there is a choice between having the Palestinians resettled and start a new life based on civil rights or languishing in camps, (in limbo), to one day return to their Palestine you prefer the latter...(sure sounds like the rw nationalism to me-nationalism being more important than civil rights)

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Response to pelsar (Reply #14)

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 02:08 PM

17. and what have you said that refutes anything I've said

what is clear is that you'd rather keep Palestinians in a country where they are clearly not wanted rather than allowing them their own country, never had a chance to assimilate? sort of like Jews never had a chance to assimilate in Poland and Russia to name a couple of places because they were kept in separate communities and not allowed to work in certain professions and where they subject to violence at the hands of the populace? interesting

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #17)

Thu Jun 21, 2012, 03:15 PM

30. so no pressure on the Lebanese...is that it?

i thought the UNs job as well as all the nice progressives was to put pressure on countries like Lebanon to make sure the Palestenains get the civil rights they deserve.

am i to understand you correctly that because jews lived in Ghettos so many years ago, the Palestenians who live in Lebanon without civil rights, is acceptable and there is no real need to spend precious resources to attempt to change that?

sure seems to be an interesting position.

i don't see the conflict in Palestinians having full civil rights/citizenship while living in Lebanon and one day if the PA/Hamas permits the can return to their state.....perhaps you would like to explain it?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #4)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:07 PM

8. Some are from the West Bank...

particularly from when Palestinians fled the Black September fighting in Jordan.

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Response to shaayecanaan (Reply #8)

Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:52 PM

9. Very few

Here is the breakdown:

38% - Acre area
30% - Safed area
10% - Haifa area
9% - Nazareth area
8% - Tiberias area

That's a total of 95% from what is now northern Israel.

And 80% of them expect to return to those locations.

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