Sun Jun 17, 2012, 04:16 PM
oberliner (22,355 posts)
Officials: Hamas ordered Grad attack on Israel at request of Muslim Brotherhood
Israeli security officials say that the rockets that landed on Friday in the area near Ovda and Mitzpeh Ramon, were launched after a request by senior leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. According to these officials, the rockets were launched from the Sinai Peninsula by a Bedouin unit, according to Hamas orders, even though Hamas itself wasn't the initiator of the launching, but responded to the request of the Brotherhood, who wanted such an event on the eve of the second round of presidential elections in Egypt. It is yet unclear why the Brotherhood requested such an unusual action, a first military strike against Israel, or whether the strike was aimed at specific sites in the area.
So far, the Muslim Brotherhood leaders have presented a moderate stance towards Israel in their talks with the international community, stressing that they had to intention of annulling the peace accords, a position reiterated by presidential candidate, Mohamed Morsi. Still, in the buildup to the elections, Brotherhood speakers have been known to speak fiercely against Israel. In one gathering, in the beginning of May at El-Mahalla El-Kubra, Brotherhood leaders promised, in the presence of Morsi, that the object of the Brotherhood is to liberate Jerusalem. The main speaker at that gathering, Sifwat Hijazi, said that Morsi would liberate Jerusalem and that the Brotherhood's dream was the creation of the "united Arab nations," with Jerusalem as its capital. "Our capital won't be Mecca or Medina, but Jerusalem, millions of shahids will march on the city" shouted Hijazi, "the whole world should know - and we say it clearly - our goal is Jerusalem, we shall pray in Jerusalem, and if not - we shall die as martyrs on its ruins." Another speaker that day said that "tomorrow Morsi will liberate Gaza." A singer sang: "The Jews will not be able to sleep, come, lovers of martyrs, you're all Hamas. Take on arms, and prepare for prayer." http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/officials-hamas-ordered-grad-attack-on-israel-at-request-of-muslim-brotherhood-1.436787
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15 replies, 1329 views
| Author | Time | Post | |
| oberliner | Jun 2012 | OP | |
| azurnoir | Jun 2012 | #1 | |
| Igel | Jun 2012 | #2 | |
| azurnoir | Jun 2012 | #3 | |
| King_David | Jun 2012 | #4 | |
| azurnoir | Jun 2012 | #6 | |
| Fozzledick | Jun 2012 | #8 | |
| azurnoir | Jun 2012 | #10 | |
| shira | Jun 2012 | #5 | |
| azurnoir | Jun 2012 | #9 | |
| oberliner | Jun 2012 | #11 | |
| azurnoir | Jun 2012 | #12 | |
| oberliner | Jun 2012 | #14 | |
| azurnoir | Jun 2012 | #15 | |
| azurnoir | Jun 2012 | #13 | |
| bemildred | Jun 2012 | #7 |
Response to oberliner (Original post)
Sun Jun 17, 2012, 04:36 PM
azurnoir (27,380 posts)
1. wouldn't this be an act of war against Israel on the part of Egypt?
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why is Israel allowing itself to appear weak by allowing this?
Perhaps they should initiate a new bombing campaign against Gaza that'll teach 'em huh? |
Response to azurnoir (Reply #1)
Sun Jun 17, 2012, 05:38 PM
Igel (17,634 posts)
2. Not really.
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Hezbollah, part of the Lebanese government with its own parallel militia, fought with Israel. The loud verdict was that Hezbollah wasn't the Lebanese government, so that Lebanon itself, all its people and territory, were properly to be held inviolate.
You can't punish part for the actions of a part because you're not infallible and omniscient and might make a mistake, and you certainly can't punish the whole for the actions of a part. Nor can you hold the whole guilty for not policing all of its parts, not when it might prove inconvenient for the whole or any of the parts. It sounds stupid. Intentionally so. The Ikhwan is part of the Egyptian government (less so now, presumably, than a week ago). But only part. Can the State of Egypt be held responsible for the actions of a civilian part? Would it be an act of war by the US if the Republican Party asked a group of Shabiha to attack a town in Lebanon and the town was attacked? No. But let's continue. This has plausible deniability: Hamas issued the order, not the Ikhwan, and this is according to the Infidel Zionist Press of Perfidy and Zionism. If they're infidel to Allah, could they be any less infidel to the truth? Why, it's an affront to mock Egyptian dignity. One should not mock Egyptian dignity. (And if it's one thing that's important, it's avoiding giving mock Egyptian dignity any affront whatsoever. Or to even just to give mock Egyptian dignity--there's an oversupply of it on the world markets and they just keep on cranking it out at home.) Moreover, in an area with miscreants that we know the writ of the government barely extends to, shouldn't we expect acts of lawlessness? (I'm using pseudo-Pakistanese in that line, so do prefer retroflexion to reflection.) |
Response to Igel (Reply #2)
Sun Jun 17, 2012, 07:07 PM
azurnoir (27,380 posts)
3. "you certainly can't punish the whole for the actions of a part"
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edited to fit the title line whole quote
"You can't punish part for the actions of a part because you're not infallible and omniscient and might make a mistake, and you certainly can't punish the whole for the actions of a part. Nor can you hold the whole guilty for not policing all of its parts, not when it might prove inconvenient for the whole or any of the parts. " well Israel seems to have few compunctions about doing either Operation Cast Lead and Lebanon 2006 would be testament to that |
Response to azurnoir (Reply #1)
Sun Jun 17, 2012, 07:13 PM
King_David (4,685 posts)
4. One thing you are right about,
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Israel can not sit back and do nothing.
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Response to King_David (Reply #4)
Mon Jun 18, 2012, 01:49 PM
azurnoir (27,380 posts)
6. well it seems bombing Gaza is the order of the day
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Israeli Air Force strikes northern Gaza
http://www.timesofisrael.com/air-force-strikes-gaza/ http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=496479 http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4244138,00.html |
Response to azurnoir (Reply #6)
Mon Jun 18, 2012, 05:05 PM
Fozzledick (2,102 posts)
8. So, are you happy now?
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Only took a day to get what you wanted!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=12051 |
Response to Fozzledick (Reply #8)
Mon Jun 18, 2012, 09:20 PM
azurnoir (27,380 posts)
10. what I wanted? no, what I predicted Israel would do, yes
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but I'm sure people appreciate you posting a link to comment #1 on a thread that has 10 comments counting this one, progressives have reputedly short memories something to do with ah...... can't remember
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Response to oberliner (Original post)
Sun Jun 17, 2012, 08:21 PM
shira (18,344 posts)
5. Maybe this was part of the reason the Egyptian Military canceled parliamentary results...
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...that put the MB into power.
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Response to shira (Reply #5)
Mon Jun 18, 2012, 09:16 PM
azurnoir (27,380 posts)
9. well that didn't work out all to well did it? MB is solidly in power now n/t
Response to azurnoir (Reply #9)
Mon Jun 18, 2012, 09:33 PM
oberliner (22,355 posts)
11. MB is solidly in power now?
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How closely are you following events in Egypt exactly?
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Response to oberliner (Reply #11)
Mon Jun 18, 2012, 09:37 PM
azurnoir (27,380 posts)
12. They won the election thats as far as I know I'm you would find it quite satisfying
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to post an update for me?
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Response to azurnoir (Reply #12)
Mon Jun 18, 2012, 09:48 PM
oberliner (22,355 posts)
14. It's complicated
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This may be of interest:
Egypt’s Generals Hollow Out Its Presidency http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/18/egypts-generals-hollow-out-its-presidency/ To give you a simplified summary: MB candidate won the presidency, but military has passed laws giving it power over that position. Thus the aforementioned complications. |
Response to oberliner (Reply #14)
Mon Jun 18, 2012, 09:54 PM
azurnoir (27,380 posts)
15. thanks I read something similar on Haaretz earlier
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we'll see happens
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Response to oberliner (Reply #11)
Mon Jun 18, 2012, 09:44 PM
azurnoir (27,380 posts)
13. not to mention this thread were the same thing was stated
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/113412134#post19
strangely you did not feel the need to question that |
Response to oberliner (Original post)
Mon Jun 18, 2012, 01:58 PM
bemildred (67,731 posts)
7. Strange story.
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Some parts of it sound almost as looney as the stuff that goes on in Washington, people who are negotiating strange deals far, far away from anything to do with the real world.
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