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Wed Aug 1, 2012, 11:02 PM

Are Butterflies Two Different Animals in One? The Death And Resurrection Theory

Here's a dangerous, crazy thought from an otherwise sober (and very eminent) biologist, Bernd Heinrich. He's thinking about moths and butterflies, and how they radically change shape as they grow, from little wormy, caterpillar critters to airborne beauties. Why, he wondered, do these flying animals begin their lives as wingless, crawling worms? Baby ducks have wings. Baby bats have wings. Why not baby butterflies?

His answer and I'm quoting him here knocked me silly.

"he radical change that occurs," he says, "does indeed arguably involve death followed by reincarnation."

What?

http://www.npr.org/blogs/krulwich/2012/08/01/157718428/are-butterflies-two-different-animals-in-one-the-death-and-resurrection-theory

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Reply Are Butterflies Two Different Animals in One? The Death And Resurrection Theory (Original post)
XemaSab Aug 2012 OP
RobertEarl Aug 2012 #1
notadmblnd Aug 2012 #3
RobertEarl Aug 2012 #4
Xipe Totec Aug 2012 #2
appal_jack Aug 2012 #5
Scootaloo Aug 2012 #6
GliderGuider Aug 2012 #7
phantom power Aug 2012 #8
GliderGuider Aug 2012 #9
RobertEarl Aug 2012 #10

Response to XemaSab (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 11:28 PM

1. arguably, that is correct

The caterpillar dies or at least goes into a state of something like rigor-mortis in cocoon. Then after a time of inactivity morphs into the butterfly.

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #1)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 11:39 PM

3. if it were inactive or dead, it would not become a butterfly.

Now if I were to step on and mash a cocoon, then it most certainly would not become a butterfly because it would be dead. If it did become a butterfly after being mashed into worm juice, then it would truly be resurrection

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Response to notadmblnd (Reply #3)

Thu Aug 2, 2012, 12:07 AM

4. You would kill butterflies?

Heh. <smile>

Re-organizing the established parameters of said butterfly-in-waiting would be an external force unable to be overcome.

The idea here is metamorphism in its natural state which in relativity to other life forms has an appearance of death and resurrection.

I can think of no other specie which grows in such a way.
True, dragonflies and the like do start off as macro-invertebrates but their adult forms take shape within the confines of their immature bodies.

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Response to XemaSab (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 11:30 PM

2. Made me think. Seriously.

Thanks!

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Response to XemaSab (Original post)

Thu Aug 2, 2012, 12:44 AM

5. We also begin as worm-like creatures

We also begin as worm-like creatures, but we are in our mothers' wombs at the time. Is birth also a form of resurrection?

Of course, some humanoid creatures, such as Mitt Romney and Dick Cheney, retain many of their wormy characteristics later into life.

-app

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Response to XemaSab (Original post)

Thu Aug 2, 2012, 01:18 AM

6. Always remember...

Insects (arthropods in general, but especially insects) art the most advanced, most successful branch of life on this world. The forms they have evolved make some of our modern technology look like it's still made of sticks and wood by comparison. Any outside observer would have to conclude that these critters are the dominant form of multicellular life on this planet... And unlike many others they are in no risk of ever dying out in full.

We are nothing but clumsy land-fish still trying to figure out how to deal with the dangers of, you know, locomotion.

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Response to XemaSab (Original post)

Thu Aug 2, 2012, 09:33 AM

7. Yes, I tend to agree.

Caterpillars undergo a process of autolysis (self-digestion) in the pupa, that reduces them to a liquid soup. In that soup are special cells called "imaginal" cells (probably a kind of stem cell) that seed the development of the butterfly. It's very much a death and resurrection process.

Some spiritually inclined environmentalists (me among them) see this process as a metaphor for what we hope will happen to humanity during and after the coming collapse of civilization and world population.

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Response to GliderGuider (Reply #7)

Thu Aug 2, 2012, 09:50 AM

8. autolysis

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Response to phantom power (Reply #8)

Thu Aug 2, 2012, 09:58 AM

9. And this...

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Response to XemaSab (Original post)

Thu Aug 2, 2012, 11:36 PM

10. Seeds

Take a seed. It morphs from one thing to another.

May be caterpillars are just the seed for a butterfly?

How about eggs? Do they not go from one form and morph into another?

All this activity is what could even be called the God particle at work?

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