Wed Aug 1, 2012, 11:02 PM

XemaSab (57,387 posts)

Are Butterflies Two Different Animals in One? The Death And Resurrection Theory

Here's a dangerous, crazy thought from an otherwise sober (and very eminent) biologist, Bernd Heinrich. He's thinking about moths and butterflies, and how they radically change shape as they grow, from little wormy, caterpillar critters to airborne beauties. Why, he wondered, do these flying animals begin their lives as wingless, crawling worms? Baby ducks have wings. Baby bats have wings. Why not baby butterflies?

His answer — and I'm quoting him here — knocked me silly.

"he radical change that occurs," he says, "does indeed arguably involve death followed by reincarnation."

What?

http://www.npr.org/blogs/krulwich/2012/08/01/157718428/are-butterflies-two-different-animals-in-one-the-death-and-resurrection-theory

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10 replies	Author	Time	Post
Are Butterflies Two Different Animals in One? The Death And Resurrection Theory (Original post)	XemaSab	Aug 2012	OP
arguably, that is correct	RobertEarl	Aug 2012	#1
if it were inactive or dead, it would not become a butterfly.	notadmblnd	Aug 2012	#3
You would kill butterflies?	RobertEarl	Aug 2012	#4
Made me think. Seriously.	Xipe Totec	Aug 2012	#2
We also begin as worm-like creatures	appal_jack	Aug 2012	#5
Always remember...	Scootaloo	Aug 2012	#6
Yes, I tend to agree.	GliderGuider	Aug 2012	#7
autolysis	phantom power	Aug 2012	#8
And this...	GliderGuider	Aug 2012	#9
Seeds	RobertEarl	Aug 2012	#10

Response to XemaSab (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 11:28 PM

RobertEarl (2,874 posts)

1. arguably, that is correct

The caterpillar dies or at least goes into a state of something like rigor-mortis in cocoon. Then after a time of inactivity morphs into the butterfly.

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #1)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 11:39 PM

notadmblnd (17,098 posts)

3. if it were inactive or dead, it would not become a butterfly.

Now if I were to step on and mash a cocoon, then it most certainly would not become a butterfly because it would be dead. If it did become a butterfly after being mashed into worm juice, then it would truly be resurrection

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Response to notadmblnd (Reply #3)

Thu Aug 2, 2012, 12:07 AM

RobertEarl (2,874 posts)

4. You would kill butterflies?

Heh. <smile>

Re-organizing the established parameters of said butterfly-in-waiting would be an external force unable to be overcome.

The idea here is metamorphism in its natural state which in relativity to other life forms has an appearance of death and resurrection.

I can think of no other specie which grows in such a way.
True, dragonflies and the like do start off as macro-invertebrates but their adult forms take shape within the confines of their immature bodies.

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Response to XemaSab (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 11:30 PM

Xipe Totec (29,810 posts)

2. Made me think. Seriously.

Thanks!

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Response to XemaSab (Original post)

Thu Aug 2, 2012, 12:44 AM

appal_jack (1,806 posts)

5. We also begin as worm-like creatures

We also begin as worm-like creatures, but we are in our mothers' wombs at the time. Is birth also a form of resurrection?

Of course, some humanoid creatures, such as Mitt Romney and Dick Cheney, retain many of their wormy characteristics later into life.

-app

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Response to XemaSab (Original post)

Thu Aug 2, 2012, 01:18 AM

Scootaloo (5,842 posts)

6. Always remember...

Insects (arthropods in general, but especially insects) art the most advanced, most successful branch of life on this world. The forms they have evolved make some of our modern technology look like it's still made of sticks and wood by comparison. Any outside observer would have to conclude that these critters are the dominant form of multicellular life on this planet... And unlike many others they are in no risk of ever dying out in full.

We are nothing but clumsy land-fish still trying to figure out how to deal with the dangers of, you know, locomotion.

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Response to XemaSab (Original post)

Thu Aug 2, 2012, 09:33 AM

GliderGuider (15,149 posts)

7. Yes, I tend to agree.

Caterpillars undergo a process of autolysis (self-digestion) in the pupa, that reduces them to a liquid soup. In that soup are special cells called "imaginal" cells (probably a kind of stem cell) that seed the development of the butterfly. It's very much a death and resurrection process.

Some spiritually inclined environmentalists (me among them) see this process as a metaphor for what we hope will happen to humanity during and after the coming collapse of civilization and world population.

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Response to GliderGuider (Reply #7)

Thu Aug 2, 2012, 09:50 AM

phantom power (22,513 posts)

8. autolysis

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Response to phantom power (Reply #8)

Thu Aug 2, 2012, 09:58 AM

GliderGuider (15,149 posts)

9. And this...

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Response to XemaSab (Original post)

Thu Aug 2, 2012, 11:36 PM

RobertEarl (2,874 posts)

10. Seeds

Take a seed. It morphs from one thing to another.

May be caterpillars are just the seed for a butterfly?

How about eggs? Do they not go from one form and morph into another?

All this activity is what could even be called the God particle at work?

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