Wind turbines are such a blight on the landscape

[dipsydoodle]

[madokie]

1. I had to pass this one on

as I was LMAO

[dipsydoodle]

2. This outfit had posted it on FB

http://www.sierraclub.org/windworks/ so I thought I'd share it here.

[BlueJazz]

3. Had one guy tell me "Those wind machines kill some birds"

I answered "and oil spills don't kill birds and thousands of other creatures??"

[dipsydoodle]

4. They do

Its a very unfortunate side issue. Your answer however was perfect.

[Ilsa]

6. I bet he wouldn't have complained if

the birds were killed by shotguns.

[liberal N proud]

9. "Some" being the operative word

How many birds are killed by oil slicks - many.
How many birds are hit by cars - some. Should we stop driving our cars?

[KansDem]

15. Cats

Nearly 80 percent of the birds were killed by predators, and cats were responsible for 47 percent of those deaths, according to the researchers, from the Smithsonian Institution and Towson University in Maryland. Death rates were particularly high in neighborhoods with large cat populations.

Predation was so serious in some areas that the catbirds could not replace their numbers for the next generation, according to the researchers, who affixed tiny radio transmitters to the birds to follow them. It is the first scientific study to calculate what fraction of bird deaths during the vulnerable fledgling stage can be attributed to cats.

“Cats are way up there in terms of threats to birds — they are a formidable force in driving out native species,” said Peter Marra of the Smithsonian Conservation Biology Institute, one of the authors of the study.

The American Bird Conservancy estimates that up to 500 million birds are killed each year by cats — about half by pets and half by feral felines. “I hope we can now stop minimizing and trivializing the impacts that outdoor cats have on the environment and start addressing the serious problem of cat predation,” said Darin Schroeder, the group’s vice president for conservation advocacy.

By contrast, 440,000 birds are killed by wind turbines each year, according to the United States Fish and Wildlife Service, although that number is expected to exceed one million by 2030 as the number of wind farms grows to meet increased demand.

--more--
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/21/science/21birds.html

500,000,000 vs. 440,000

[tech3149]

16. My cat only kills a few birds a year

Other people must have some pretty fierce felines. Of course she was 10 years old yesterday so mabey she's slowing down a bit.

[Peregrine Took]

27. Have a heart for the wildlife and put a bell on her.

Those pop collars with the bell are cheap, she won't get tangled up in it and it will give the little critters warning that a predator is on the loose.

[caraher]

35. Not really

The Humane Society says there are 86.4 million cats kept as pets in the US, and I've seen it estimated that there are another 60 million feral cats for a total of almost 150 million cats. For cats to kill 500 million birds a year that works out to an average of a bit more than 3 birds per year per cat.

So your cat is pretty average. (Maybe above average - she might kill some you never see.) I'd imagine the feral cats kill more of necessity, compensating for housecats that never get out to hunt birds.

[SoutherDem]

44. It may be more than 3 per year

My cats and those of many of my friends are house cats and never go out, two of mine have never stepped on soil, born in house goes to vet in carrier, they do however occasionally get a field mouse which happens into the house.

[crunch60]

37. Nature against nature I can accept, what is difficult for me, is man's

wrath against nature, The preventable oil spills, clubbing to death beautiful seals for their furs, (except for indigenous tribes) who hunt out of necessity. The Michael Vick's of the world, and the disgusting treatment of livestock in large factory farms. Most recently, the atrocious, illegal scoring of the feet/ankles of beautiful Tennessee Walking Horses to make them lift their legs very high. Excruciatingly painful for these abused animals.

These are the things that make my blood boil in anger and disgust.

[SoutherDem]

45. The best way to protect wildlife would be for the extinction of man

not that I advocate that, but some seem to feel our job is to rape and pillage the planet.

[kurtzapril4]

48. The practice of "soring"

Tennesse Walking horses has been going on for many decades, it's certainly not a recent practice.

[crunch60]

52. I was talking about the most recent video "exposure" of this disgusting, illegal abuse of the

Tennessee Walking horse. Your casual comment seems to imply, that because this soring practice has gone on for decades, it's OK? The more the criminal abuse of our animal friends is exposed, the more difficult will be for the public to accept, participate or view these types of " horse shows."

Many people don't know about this horrific abuse of this breed of horses, just like they didn't know about Michael Vick's torture and killing of his fighting pit bull dogs. Exposure of his crime, put him out of business. One down, many to go.

What man will do for his own warped sense of pleasure, is beyond me... . animals have no voice, we must advocate for them. PAWS .

[Voice for Peace]

51. thank you

though nature vs nature is pretty heartbreaking.. I can't watch nature shows that show baby animals getting eaten so other baby animals can have food.. it tortures me

[Zoeisright]

50. Keep your cat inside. For her sake.

Indoor cats live an average of 13 - 18 years. Outdoor cats live 3 - 5 years on average. I've seen too many cats killed by cars and other animals. There are some strays around our house (we have completely indoor cats) and there's one I've been trying to catch; one of her hind legs was terribly injured.

[Ilsa]

5. The really cool thing is that

engineers are coming up with new turbine designs that are streamlined. They are lovely.

[bupkus]

7. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

As is ugly.

Not to mention the effects of burning fossil fuels vs harnessing the wind for energy.

[dipsydoodle]

10. I like the look of them

They're just modern windmills. Old style would look better but never mind.

[liberal N proud]

8. K&R 1000 X's

[Uben]

11. When I read the thread title......

....that picture is exactly what I had in my mind! We have a wind farm nearby, and it is located in an area that is an abandoned oil field.
Instead of the multiple pumpjacks, the turbines spin serenly over the pastures, now cleared of all the old pumpjacks. I love riding the HArley through the wind farm. If you have never been around the turbines, you would be amazed how big they really are.

[awoke_in_2003]

38. I had a pic like this...

or a pic of mountain top removal in mind.

[Pharaoh]

12. Yep those turbine sure are ugly

[IMG][/IMG]

[Pharaoh]

13. and the pollution they create!

[IMG][/IMG]

[Pharaoh]

14. What would you rather have in your backyard?

[IMG][/IMG]

[SoutherDem]

46. There is an old strip mine near my house

even after the "restoration" it is a barren field. Patchy grass a handful of trees and lots of rocks. I have been told the nutrients are all gone and it is very rocky so very little will grow. I would welcome one of those on that land.

[maddiemom]

17. Great illustration!

Admittedly I wouldn't really care to live very near a wind turbine---But certainly not due to the physical appearance, a definite advantage over a working oil field. From a slight distance they're kind of majestic, AND a very positive statement.

[ErikJ]

31. The 1st time I saw a wind turbine/farm coming over the horizon I was awestruck

[Nihil]

53. I would be too ...

> The 1st time I saw a wind turbine/farm coming over the horizon I was awestruck

... I didn't think the buggers could move!





(Sorry - couldn't resist! )

[JCMach1]

18. Hey, but that's one of the purtier spots in West Texas

[XemaSab]

42. Or one of the uglier spots in California

http://goo.gl/maps/YFVu

(I can't find the exact spot, but it sure looks like the ass end of Kern. Think the area at the end of Se7en when they get the box.)

[Blanks]

19. It is my understanding...

That wind farms are very often prevented by environmental groups; is that not the case?

I don't really like the idea of huge wind farms either. Just because other things are uglier doesn't make them 'good' necessarily.

I'd prefer more small scale windmills, individual or group windmills; matched with pv cells and integrated into urban environments more seamlessly.

I'd like to get away from the idea that everyone is dependent on a huge corporation for all of their energy. Especially now that there are smaller wind units and pv cells are getting to a point where there is a reasonable ROI.

It certainly would be a huge boost to the economy.

[Pharaoh]

22. that one was huge

most of them are more modest, mesmerizing beautiful and quite graceful

[IMG][/IMG]


[IMG][/IMG]

[Bohunk68]

28. You are right about one thing.

It would be a huge boost to the economy because of the expense of PV plus wind. Before I retired, I used to design systems and those systems were only affordable because of the rebates from agencies such as NYSERDA ( New York State Energy Research and Development Agency). Without those almost 50% rebates such systems are out of reach for the overwhelming majority of people. What about the poor? What about renters? And, how about those municipal systems which are not forced by law to purchase your excess power? Because that last statement is how you get the rebates.

[Blanks]

56. How long ago did you retire?

PV decreases in cost all the time.

Where I think we are screwing up as a nation is that we have these retirement accounts that go into 'funds'; it seems to me that if we took this money (that seems to disappear from those funds about every 10 years) and we used it locally in small utility companies that invest in alternative energy; something that people could actually drive around and see how their money is being spent. These small utility companies would have local meetings so that investors could keep an eye on the operation.

It would only work in states where utilities are required to purchase excess power. I'm mystified that more people haven't complained about the ponzi scheme that 'investors' take these funds and overpay themselves and then when the bubble bursts the only people who benefitted were the ones managing the fund.

Of course I don't have all the details worked out, but the ones who play a role in generating at least some of their own energy are going to be the only ones who will be able to afford to retire. IMHO

[GTurck]

55. I so....

agree with you. If I had the income to do it I would have solar but lately I saw a small wind turbine that would fit right on my roof. Actually I have wind powered turbines on my roof for letting the heat out of our attic and they seem to spin almost constantly but I don't know what amount of electricity they could produce.
Great ideas come from necessity.

[Blanks]

57. How much are those small windmills?

I was looking at those a couple of years ago; they seemed to be getting cheaper.

Do you have a link?

[GTurck]

58. Lord...

I wish I did. A friend remembers reading about them years ago and has wondered where to get them too. So many ways to cut pollution and get electricity and yet we cannot do that because of the fossil fuel and electric company lobbies. GRRR!!!

[BumRushDaShow]

20. I remember the first time

I saw those types of pumps in both California and Texas. Made me do a double-take knowing what they were but still trying to digest what they were. And this coming from someone who grew up in a city that had what were once the largest refineries on the east coast, where you can leave the airport area and drive by something out of Blade Runner.

[Auntie Bush]

21. LOL--Frankly I look at windmills as a mesmerizing piece of sculpture

How come I never hear complaints about the disgusting oil derricks? And how come no complaints about the destruction of beautiful Mountain tops and ugly, cloudy, muddy rivers below them?

[Pharaoh]

23. because the corporate media

spews all this shit about wind being ugly! It's a fucking riot so many morons will believe it and repeat the propaganda of big oil............

[eppur_se_muova]

24. No kidding. nt

[a la izquierda]

36. Gah, so ugly!

Long Beach or North Jersey (I've lived near both)?

I love wind farms. I think they're amazing looking. Oil refineries, not so much. Plus they smell.

[Chalco]

25. I wish I could recommend this 1000 times. nt

[Voice for Peace]

26. and

[maddiemom]

34. Exactly!

And don't tell me birds can run into a wind turbine. They can run into a jet engine or your car windshield: hard objectivity; a far better death than being coated with oil.

[SoutherDem]

47. Sad. This should be our national bird.

It would remind the "dig, baby, dig" people of what can and does happen.

[ChazInAz]

29. Something no-one else brought up.

First of all, I think the windmills are beautiful...kinetic sculptures dancing against the sky. I was recently in Illinois and saw a windfarm on the horizon near the town of Paw Paw that was breathtaking. A few days later, between Bloomington and Montecello I was treated to the stench of crude oil for miles until I passed a lone pump jack toiling away at the edge of a cornfield just off the highway. Visually, it was gawdawful: around just one pump, the crop was dead and pounded into the oil-saturated ground. The smell was appalling...for mile around, a single pump had fouled the air with its petroleum reek. Ironically, this was on a stretch of highway where Illinois had "retro-landscaped" the margins of the road back to the original prairie biota. Long, beautiful stretches of primeval grasslands...then an oil well.

[L. Coyote]

30. And, you can't light your tap water on fire! What fun is that?

Good one!

[Pauline89]

32. Spam deleted by NRaleighLiberal (MIR Team)

[freshwest]

33. Had to go there, didn't you? Good one!

[PatrynXX]

39. often hear that one

and how they squeak at night... compared to a whir sound.

(which right now in Iowa is a landfill you normally wouldn't see but alas some nut put something hot in the landfill and anyone will see the fire that'll burn for another month.

[krispos42]

40. Not to mention the toxins from spills

[Bozita]

43. Beauty!

[Honeycombe8]

41. Excellent post. nt

[kurtzapril4]

49. They're BOTH ugly. n/t

[Nihil]

54. With one important difference ...

There is NO WAY to site or operate an oil field in an environmentally-friendly way.

Careful siting of a wind farm will preserve the environment and that more than
cancels out the "ugly" side that is sometimes perceived by critics (though, as can
be seen from many replies on this thread, many find such devices - especially the
more recent ones - to be attractive in their own right).

Note: Careless siting of a wind farm is the thing that causes problems - to birds
and to people - but there is no alternative with an oil field, a gas field or a coal
mine. Bear that in mind when balancing aesthetics against energy demands.