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GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
Thu May 5, 2016, 04:02 PM May 2016

Will an economic crash reduce population levels?

I've long maintained that the main thing that triggers population declines is economic calamity. My evidence for this was what happened to the populations and economies of Ukraine, Belarus and Russia after the collapse of the USSR. Their economies declined drastically, as did their net birth rates, which went negative in each case.

I just took a closer look at the relationship between economic activity and net birth rates. What I found forces me to revisit my reliance on economic collapse as the main force behind population reduction. The economies of the three countries declined an average of 50% between about 1988 and 1996. in the same period their net annual birth rates fell on average from about +0.5% to -0.6%, a drop of just over 1%.

The world's overall net birth rate is currently about 1.1%. The ex-Soviet example suggests that if the world suffered an economic catastrophe that reduced global GDP by 50%, our population might not fall, but would instead only level off.

One factor to consider is that during the collapse of the USSR, the rest of the world kept right on ticking. This might have offered some indirect socioeconomic support to the affected nations, that might have kept their populations from falling as fast or as far as they might have otherwise. It's hard to say how such an effect would play out in the case of a global economic collapse.

It's also worth noting that all three nations have experienced significant economic recoveries since 1998, but their net birth rates have not recovered at all - they are all stuck at about -0.6%.

So while an economic crash of that magnitude would undoubtedly do wonders for the world's CO2 emissions, we shouldn't count on it to reduce our population.

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Will an economic crash reduce population levels? (Original Post) GliderGuider May 2016 OP
Two things come to mind... NeoGreen May 2016 #1
I'd agree with that assessment. GliderGuider May 2016 #2
This is probably a pretty good depicition of the aftermath of the collapse.. mackdaddy May 2016 #4
I think that the economics is only part of the story. mackdaddy May 2016 #3

NeoGreen

(4,031 posts)
1. Two things come to mind...
Thu May 5, 2016, 04:39 PM
May 2016

...duration and food.

If it is truly a global financial decline (e.g. Great Depression) the question can be raised, how do we get out of it in less than a generation (~30 years)? I doubt the global conflicts that will arise will do the trick this time around (i.e. WWIII <> WWII).

Second question, will food still be produced and/or distributed?

In the former Soviet Union example, I have read that the traditional Soviet/Russian kitchen garden played a very large role in keeping many people from starving.

Is there a similar means or societal mindset for maintaining minimal sustenance on a global scale?

I think I could successfully argue that, in the US at the least, there is not.

I think in the event of a global financial decline that, if its duration is >10-years, populations will decrease by more than what was observed in Russia/Belarus/Ukraine and that the rate decline will increase the longer it lasts.

 

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
2. I'd agree with that assessment.
Thu May 5, 2016, 04:47 PM
May 2016

If climate change hits world food supplies at the same time, even small-scale food production would be threatened.

The other question is what happens as law and order, sanitation, water distribution and health care systems break down over a decade or two.

Fuck, I thought I had gotten over imagining Mad Max scenarios. Fort McMurray has put me back in an apocalyptic frame of mind.

mackdaddy

(1,522 posts)
4. This is probably a pretty good depicition of the aftermath of the collapse..
Thu May 5, 2016, 05:23 PM
May 2016

A drama of an interview with 22 "survivors" after a total collapse. Thus the name "22 After". Very disturbing, because it may be too accurate.

Be aware it depicts a very realistic suicide in opening scenes.

mackdaddy

(1,522 posts)
3. I think that the economics is only part of the story.
Thu May 5, 2016, 04:52 PM
May 2016

I think that the US population would have had a much lower growth rate if you factored out the large number of immigrants (documented & undocumented) to this country over the last 30 years.

But I could make a pretty good argument that we have had a mostly slow motion economic collapse at least over the last 18 years just from looking at the performance of my 401k.

Here is a link to a discussion of this. I do not know if these people are OK or not, but seem to make a pretty good case. http://www.susps.org/overview/immigration.html

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