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Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:27 PM

What to do with nuke waste and closed power plants

The waste created from nuke plants generates a lot of heat. It becomes waste mainly because it doesn't generate enough heat to boil water in a relatively small reactor core.

So here is an idea to use all those soon to be closed nuke plants and the spent fuel pools that will be generating heat for 100's of years.....

Build thermal solar plants over the nuke waste plants.

That way the nuke waste would be constantly heating the molten salts. Then the sun would finish off the heat cycle and we'd have electricity too cheap to meter.

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Arrow 14 replies Author Time Post
Reply What to do with nuke waste and closed power plants (Original post)
RobertEarl Mar 2012 OP
Ian David Mar 2012 #1
RobertEarl Mar 2012 #2
TheWraith Mar 2012 #3
RobertEarl Mar 2012 #4
kristopher Mar 2012 #5
OKIsItJustMe Mar 2012 #6
bananas Mar 2012 #9
FogerRox Mar 2012 #7
OKIsItJustMe Mar 2012 #8
FogerRox Mar 2012 #10
OKIsItJustMe Mar 2012 #11
FogerRox Mar 2012 #12
OKIsItJustMe Mar 2012 #13
FogerRox Mar 2012 #14

Response to RobertEarl (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:28 PM

1. It should be buried in the congressional districts of the politicians that voted for the power plant

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Response to Ian David (Reply #1)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:37 PM

2. It's like the Iraqi war

The lies told to the people had them convinced that invading Iraq was a good thing.

The majority of people once upon a time also believed nuke plants were a good thing. We were nearly all duped.

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Response to RobertEarl (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:39 PM

3. No. Actually it becomes waste because the efficiency drops due to accumulation of neutron poisons.

In other words, 97% of the "waste" is still viable fuel, which can be harvested if those rods are reprocessed. That's how they do it in Europe, which is part of the reason they don't really HAVE a nuclear waste problem there. Here, however, it's simply too cheap to stick the stuff in a dry cask and ignore it.

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Response to TheWraith (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:44 PM

4. That's not true

""...they don't really HAVE a nuclear waste problem there.""

Unless you have a very good link proving without a doubt your proclamation, your pronouncement is invalid.

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:50 PM

5. Let's be more proactive than that

Here is a paper accurately describing the option of reprocessing

THE MYTHOLOGY AND MESSY REALITY OF NUCLEAR FUEL REPROCESSING
Arjun Makhijani, Ph.D. April 8, 2010

http://www.ieer.org/reports/reprocessing2010.pdf

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Response to TheWraith (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 01:43 PM

6. Yup! The French have solved the problem of nuclear waste!

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/press/releases/europe-s-secret-nuclear-waste/
Europe’s secret nuclear waste dumping in Russia revealed
Greenpeace activists block the loading of nuclear waste bound for Russia

Press release - December 1, 2005

Since 02.00 hours this morning, 20 Greenpeace activists have occupied loading cranes at the French port of Le Havre to prevent 450 tonnes of radioactive uranium waste being loaded onto the Russian freighter the Kapitan Kuroptchev. The activists are occupying cranes on both the dock side and the ship. The waste comes from the Pierrelatte uranium enrichment plant in the Rhone valley and is scheduled to be transported to Russia.

Greenpeace has launched the protest to expose the thirty year old practice of illegally transporting and dumping nuclear wastes produced in Europe and shipped to Russia. A new report from Greenpeace, “Europe’s Radioactive Secret”, details the illegal nuclear waste trade between Europe’s nuclear industry and the Russian Federation.

“The nuclear power industry has a dirty secret, for decades it has illegally and immorally dumped over 100,000 tonnes of nuclear waste in Russia. This scandalous activity must stop. At every step in the process regulations are being breached and laws broken threatening peoples lives and their environment,” said Shaun Burnie of Greenpeace International.

The nuclear wastes dumped in Russia are of two types: contaminated uranium resulting from reprocessing at the Cogema/Areva facilities at la Hague, Normandy; and depleted uranium (DU) from nuclear fuel enrichment at facilities in France (Eurodif/Areva de Pierrelatte), and the Urenco facilities in Germany (Gronau), the Netherlands (Almelo) and the UK (Capenhurst). These facilities support the day to day operation of 135 nuclear reactors in Europe.

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/Global/international/planet-2/report/2006/6/european-rad-secret.pdf


http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/press/releases/illegal-french-nuclear-waste-d/
Illegal French nuclear waste dump must be removed and decontaminated
Greenpeace files legal challenge against AREVA

Press release - May 29, 2006

Greenpeace activists from Germany, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Belgium, Japan and France entered the Centre Stockage de la Manche (CSM) nuclear dumpsite at La Hague in Normandy today to demand the removal and decontamination of the dumpsite. At 9.30am this morning, ten activists placed their countries' flags on top of the dumpsite and a further four activists with banners declaring "France: Nuclear Waste Dump climbed onto the roof of the visitors' centre.

The activists represent the principal clients of French state reprocessing company AREVA that have disposed of nuclear waste at the CSM (1). An estimated 140,000 containers of nuclear waste disposed at the La Hague dump came from foreign nuclear utilities in Europe and Japan. Under French law, it is illegal to dispose of foreign waste in France. The largest amount of waste at the site was produced by Electricite de France (EDF). Greenpeace is demanding that the 1.4 million containers of waste in the CSM dumpsite be removed and repackaged.

In a further challenge against illegal waste disposal in France, Greenpeace today is to file legal papers against the reprocessing company AREVA in relation to Dutch nuclear waste produced at the La Hague plant. In February this year, Greenpeace obtained an injunction against AREVA that forced the disclosure of its reprocessing contract with the Dutch utility EPZ (2).

Last week, Greenpeace released a study on the radioactive contamination of the underground water and rivers around the CSM Normandy plant (3). The water is used by farmers for their dairy cattle and on their fields. A former senior engineer at the facility has stated that in addition to tritium, other radio-nuclides in the dump, including plutonium, will leak out and given the state of the waste in the dump, it should now be removed.

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/Global/international/planet-2/report/2006/6/nuclear-waste-management-the.pdf
http://www.greenpeace.org/international/Global/international/planet-2/report/2006/6/nuclear-waste-crisis-france.pdf

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Response to TheWraith (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 07:41 PM

9. No, reprocessing won't do that.

You have to reprocess about 7 spent fuel rods to get a new fuel rod, and it's so contaminated with poisons it can't be reprocessed again.

There's only two uses for reprocessing: nuclear weapons and breeder reactors. And breeders have so many technical problems it's unlikely they'll ever be viable.

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Response to RobertEarl (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 05:44 PM

7. IF Polywell research pans out, theory says

fission waste can be burned in a Polywell fusion reactor.

Otherwise a lot of launch capacity would be needed to get it into the Sun.

SO it'll sit, and if so, thats a great idea


Build thermal solar plants over the nuke waste plants.

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Response to FogerRox (Reply #7)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 05:53 PM

8. What’s that latest on Polywell?

Last I knew there was an almost complete information blackout, imposed by the Navy.

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Response to OKIsItJustMe (Reply #8)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 05:19 PM

10. Publication black out is still in force but

Dr Park has made some comments.

WB-8 is twice the size of WB-7, 8 times the field strength .

WB-8 has been run over 500 times and is using LN2 cooling to reduce resistance of copper wire in coils.

Better electron confinement then scaling would anticipate. Fusion rates confirm scaling.

Currently they are building I think stronger electron guns, in relation to an anomaly. since electron confinement is better than anticipated, this may be in relation to placement of e-guns. E-guns only have to be strong enough to inject electrons to the inside of the magnetic wiffleball. SO e-gun placement is related to e-gun strength. They may have found they want to pull back e-guns, and thusly want to use a stronger e-gun.

It is anticipated that once this e-gun issue is resolved they will go for proton boron 11 fuel runs. This is the big deal, proof of P-B11 fusion should make some waves even with the Tokamak crowd.

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Response to FogerRox (Reply #10)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 05:58 PM

11. Holy cow!

I didn’t think they’d shoot for Boron 11 so soon!

(I’m stunned!)

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Response to OKIsItJustMe (Reply #11)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 04:01 PM

12. contractually WB-8 is a DD machine.

Wb-8.1 is to be a P-B11 machine. Currently the contract is in the WB-9 phase.

About 3-4 yrs ago, one of my polywell internet pals put together a open source engineering proposal, double the size of WB-7 (30cm radius to 60cm), Ln2 cooling & Bitter magnets(MIT), hes a nuke engineer- retired so I respect his skills. He thought his design could reach the P-B11 resonance peak of 550Kev. It appears that EMC2 also saw the same possibility.

But the P-b11 race is a 3 way, EMC2, Tri Alpha and Focus Fusion are all working on P-b11.

Best case Polywell will make P-b11 runs late this year. Proof of P-b11 fusion will turn the ITER- Tokamak guys on their rear ends.

Yeah this is real exciting...

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Response to FogerRox (Reply #12)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 04:23 PM

13. “Best case Polywell will make P-b11 runs late this year.”

Talk about a big payout for a small investment!

I thought that was still off in the foggy, “some day, we hope to,” land.

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Response to OKIsItJustMe (Reply #13)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 06:02 PM

14. Like I said WB-8 is built and ran DD 500+ times.

Oversimplification: At the end of the day all they have to do is build and install the P-B11 fuel system, and presto- WB-8.1.

Well that someday foggy land might allow me to see a fusion powered space ship before I die. Tom Ligon told me Bussard thought Mars in 38 days and Titan in 76 days.

AS a 10 yr old kid who watched Apollo 8 orbit the Moon with binoculars, that Christmas eve.... Mars in 38 days is the shiznit.

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