Heretical question: Why do public school teachers need tenure?

[RandySF]

I know this question will generate a lot of heat, but I hope some light as well. Public school teachers are mostly heroes, but there are sure to be some bad ones. So why do we grant tenure?

[texshelters]

1. Reason

to prevent question such as this that question the value of teachers.

They need tenure to prevent abuses by demagogues like Michelle Rhee and John Hupenthal.

They need tenture to defend against over zealous principals that use political disagreements as a reason to fire teachers.

By the way, there is a process to fire even teachers with tenure, and removing tenure is a fix to a problem that doesn't exist.

Peace,
Tex Shelters

[d_r]

2. protection against bad administrators

protection from cronyism
protection from wingnuts in the community

[femmocrat]

3. Sigh..... here we go again....

Tenure does not protect bad teachers. It is merely a guarantee of "due process," so that experienced teachers cannot be fired for political reasons or because they earn "too much".

Without tenure, schools would be full of first-year (uncertified) teachers. The "veterans" would be put out to pasture after 2 years. Would you want your kids to attend a school staffed by all first- or second-year teachers?

[RandySF]

4. No

I was asking a question. I'm new to the world of education and all I ever hear is Michelle Rhee's side of the story.

[femmocrat]

5. You have come to the right place, RandySF.

For starters, please read some of the comments in this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1124705

The DU Education Forum is very informative and enlightening. Some of the posters here are very active in the field and well-informed on the latest issues.

P.S. Michelle Rhee is evil.

[tibbiit]

8. I agree with all

Of these posts for all of the above reasons. Schools are localized power structures, all the human nature rules apply. This is not necessarily a bad thing at all, it is just how it is. Corporations, businesses, religions etc, everything... has humans interacting with each other. The regular people need protection from the dicks.


tib

[erinlough]

11. What femmocrat said

I must say that bad teachers can and have been fired at my school, and with the Union's help!

[mike_c]

6. historically, to protect academic freedom....

Doing so comes in many forms, but ultimately it's to protect teachers from being fired because of what they teach. The irony is that K-12 administrations have effectively done an end run around academic freedom by seizing control of the curriculum, then dictating what teachers will teach. Still, tenure protects them from crappy administrators, and administrative crappiness is rampant, all the way up to local and state school boards and other administrative bodies, many of which are staffed by people who have zero teaching experience, and often have agendas in direct conflict with good education.

As others have pointed out, tenured teachers can still be fired for cause and they can still be laid off. They're simply guaranteed due process if they have tenure.

[no_hypocrisy]

7. In a nutshell, to prevent public school teachers from being arbitrarily fired.

Tenure is part of collective bargaining. Without a guarantee of due process, a teacher can be fired for any number of reasons. It won't be called firing but rather, that teacher won't be hired for, say, another two-year term.

Name any reason: Students get together and decide on a campaign to remove a teacher who gives low grades and too much homework; a parent decides s/he doesn't like that teacher (something personal, teacher teaches evolution and parents wants "intelligent design" in the curriculum), principal wants that teacher to raise a grade for a particular student; teacher assigns a controversial book like "Catcher In The Rye".

And teaching is a career, not a job. Where is a teacher supposed to go to work after "not being rehired"? Work is not exactly available everywhere. A teacher and his/her spouse may have settled in a community and don't want to move. They certainly can't move and buy/sell homes every two years.

Tenure is to keep teachers in their communities.

[saras]

9. There's a solid procedure to remove incompetent or criminal ones.

The assumption is that removal for any other reason is political in nature, which it usually is. It could be administrators, or it could be that tenure gives admins more power to fight off a temporarily enraged public. Just because the political issues aren't national in scope, doesn't mean they aren't powerfully emotional and hard fought. Try being the one gay-friendly teacher in a homophobic school in a homophobic community.

[roody]

10. Tenure in the public schools is the right

to due process.

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. Tenure is protection from the politics of education

Remember that hostile father whose son was in your 4th grade class 5 years ago? He just got elected to the school board. Tenure keeps him from firing you.

[MichiganVote]

14. Yup. And the parent whose kid is not certified for SPED cuz' they lack effort-ditto

And the kid who is absent from class too much, sent from class for disruptive behaviors, comes in smelling of pot and sent to the office, fails a class cuz', despite ability, they refuse to work, not to mention the boy or girl who cheats, and the son or daughter of the Superintendent who fails the final, and the family who objects to the Mark Twain literature and its use of the vernacular DESPITE being on the approaved curriculum, naturally there are the one's who didn't make the first string in football or were restricted from sports b/c of grades....or they just flat ass out don't like you with no good reason other than they have niece or a nephew who can take the job you have.

It happens. And it all happens all the time.

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. And who runs for school board?

Pissed off parents. That's who.

[MichiganVote]

17. Yup. Its not like the Ph.D's are standing in line to do it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. In all fairness, they aren't ALL pissed off parents

Some are pissed off community members.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

13. They don't, but they should get standard civil service protections

What they call tenure in public schools is an abuse of the term. However it is so universally used that those of us purists don't make a big deal out of it much any more.

Teachers are white collar civil servants. Civil servants have decent protection against unfair bosses, political pressure etc. There is no reason teachers should be treated any differently.

So while I think tenure is the incorrect term, civil service protections are basic and should be in place.

[mbperrin]

16. There is no tenure for teachers in Texas.

One year contracts. If non-renewed, that is the end of it.

Like today, every special ed teacher in our district of 28,000 students was ordered onto a growth plan by the Chief of Staff. None have been observed, but since the Texas Education Agency listed deficiencies in the department, he said that meant that every single teacher of special ed was unacceptable and must meet their growth plan goals by mid-May or be non-renewed. This is true for teachers with 30 years right down to brand new. The Chief is 32 years old, with 3 years in a junior high English classroom, 2 years as a principal in one town, 1 year as a bilingual director in another town, 2 years as a high school principal in yet another town, to arrive here two years ago to be named Chief of Staff. Can't be an Assistant Superintendent because he no superintendent certification and apparently has failed the exam twice in two years.

So this uncertified administrator just put 70+ teachers in jeopardy on a whim.

This is what no tenure at all looks like.