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Wed Mar 14, 2012, 07:09 PM

I get so tired of people gritching that "teachers get all summer off" We get paid for 186 days

what do they NOT understand about this? We went to college incurred debt and most of the time enjoy what we do, but I get so tired of "my tax dollars pay for your summer vacation" crap. I also work way more than 186 days plus continuing education classes that I pay for.

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Reply I get so tired of people gritching that "teachers get all summer off" We get paid for 186 days (Original post)
demtenjeep Mar 2012 OP
teddy51 Mar 2012 #1
NYC_SKP Mar 2012 #2
demtenjeep Mar 2012 #32
NYC_SKP Mar 2012 #33
demtenjeep Mar 2012 #34
MichiganVote Mar 2012 #3
NYC_SKP Mar 2012 #6
michaz Mar 2012 #4
gopiscrap Mar 2012 #5
teddy51 Mar 2012 #7
gopiscrap Mar 2012 #39
dana_b Mar 2012 #8
freshwest Mar 2012 #9
Mopar151 Mar 2012 #10
teddy51 Mar 2012 #12
liberal N proud Mar 2012 #11
teddy51 Mar 2012 #13
southernyankeebelle Mar 2012 #14
abelenkpe Mar 2012 #15
progressoid Mar 2012 #16
Kennah Mar 2012 #17
demtenjeep Mar 2012 #23
jerseyjack Mar 2012 #18
MJJP21 Mar 2012 #19
demtenjeep Mar 2012 #20
kcass1954 Mar 2012 #25
Hissyspit Mar 2012 #26
knitter4democracy Mar 2012 #35
sulphurdunn Mar 2012 #40
mbperrin Mar 2012 #55
Goblinmonger Mar 2012 #57
Honeycombe8 Mar 2012 #21
demtenjeep Mar 2012 #22
emilyg Mar 2012 #29
Honeycombe8 Mar 2012 #48
Goblinmonger Mar 2012 #58
Starry Messenger Mar 2012 #24
emilyg Mar 2012 #28
Starry Messenger Mar 2012 #30
sulphurdunn Mar 2012 #43
Honeycombe8 Mar 2012 #49
Starry Messenger Mar 2012 #53
NYC_SKP Mar 2012 #27
demtenjeep Mar 2012 #31
Honeycombe8 Mar 2012 #50
proud2BlibKansan Mar 2012 #56
mike_c Mar 2012 #66
knitter4democracy Mar 2012 #36
mike_c Mar 2012 #41
Honeycombe8 Mar 2012 #51
FBaggins Mar 2012 #54
mike_c Mar 2012 #60
knitter4democracy Mar 2012 #67
eppur_se_muova Mar 2012 #37
Reader Rabbit Mar 2012 #38
Canuckistanian Mar 2012 #42
sulphurdunn Mar 2012 #44
montanto Mar 2012 #45
demtenjeep Mar 2012 #46
montanto Mar 2012 #61
proud2BlibKansan Mar 2012 #62
NYC_SKP Mar 2012 #47
Honeycombe8 Mar 2012 #52
Goblinmonger Mar 2012 #59
mbperrin Mar 2012 #63
demtenjeep Mar 2012 #64
NYC_SKP Mar 2012 #65

Response to demtenjeep (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 07:12 PM

1. You have my total admiration and support. Teachers by and large do a remarkable job and certainly

 

put in way more hours than they get paid for. It's about time that they were treated with the respect that they used to have in society IMO.

And to add on edit: Your certainly doing a job that I would not want to do.

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Response to demtenjeep (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 07:13 PM

2. K/R They also don't know that we can't deduct all the supplies we buy, or realize...

...how many hours we spend on weekends and evenings.

Most don't realize that many teachers give up their own time for professional development conferences, including summers and weekends, and usually travel and meals and lodging are NOT COVERED!

Then here, about this time of year, teachers get their annual pink slips...

All summer off my ass.



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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #2)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 10:28 PM

32. I tend to do a lot of hands on projects for end of unit wrap ups

over the course of the year I buy a LOT Of paper, card stock, colored pencils, glue, tape, twine, posterboard, ribbon, and a whole host of other things. I do that because I feel that my students will retain the information a LOT more than just unit tests. It also allows the kids to excel in their natural "multiple intelligence" area. Some write, some are artists, some are organizing phenoms and some speak very well. End of unit projects allows each student to shine in their area.


I also provide pencils, pens and notebook paper just because. I would rather a student have what they need than to fight a pencil battle in class.

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Response to demtenjeep (Reply #32)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 10:41 PM

33. A lot of teachers also bring fruit and snacks and food, secretively...

...for kids who they know aren't getting proper nutrition.

I know your type... you care!

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #33)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 10:43 PM

34. yea, I always have a stash of something to snack on

and ALWAYS have jolly ranchers. Even the principal comes to me for his jolly rancher fix.

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Response to demtenjeep (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 07:15 PM

3. Note to public: Teachers d/not get paid tax dollars f/the periods of time school is not in session.

Ditto for any other public worker whose job skills are not being utilized. Think seasonal U.S. park workers.

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Response to MichiganVote (Reply #3)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 07:23 PM

6. Exactly, thank you!

Typically where we are, the pay is monthly not for the summer months.

We are given the option, which many select, to have that pay spread over twelve pay periods.

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Response to demtenjeep (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 07:16 PM

4. My husband was a teacher for 32 years. If they ever paid him for his

hours of work at night correcting tests, writing tests, reading reports, etc. He would have made a lot more. So when people think they work only 7 hours a day, they are crazy! Who do they think does all this work? A teacher can't do it during the day while they are teaching and giving extra help to students.

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Response to demtenjeep (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 07:20 PM

5. My wife is a teacher and what I have found to shut them up is this,

when they spout that shit, I say:

OK you want your summers off? Then get off of your lazy ass and get an ed degree, or are you too fucking stupid to do that?

When I've said that to some one, nobody has ever said that shit to me again!!!

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Response to gopiscrap (Reply #5)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 07:25 PM

7. Many don't even get there summers off (I know this is a matter of choice) but many go back to school

 

during the summer months to improve there credentials.

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Response to teddy51 (Reply #7)

Thu Mar 15, 2012, 10:17 AM

39. My wife has taken 6 summers off in 31 years of teaching

two summers when each of our children were born and one when we went to Europe to see where I grew up and meet relatives and one when I ran for US Congress. Other than she has either been in classes or teaching summer school to help her students get ready for the next school year.

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Response to demtenjeep (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 07:25 PM

8. teachers perform one of the if not THE

most essential of jobs - educating our kids. Many of us support and admire all that you do.

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Response to demtenjeep (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 07:29 PM

9. Yes, when you average it out, it's less than other jobs. And teachers...

Are often called in to do things at the school during the summer, as well. It's not that full three months off rumor.

Most I know really never stop working with their communities and students all year long, or even after they've retired. It's not like they are living the lifestyles of the rich and famous.

It's heartbreaking to see the way the corporations have bought the media to smear teachers for their sponsors, with no thought as to what effect the destruction of public educations is having. Not just on the teachers, but the students as well.

Shameful.

BTW, I am not a teacher or in any way profited by the schools except the life long benefit from having attended schools and as a parent. The teachers have been lifesavers for many of us.

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Response to demtenjeep (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 07:37 PM

10. These people must not have made it past 3rd grade

Most folks work 40 hr./week, 50 weeks/yr. 40 x 50 = 2000 hr/yr

Teachers I know work about 50 hr./week, 40 weeks/yr. 50 x 40 = 2000 hr. yr

When I went to school, 40 x 50 = 50 x 40 - new math, old math, abacus or digital algorithim.

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Response to Mopar151 (Reply #10)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 07:50 PM

12. Except that teachers don't even get paid for there 2000 hours per year. They don't get

 

paid for there summers off, so that may be a misconception by some.

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Response to demtenjeep (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 07:49 PM

11. The argument I have heard to that one is...

Teachers can go out and get a job for the summer.

I have actually heard that used.

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #11)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 07:52 PM

13. Probably many actually do get an extra job in the summer to augment there income's. n/t

 

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Response to demtenjeep (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 08:12 PM

14. Don't listen to the ignorance. I know my brother use to be a teacher until he retired.

 

He said they spread his salary for the whole year. I wouldn't have my daughter be a teacher today. They aren't appreciated. I use to tell young ladies to think about being a teacher. That way they can spend time with their children in the summer. What is wrong with that. The children get off and the teachers need to get off also. If a person is jealous about a teacher getting off they can go to college and get a degree. No one is stopping them to go. I don't understand the way people thing. They don'e seem to mind that 1% of millionaire make more than the 99% at the bottom yet people don't want to see working people get a damn break because they don't get it. Well shit on them.

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Response to demtenjeep (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 08:18 PM

15. Sorry you have to put up that stuff

I respect anyone who teaches. It's a difficult job that many pour their heart into. My SIL is a teacher and I see her spending her money on school supplies, her spare time on lesson plans, her students are her number one focus and she loves every one of them. For all that she is not paid well enough to afford to buy a home and lives a modest life.

If it were up to me teachers would be paid a lot more.

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Response to demtenjeep (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 08:54 PM

16. You might like this.

I just saw it this morning.

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Response to demtenjeep (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 09:01 PM

17. If teachers were paid to babysit, they'd be living large

Couple of threads floated around here some time back in which someone had assessed how much a teacher would make if they were paid to babysit at just $3 an hour per kid. IIRC, it was about $150K a year for an 8 hour workday with a class of 30 kids for 9 months of the year.

They get paid a fraction of that $150K a year, they work more than just 8 hours a day, and oh by the way they educate our kids.

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Response to Kennah (Reply #17)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 09:30 PM

23. this one?

Teachers’ hefty salaries are driving up taxes, and they only work 9 or 10 months a year. It’s time we put things in perspective and pay them for what they do – babysit. We can get that for less than minimum wage.

That’s right. Let’s give them $3 an hour and only the hours they worked; not any of that silly planning time, or any time they spend before or after school. That would be $19.50 a day (7:45 to 3:00 PM with 45 min. off for lunch and plan– that equals 6 1/2 hours).

Each parent should pay $19.50 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children. Now how many students do they teach in a day…maybe 30? So that’s $19.50 x 30 = $585.00 a day.

However, remember they only work 180 days a year. I am not going to pay them for any vacations.

LET’S SEE…That’s $585 X 180= $105,300 per year. (Hold on. My calculator needs new batteries.)

What about those special education teachers and the ones with master’s degrees? Well, we could pay them minimum wage ($7.75), and just to be fair, round it off to $8.00 an hour. That would be $8 X 6 1/2 hours X 30 children X 180 days = $280,800 per year.

Wait a minute — there’s something wrong here. There sure is.

The average teacher’s salary (nationwide) is $50,000. $50,000/180 days = $277.77/per day/30 students=$9.25/6.5 hours = $1.42 per hour per student– a very inexpensive baby-sitter and they even EDUCATE your kids!)

WHAT A DEAL!

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Response to demtenjeep (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 09:12 PM

18. It's simple. You don't want teachers to have summers off,

 

pay 'em more to work 6 extra weeks.

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Response to demtenjeep (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 09:15 PM

19. Sorry

After reading most of the replies it looks like this post is stacked with teachers responding. First off I do think it can be a difficult job and yes you do spend some time in the evening. That being said I think those that do are in a small minority. As for not being paid for the summer what teachers earn in their 186 days is usually far more than what most people earn in their locale by a wide margin and not counting benefits. As for going to school to make themselves more valuable give me a break. Most do so because gaining more credits gives them a raise in salary. The truth is that the vast majority of what is taught is from books from the shelf with the tests and answers already provided. In other words the students are getting a canned curriculum. The testing scores across the entire country are dismal so either all that dedication is for naught or it isn't being done. Locally we know of a husband and wife team both teachers that managed to do a sabatical and double down on salaries. SWEET!! Teachers also seldom spend all their time teaching and are often in the teachers lounge, and lets not forget once tenure is achieved (usually after three years) you can't be fired unless you pull a gun or knife.

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Response to MJJP21 (Reply #19)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 09:21 PM

20. what a load of bullshit

it is obvious you know nothing about teaching so before you come up with all these "ideas" come spend some time in teacher's shoes.

Teacher's lounge? Who would be in the classroom if we spent it in the lounge?


raise in salary? We have been in a freeze since 2004

Curriculum provided? Really? wow, show me where!


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Response to MJJP21 (Reply #19)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 09:53 PM

25. What a bunch of crap.

For the record, I'm not a teacher. Never have been - never wanted to be.

However, I went to school, have 2 kids who went to school - and one of them is still in high school - and have friends who are teachers.

http://www.teacherportal.com/district/florida/broward-county-school-district

Starting salary in my county $33427 - I make a little more than that with no degree required. I show up at 8:30 and go home at 5:00. I get a lunch break every day - a half hour minimum. If I work more than 40 hours in a week, I get paid overtime. I don't take work home with me. If I or my co-workers do not have the supplies that we need to do our jobs, I don't have to purchase said supplies out of my own pocket. When I am not at work, I don't have to spend my own time and money for continuing education that is required for me to keep my job. When there is training required for my job, my employer pays for it and trains me on the clock. If they send me or a co-worker to another facility for work or training, they provide the vehicle and gas.

I'm not doing one of the most important jobs in the world. But teachers are, and I'm tired of them getting shit on.

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Response to MJJP21 (Reply #19)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 09:55 PM

26. Um... no.

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Response to MJJP21 (Reply #19)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 10:49 PM

35. That's not how it is these days.

1. Those extra classes are required for us to stay certified, keep our jobs. They don't get us pay raises. We're required to get a master's after so many years (usually have to start on it after five years) just to keep teaching in most states.

2. What teacher's lounge? Not all schools have them, you know. We have one in the school I'm in now, but most of us don't have a key to it, and the door's kept locked. I wish I did have a key--the good Coke machine is in there.

3. Sabbaticals aren't in most district contracts these days. I haven't seen a teacher take one since I was in middle school 25 years ago, and I come from a teaching family and am a teacher myself.

4. I teach from 7:30am to 3:30pm and get a half hour lunch. There are 8 classes in a day, and I have 7 preps (different classes I have to teach), and the average teacher in my school has 6 preps, over the contract amount but it was either take that or get fired. I get a whole half hour to sit down and eat, but the rest of the day I'm either teaching or grading or calling parents or getting called into a meeting, etc. As a substitute who works for another company, I'm not supposed to stay past 3:30, but I do because the kids need me to for extra help, etc. That's unpaid time that I'm expected to put in, and I do. I've been asked to work for free before, and I have (even though it's illegal)--every teacher has. We all put in unpaid time, do stuff we're told we'll get paid for and then aren't, and work for free when told to.

5. Tenure only means that they have to have a reason to fire you. That's it. It means you can't be an at-will employee. I've seen tenured teachers fired, but honestly, the reason why so many aren't is because the principals don't have time for the paperwork or just don't want to deal with it.

6. I make $14K a year with no benefits, and that's if I sub every day. That's about half of what the teachers in my area make as a starting salary, and with the wage freezes, starting teachers don't get a raise here. Five years later, and they're still not making over $30K a year. Wow--that's such a high salary for a college degree with required college classes and higher degrees.

Seriously, get into your area school and observe. Ask questions. If you're basing all this off of when you were in school last, trust me, things have changed.

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Response to MJJP21 (Reply #19)

Thu Mar 15, 2012, 11:12 AM

40. Since teaching is such a soft touch,

why isn't everybody cashing in on the easy money and great benefits? Why aren't you?

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Response to MJJP21 (Reply #19)

Fri Mar 16, 2012, 11:59 AM

55. There is no tenure for teachers in Texas.

All one-year contracts only.

I teach from 6:45 am to 3:15 daily with a 45 minute lunch and a 45 minute planning period.

I teach 6 classes - this year, 5 sections of US Government, and 1 of Economics.

I have 187 total students, 176 of whom are identified at risk academically due to 1-6 factors, including homelessness, poverty, special ed status, criminal record, and so on.

I have a double Bachelor's degree in English and Economics, and I have a Master's degree in adult and distance education.

98% of my US history students last year passed the state exit-level Social Studies test. 1 was absent, and 1 missed by one question.

I have worked 3 decades stomping out ignorance, but when I see posts like yours, I know my life is somewhat in vain. Please simply don't speak about things you know nothing about - it exposes just who and what you are, which is someone foreclosed and incapable of further growth.

WHY do I teach? Because I live in the same neighborhood as the students I teach, and I see them and their families all the time, as well as having THEIR kids in my classroom. Never once in all that time has any former student greeted me in any way other than with a smile and with pleasure on their face. The $50,000 a year? I make multiples of that in the rental property business.

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Response to MJJP21 (Reply #19)

Fri Mar 16, 2012, 12:22 PM

57. What everybody above me said, plus...

EVEN IF I get paid more than the average worker in my area (which I don't believe is true and many studies support me), I have a Master's degree in communication. What is the education level of the average worker? I think I have more education. And I could make a lot more money doing consulting with my comm degree, but I really like what I do and don't want to quit. Teachers are clearly underpaid for the education level.

And pay attention to what is going on around you. That lovely tenure you talk about incorrectly either doesn't/hasn't existed in most states or is being taken away by Tea Party legislatures.

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Response to demtenjeep (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 09:23 PM

21. I regard teachers highly. Very. But face it: you get the summer off, paid.

That's a fact. Don't try to hide it. Admit it and go forward.

Yes, yu work long hours, you incurred debt, you have CLE, etc. But what you don't understand is that many other workers have done and do the same thing, without having the summer off.

In my mind, that's okay. It makes it okay for your pay not to be equal to something else that you may have gone into, where you work a full year.

You have the opportunity to work for extra money in the summer and supplement your income, or take off and get your house in order, go on a vacation, spend time iwth your children, whatever. The things that most other workers don't have the opportunity to do.

No one hates you for it, that I'm aware of. But don't try to make it seem like you don't get paid summers off. Because you do.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #21)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 09:29 PM

22. again, we get paid for 186 days

no we don't get paid summers off. Last time I looked, there were 365 days in a year. So, we get paid for 186 days that is far less than 365.

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Response to demtenjeep (Reply #22)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 10:15 PM

29. UFT.org

 

How do I get paid during the summer?
Pedagogues receive 24 semi-monthly checks — 20 for your service from September to June and four for July and August. To be eligible for full vacation pay, you need to have worked the entire school year. If you worked less than a full school year, your vacation pay will be pro-rated.

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How useful is this Q&A?

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Response to demtenjeep (Reply #22)

Thu Mar 15, 2012, 09:02 PM

48. That's just how they divide up the checks. Depends on the way you look at it:

Either you get paid a whole bucket of $ for a part-time job, or you get paid average for a full-time job that gives you a several month vacation.

Either way, it's a good deal. And good for you! You deserve it.

I am educated, have to do CLE, have to work very long hours sometimes (I qualify for O.T.), including all night long w/o sleep and then having to work the next day (that only happens a few times a year). I am basically on call and not free to do a lot of things after hours that others do. My house is always a mess, I struggle to do hte grocery shopping and house repairs.

BUT, I get paid more than a teacher (except a professor at university level).

If my employer wanted, they could give me five big checks a year, or they can give me 24 or 26. Doesn't matter. I get paid a certain amount for a full-time job. I don't get several months off to chill, de-stress, go on a vacation, do spring cleaning, etc.

You have a full time job. You get several months off a year. That's great. That's why a lot of people become teachers in the first place, particularly mothers. I wanted to be a teacher at one time; but then I found out what they got paid, so I went into something else. My sister is a teacher. It's a great job.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #48)

Fri Mar 16, 2012, 12:26 PM

58. A whole bucket of money?

Really. Do tell. Compare the "bucket" of money that teachers make to those with similar educations in the private sector. I live in Wisconsin and when the union busting was going down, several studies made it clear that per hour, teachers make less than the equivalent degree-holders in the private sector. But a good margin.

I have a full-time job (plus--more like 50-60 hours a week) for 10 months of the year. I get paid for those 10 months. That's it.

And you do realize you contradict yourself at the end, right?
I wanted to be a teacher at one time; but then I found out what they got paid, so I went into something else.

certainly seems to contradict
Either you get paid a whole bucket of $ for a part-time job, or you get paid average for a full-time job that gives you a several month vacation.

Either way, it's a good deal.

But not enough of a good deal to convince you.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #21)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 09:36 PM

24. No teacher gets summer off, paid.

That's an absurd assertion.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #24)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 10:14 PM

28. From UFT.org

 

How do I get paid during the summer?
Pedagogues receive 24 semi-monthly checks — 20 for your service from September to June and four for July and August. To be eligible for full vacation pay, you need to have worked the entire school year. If you worked less than a full school year, your vacation pay will be pro-rated.

View more Q&As for Salary >
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Response to emilyg (Reply #28)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 10:20 PM

30. That's having your checks pro-rated.

It's still pay only for time contracted to work during the school year. It's not free money for the summer off.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #30)


Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #30)

Thu Mar 15, 2012, 09:09 PM

49. Sure it is. Summer is VACATION. Are teachers fired every year?

If not, then the summer time off is VACATION, included in a teacher's annual salary. Doesn't matter how they divide up the ANNUAL salary and when the checks are given to the teacher.

Vacation time is not compensable, so if I quit, I don't get paid for my vacation time. But I am paid for it...not directly.. But I'm paid an annual salary, which includes those days that I don't work.

A teacher's summer vacation is vacation, just like any other worker's vacation. Except it's really looooooong.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #49)

Thu Mar 15, 2012, 11:04 PM

53. That is very silly. Vacation time for a worker is paid time off.

Is your every weekend a mini-vacay when you aren't working? We are paid for the time we work, which is 10 months. We can either save it and hope we don't go short, or spread it over 12 months. Some teachers are RIF'd every year and get laid off. We aren't PAID for vacation. We are paid for the time we worked.

But I can see that you are invested in this idea that we are spoiled brats with long PAID vacations, so I'm really done talking about this to you.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #21)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 10:06 PM

27. You need to talk to an actual teacher, or a seasonal worker in a different field.

Teachers can often request that their school's business department distribute their pay over 12 months but that is NOT being paid for not working anymore than a crabber who distributes their pay over 12 months is paid for not fishing.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #27)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 10:24 PM

31. exactly right. I get paid 12 months for 186 days.

I chose to have my pay equally distributed over the course of the year. Yes, I get a check in the summer but it is for what I do in those 186 days.


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Response to demtenjeep (Reply #31)

Thu Mar 15, 2012, 09:13 PM

50. That's like saying I'm not paid for my 4 weeks' vacation.

Your summer is your vacation, just like everyone else's. Your salary is your annual salary, just like everyone else's. Choosing to say your salary doesn't include your vacation, is like me saying my salary doesn't include my vacation.

The test being, I guess....are you an independent contractor, so that you are let go at the end of every school year, and must re-contract for the next year and compete with other teachers? And possibly not re-hired? If that's the case, then you really are not "on vacation" during the summer. You are unemployed. If you have your job waiting for you every year, then summer is vacation for you. Just like my vacation is.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #50)

Fri Mar 16, 2012, 12:20 PM

56. Do you have to go to school during your 4 weeks' vacation?

And pay for it yourself?

Do you have to find another job during that 4 week vacation so you can pay your bills?

If so, then you can say it's the same thing. If not, it's not.

I don't know how many times you need to be told but I'll try one more time --TEACHERS DON'T GET SUMMERS OFF. It's not a vacation.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #50)

Mon Mar 19, 2012, 09:33 PM

66. so you actually DO get paid for not working yet you criticize teachers who actually DON'T....

Every dime I bring home is EARNED, i.e. paid at some agreed to rate in exchange for my time and labor. I don't accrue any vacation time at all-- I don't know anyone who teaches a standard academic year who does, frankly-- so the pay we receive during summer is deferred pay from the school year, that is, money that we earned while working, but which our employers keep until summer.

You seem to think that any time spent not working is VACATION. You're incorrect. Vacation is time when your employer is paying you for not working. No teacher that I know of enjoys that benefit. None.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #21)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 10:53 PM

36. If I don't work, I don't get paid.

Some of us are contract workers, substitutes who get bounced from one long-term gig to the next always hoping to get a "real" teaching job. I was too ill to work today and stayed home--no $85 for me today.

When I taught in the Catholic schools, we weren't paid over the summer and were told just to put some of each check into a savings account and deal with it. Of course, we were paid less than $20K a year, so it wasn't exactly easy to set that money aside.

Every contract I've seen shows clearly that we're only paid for the school year and that they spread that out over the entire year. We're not paid for time we don't work.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #21)

Thu Mar 15, 2012, 12:13 PM

41. no, teachers get summer off UNPAID....

Many choose to have their pay for the portion of the year they do work spread out over 12 months so that there's no gap in paychecks during summer, but they are not being paid for that time when school is closed-- if they are receiving paychecks, they're getting deferred pay from the school year. My salary is distributed the same way (I'm a university prof), i.e. I have a nine month contract so I work 3/4 year and that's all I get paid for. During the months "off," I do research, prep for classes, rebuild the teaching collections (I'm a biologist), etc-- all on my own dime. I receive paychecks during summer, but I'm NOT being paid for time off. Further, I do not accrue any vacation time (or pay). Zero.

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Response to mike_c (Reply #41)

Thu Mar 15, 2012, 09:47 PM

51. So you get fired every year and have to re-apply, so that you're unemployed every summer?

If not, then summer is vacation for you.

I technically may not be paid for my vacation, either. It's given to me, but my employer can rescind that and keep my salary at the same level, since technically I'm not "paid" for my vacation. But it was a deal when I was hired: I get an annual salary, and I am allowed certain federal holidays off and several weeks of "vacation." It's part of my employment, and I am paid an annual salary for the whole deal...which includes vacation. It's the same thing with teachers.

So if teachers don't get a "vacation" in the summer, then I don't get a vacation, either. It's the same, except teachers' vacation must be at the same time every year, and is longer than it is for other workers.

I am actually encouraged not to take all my vacation time. If I don't, they'll recompense me PART of the time I don't take. Does that mean I wasn't paid for it to begin with? Not at all. It's a benefit that came with my job. Just like summer vacation is a benefit for teachers. Except for substitute teachers or maybe some teachers under special contracts, where they really DON'T get paid except for the actual days/hours they work. And they don't have a guaranteed job. They contract on a temp basis.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #51)

Thu Mar 15, 2012, 11:24 PM

54. Actually, in many areas teachers ARE unemployed during the summer.

It's an understood part of the seasonal adjustment performed on unemployment statistics.

Not all of them qualify for unemployment benefits (it varies from state to state) because they have the reasonable expectation of a job starting up with the new school year.


IMO this entire discussion is silly. Teachers get paid a certain amount for an agreed-upon number of days. I really don't care whether we call the other days "vacation" or "raspberries". Nor whether we call it paid or unpaid. Arguing over labels is not worth much of our time.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #51)

Fri Mar 16, 2012, 01:31 PM

60. I don't know why you find this so hard to understand....

Last edited Fri Mar 16, 2012, 02:17 PM - Edit history (6)

Look, most full time jobs-- at least the good ones-- work something like this: you work fifty weeks or so of the year, during which you earn compensation. For those fifty weeks. That typically takes the form of salary, wages, and earned vacation time. My partner's job is exactly like that. She works year round, earns a paycheck every two weeks, and accrues vacation time so that she can take some paid time off occasionally.

Just to be clear, paid vacation leave really is pay for time not worked-- it's a benefit. It typically accrues at some rate while you work, just like paid sick leave.

My job works differently. I don't work fifty some weeks a year (well, I mostly do, but let's not confuse things by considering what I donate back to my employer). Like most teachers, my job is "part time." I "officially" work, and get paid for about 40 weeks of the year. While I'm working, I earn a salary, just like most workers. I do NOT accrue any paid vacation time, however. I do earn sick leave, should I need it, but no paid vacation at all. Zero. Zip. Nada. So I am paid for 40 weeks or so, period. That's what the state pays me for.

However, I have elected to have my 40 weeks of pay dispersed over 52 weeks, i.e. there is no three month gap in my salary because I defer some of each paycheck during those 40 weeks when I work until later, when I'm not working. It's just like putting it into a savings account for later, except that my employer keeps it for me and pays no interest. I do NOT get paid during summer for doing nothing (nor is it even remotely true that I do nothing during summer, but that's beside the point). I get paid during summer for work I did during the academic term BUT WAS NOT PAID FOR THEN.

So here's how you could make the academic calendar work for you, presuming your employer would go along, of course. First, take a 25% pay cut, because you're only going to be paid for 9 months or so instead of the full year you work now. But if you want to lessen the pain, you can still defer some of your (lower) pay during the months when you work and let your employer hold onto it for you, interest free, of course, until the weeks when you are effectively laid off so that you won't have any paycheck gaps. And you get to keep your benefits during those lay offs, too.

Franky, I love the academic calendar-- it's one of the primary reasons I've stayed in academia. Most of us don't get into this work for the money, which is sufficient for my needs but not for many folks'. But the academic calendar, which gives me two and a half months free in summer and a couple of weeks free in winter is truly a wonderful thing. Everyone should work this way, I think. But there are costs, and one of them is that we do not earn any pay during those months when school is not in session.

on edit-- Assuming you've read this far-- sorry for the long winded reply-- I wanted to address your question about whether I'm employed or unemployed during summer. The answer is that things are not quite so black and white. I am on what we call a "nine-month contract" in academic hiring, which means that I AM employed during summer, but the state is only obligated to provide me with work-- and pay-- for nine months each year. It's kind of like being BETWEEN employed and unemployed. The benefit is, well, the benefits. Since I'm still employed, I get to keep my insurance, etc during summer. But the university provides no work during summer and therefore I earn no pay.

The state recognizes this-- my contract states that I have the right to perform outside work amounting to the time commitment necessary to earn no more than 25% of my annual salary, i.e. I can do outside work for no more than roughly three months annually-- precisely the size of the hole in my regular earnings. For that purpose the state treats my summers "off" exactly like a temporary layoff, so that's the sense in which it's like being unemployed. That and not having to show up at the office, of course.

And until I earned tenure, I did indeed have to "reapply" for my job at the end of each academic year, although that was automatic and I didn't have to actually do anything unless I chose not to reapply. But until I earned tenure, I underwent annual performance reviews and was offered a continuation of my nine month contract each August, at my employer's discretion.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #51)

Tue Mar 20, 2012, 10:51 PM

67. Every time I've been a salaried teacher, yes.

Our contracts expired in June, and we were to sign a contract to promise to come back in August, but it didn't start until August. The first year, they prorated our paychecks to continue over the summer, but the second year I was there, they stopped that, and we weren't paid over the summer until the first pay period after our first meeting in August.

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Response to demtenjeep (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 11:53 PM

37. How many jobs require unpaid HOMEWORK almost every night ?

Anyone who thinks it's an easy job is welcome to give it a shot.

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Response to demtenjeep (Original post)

Thu Mar 15, 2012, 08:45 AM

38. For the first 12 years of my career, I had to get summer jobs.

Couldn't afford to teach, otherwise. Now that I've paid off my student loans and moved up the pay scale, I can afford to do other things in the summer—like take classes to renew my teaching credential!

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Response to demtenjeep (Original post)

Thu Mar 15, 2012, 03:20 PM

42. My wife was a teacher

And she never got paid during the summer and I didn't make all that much. By the time September came around, we were flat broke and in debt until her first paycheck came in.

NOBODY in the school system "gets paid to take holidays"

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Response to demtenjeep (Original post)

Thu Mar 15, 2012, 05:49 PM

44. Ivan's Goat

There is a saying, about Russia, that a goatless Russian faced with the problem of his neighbor Ivan having a goat, would kill the goat rather than figure out how to get his own. That, I believe, fairly sums up the ideology of the private sector conservative worker.

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Response to demtenjeep (Original post)

Thu Mar 15, 2012, 06:53 PM

45. 182 days at 6 paid hours per day for me.

I work from 7 to 4 daily at minimum, 7 to 7 at least two days per week, take no breaks except to go to the bathroom, eat lunch at my desk while grading / planning; rarely, rarely, rarely say a word to a colleague that isn't part of my work. I can't pick up my dry-cleaning (not that I have any. Bonus!!) or drop my car off at Jiffylube during the day, much less take or receive personal phone calls. I work until 9 at home grading papers, Saturdays, hell, sometimes all weekend. I buy food for kids, I buy paper, pencils, art supplies for kids out of my own pocket. If teachers in general are not bargain laborers I don't know who would be. And summer is only six weeks long here. The way I figure it the state gets more than 1/3 of my efforts free of charge. Shouldn't that buy me 6 weeks of peace and quite from loonies who don't know that that money is stopped out of my earnings the rest of the year? And debt? Hell, I'm almost fifty and still working down my college loans, still paying for continuing ed.

Yeah, I hear you. The taxpayers don't have to pay me for my summers, I just wish they'd pay me for what I do.

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Response to montanto (Reply #45)

Thu Mar 15, 2012, 07:56 PM

46. The taxpayers don't have to pay me for my summers, I just wish they'd pay me for what I do.

I love that!~


may I borrow it?

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Response to demtenjeep (Reply #46)

Fri Mar 16, 2012, 02:54 PM

61. Absolutely!

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Response to demtenjeep (Reply #46)

Fri Mar 16, 2012, 03:44 PM

62. And I'd settle for a few supplies

I gave up on the pay nonsense years ago. I'd love a few pencils though. And maybe some paper?

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Response to demtenjeep (Original post)

Thu Mar 15, 2012, 08:12 PM

47. Study: Teachers Work the Same Number of Hours as Average U.S. Worker

Teachers Work the Same Number of Hours as Average U.S. Worker
As reported by the Wall Street Journal and according to a 2008 report from the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), American primary-school educators spend 1,913 hours working a year including hours teachers spend on work at home and outside of the classroom. Data from a Labor Department survey that same year showed that the average full-time employee in the United States worked 1,932 hours spread over 48 weeks. This statistic shows that teachers work about the same number of hours as the average worker in the United States. This fact refutes the argument that teachers should be paid considerably less than other workers because "teachers only work 9 months of the year." Any effective teacher has always known that is simply not true. The OECD reported that primary-school educators spent 1,097 hours a year teaching in the classroom--the most of any of the 27 members nations tracked. That same report showed the class sizes in the United States were on average the 10th highest of the 31 nations for which this data was reported. According to data from 2006, salaries for teachers in the United States were ranked 12th when adjusted for purchasing power parity and GDP per capita.



http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-d5MFwqRqcJ8/TgYBM3giIJI/AAAAAAAAACc/opEhU0wW3RU/s1600/US+Teacher+Salaries.png

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bEvVR5pPHts/TgYBRkJwJdI/AAAAAAAAACg/FdwWKV8trLo/s1600/US+Class+Sizes.png

Source: "Education at a Glance 2008," OECD.

Source: "Education at a Glance 2008," OECD.

Link to OECD report: http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/23/46/41284038.pdf

Link to Wall Street Journal Article: "U.S. Teachers’ Hours Among World’s Longest"

This post is quoted by The Atlantic News Wire: http://www.theatlanticwire.com/business/2011/06/us-teachers-work-longest-hours-students-stay-average/39268/

http://americansocietytoday.blogspot.com/2011/06/teachers-work-same-number-of-hours-as.html

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #47)

Thu Mar 15, 2012, 10:00 PM

52. Well, aren't those hours as reported by teachers for work done away from school?

I'm not sure that that's as reliable as workers who log hours at an office, which can be verified. Then it compares hours worked by others for 48 weeks a year? Don't most people work 50 weeks a year?

I guess I work well over the average. My base hours are about 2,000. Then there's the O.T. I have to work. And I probably spend a little time every week just checking office emails from home, phone calls to check on projects, and such.

I wouldn't want to grade papers at home, like teachers. What a pain. But they know that going into the job, as well as what it pays. Teachers do a wonderful job. No doubt about it. And there's a war against them right now, which we must fight against. But don't try to tell me they don't get summer vacation.

I'd be okay with teachers getting raises and having to work summers, since they believe they are not paid for summers already. But I don't guess we would have enough jobs for them to do in the summer.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #52)

Fri Mar 16, 2012, 12:29 PM

59. How much you get paid for that OT?

'Cause guess what I get paid for mine?

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #52)

Fri Mar 16, 2012, 05:11 PM

63. I sign in each morning at 6:45, and I sign out at 3:15 each afternoon.

Except for two days a week, when I'm required to stay 1-1/2 hours later for my PLC meetings, one for each of my teaching preps.

That's 8.5 hours a day x 3 days (25.5 hours)

+10 hours a day x 2 days (20 hours)

x 36 weeks of instruction (36x45.5= 1638 hours)
+ 3 weeks of inservice training from 8:30-4:30 (8x5x3=120)
+ 4 days of summer training on the new CSCOPE programs (8x4=32)
=
1790 hours of at-school, signed-in mandatory work hours.

Now consider: no raise nor step increase this year or next, doubling of our insurance deductible from $500 per person to $1000 per person, increase of $200 per month in our insurance premium.

BTW, the superintendent and chief of staff got the only raises in the district, $15,000 each.

How's that $49,800 gross looking now with a master's degree and 4 different teaching certifications?

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Response to mbperrin (Reply #63)

Fri Mar 16, 2012, 09:40 PM

64. sadly, some are not going to learn

they are too far in their argument to listen to facts now.

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Response to demtenjeep (Reply #64)

Sat Mar 17, 2012, 08:49 PM

65. "Thank you for your service, demtenjeep."

Seriously, thank you.

Usually I reserved that for veterans, as recently as last Thursday where a severely disfigured vet honored us with his presence at a dedication ceremony at a new school program.

But teachers are every bit as vital, maybe moreso, and it's a dangerous and thankless job.

Thank you.

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