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Sun Feb 24, 2013, 05:18 PM

Norway highest wages, best standard of living, best economy, biggest government & tiny CEO salaries

From this article which really kind of sums up what's wrong in the U.S. and why raising the minimun wage is a good idea. Seems to me Norway is a much better model for the U.S. than Germany.

Indicator , U.S. , Norway

Average CEO Compensation, $5.5 Million , $1 Million

Hours Worked Per Year , 1,775 , 1,424

Bond Rating , AAA+ , AAA

Life-Expectancy , 78.5 , 80.3

Employment Protections , Lowest , 6th

Hourly Wage Indicator , 112.4 , 132.1

Unemployment Over 1 Year , 32.2% , 13.7%

Poverty 24.4% , 13.3%

Children in Poverty , 20.6% , 4.6%

Educational Deprivation Index , 4.8% , 1.0%

Infant Mortality , 6.8% , 3.1%

Bullying , 11.9% , 9.4%

Teen Births per 1,000 , 50 , 9.4

Total Carbon Dioxide , 6,802,225 , 53,896

Obesity Rates , 33.9% , 10%

GDP , 9th , 4th

Education Index , 23rd , 7th

Reading , 17th , 12th

Math , 31st , 21st

Science , 23rd , 24th

29 replies, 4290 views

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Arrow 29 replies Author Time Post
Reply Norway highest wages, best standard of living, best economy, biggest government & tiny CEO salaries (Original post)
preventivePhD Feb 2013 OP
Pharaoh Feb 2013 #1
Scuba Feb 2013 #2
jtuck004 Feb 2013 #3
colsohlibgal Feb 2013 #4
raccoon Feb 2013 #17
dipsydoodle Feb 2013 #5
valerief Feb 2013 #7
abelenkpe Feb 2013 #10
dipsydoodle Feb 2013 #19
Diclotican Feb 2013 #12
dipsydoodle Feb 2013 #13
Diclotican Feb 2013 #18
bemildred Feb 2013 #6
iandhr Feb 2013 #8
Diclotican Feb 2013 #20
Thor_MN Feb 2013 #24
grantcart Feb 2013 #9
Diclotican Feb 2013 #15
preventivePhD Feb 2013 #23
Exultant Democracy Feb 2013 #11
Diclotican Feb 2013 #16
world wide wally Feb 2013 #14
Diclotican Feb 2013 #21
preventivePhD Feb 2013 #22
libodem Feb 2013 #25
tblue Feb 2013 #26
preventivePhD Feb 2013 #27
dreamnightwind Mar 2013 #28
bemildred Mar 2013 #29

Response to preventivePhD (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 06:02 PM

1. Those damn socialists!

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Response to preventivePhD (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 06:02 PM

2. Better ski jumpers too.

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Response to preventivePhD (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 06:08 PM

3. K&R.Maybe that's the key, shorter CEO's. n/t

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Response to preventivePhD (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 06:14 PM

4. Their System Works For Everyone, Ours Works For The Rich And Connected

I would imagine also that nowhere near 40% of Norway's people believe the earth is 6,000 years old.

So many see or hear the term socialism and think totalitarianism. They are two different things. Democratic Socialism can work anywhere. These Scandinavian countries vote (and minus all the roadblocks the right wants here), and not surprisingly they won't vote this out. The right there tends to only break from the left on immigration.

You can still get wealthy there, just not obscenely so.

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Response to colsohlibgal (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:18 PM

17. Exactly, and it used to be that way with the word "communism."


"So many see or hear the term socialism and think totalitarianism. They are two different things."


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Response to preventivePhD (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 06:14 PM

5. Norway has a total population of 10 million

and sustantial income from the North Sea. As such they can manage and afford accordingly. The only meaningful comparison would be of another of the same population size and income.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #5)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 06:32 PM

7. I guess all we'd need to do is get rid of our MASSIVE WAR BUDGET. nt

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #5)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 06:48 PM

10. We can't accomplish that because we're too big? Nt

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Response to abelenkpe (Reply #10)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:19 PM

19. Well try CO2 emmission per capita sometime as an example

and do something positive with regard to global warming http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.CO2E.PC

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #5)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 06:58 PM

12. dipsydoodle

dipsydoodle

No we do not - we have a total population of little over 5 million people - and yes, we do have a lot of our income form the North Sea - where the oil is used to the best for most pepole... And even though some parties, like FRP in its wisdom wanted to sell all rights to the North Sea to american companies, for a mear 1 milliard US dollar - we managed rather weal - and have over the last 40 or so year be given ten, or maybe 20-30 times the value FRP wanted to sell our oil right for - And even have a large petroleum found, who have milliards to its name - in fact, we are one of the most wealthy nations on the face of the earth, if we should count the money at the petroleum found (who was given life, by a Labor government at the early 1990s )

And we have other things than just oil and gas who come out of the North sea - traditionally, long before we discovered the oil - fish from North Sea was one of the biggest contributors to our national income - and industry on land, also contributed a lot - and still do..

Diclotican

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Response to Diclotican (Reply #12)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:08 PM

13. I was simply pointing out

its a joke comparison which fails to account for population size amongst other important factors.

Even Cuba beats the US on most of the factors listed.

Not sure how I got the pop. size wrong - apologies. I'll remember that now.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #13)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:19 PM

18. dipsydoodle

dipsydoodle

Aha - okay, then I understand better

Yeah - and that made many conservatives in the US furious when even poor Cuba beat US on most of the factors listed...

You might have read the think wrong - and believed it to be Sweden - who are more or less in the same league with 10 million, more or less (but they are far less rich than Norway too - as they do not have any oil to speak about, the little brother, have been a grown up now - and is willing to show off his wealth more than before )

Diclotican

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Response to preventivePhD (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 06:30 PM

6. Thereby proving that neo-liberal economic dogma is bullshit. nt

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Response to preventivePhD (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 06:32 PM

8. Norway also has oil.

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Response to iandhr (Reply #8)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:21 PM

20. iandhr

iandhr

Other nations, who have a lot of oil - have not been able to do as Norway - spend the wealth wisely - but have instead wasted billions of dollars, to nothing worth having a decade after..

And for the most part, our public servants have not been in the public pockets either, to steal money - we have had a fairly honest public sector...

Diclotican

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Response to iandhr (Reply #8)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 08:14 PM

24. The US has (had?) no natural resources?

Much of the US's natural resources have been auctioned off for pennies to the politically connected.

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Response to preventivePhD (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 06:37 PM

9. Well there is a simple reason why


Norway has the largest sovereign pension fund in the world with over $ 600 billion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Petroleum_Fund_of_Norway

This happened for two reasons:

Norway has enormous gas and natural gas deposits that they have been drilling for 50 years.

They put most of the money into a permanent investment fund.

They also hired a philosopher to run their petroleum system because "he would ask questions".

Yes it is socialist. Yes the nationalized all drilling.

But they also made the decision not to use for immediate benefit but to invest it and take only part of the profit each year so it will continue to grow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Petroleum_Fund_of_Norway

A Socialist structure administered by conservative fiscal principals, it will continue to benefit Norwegians for endless generations.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #9)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:11 PM

15. grantcart

grantcart

Norway did some smart with their oil - and gas - instead of just spend it as a drunk sailor on land, we deiced to spend the money wisely - and also to keep most of it on our petroleum found as you stated..

And we even had a state philosopher, to ask questions - even though I do not believe he is hired anymore

We had some luck when it come to the oil and gas thing - before 1973, when we was starting to not just drill for oil, but in fact be able to use it properly, and sell it to the world - many did believe it was nothing to discover there - at least not oil and gas.... Some pure luck - some knowledge - and there it was...

I'm not sure if it a socialistic structure - but it do have some ideas from a socialistic structure - and the benefits from our oil and gas will give all of us a possible welfare, and decent public healt care for most people, as long as we are able to not spend to much and not play to hard a game.. For the most part our ideas, when it come to economy - specially when it comes to our petroleum found, is based on fairly conservative ideas - not use to much money - and save it to a rainy day - we know it will come, and maybe even have been here for a while.. Compared to the rest of Europe, who have been in chrisis mode for years - Norway is like a calm ship, in a sea of Chaos..

I guess, centuries of experiences with a nation who have been poor comparative to our nabours - tend to get into the bones - and stay there, even as our wealth is great now...

And as long as Norway just save money - and not spend it all - Norway can in theory save enough money to have for as long as money exist...

We kind of nationalized the oil drilling, even if we also was able to split with oil companies as Exxon Mobil and others, the production expenditures - and also who are given what surplus - I think it is 40/60 now in favor of the government of Norway... Aka, everyone who live in Norway..

Diclotican

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Response to grantcart (Reply #9)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 08:05 PM

23. US has greater oil reserves though and more geothermal energy which we've ignored.

They export most oil and use geothermal for themselves and don't pollute (see table).

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Response to preventivePhD (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 06:49 PM

11. Also basically athiest. That will show you what living in a fact based world will get you.

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Response to Exultant Democracy (Reply #11)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:16 PM

16. Exultant Democracy

Exultant Democracy

Well, not exactly right - many on Norway have religious belief - but it is not "fashionable" to show off what you believe in - and have never really being it for years and years...

We had even a conservative minister as Prime Minister a couple of years ago - and it worked well I might ad - even though he was playing a carefull game to not push it to long..
Diocletian

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Response to preventivePhD (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:10 PM

14. Don't let the Republicans know or they will think you're a communist Nazi or something

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Response to world wide wally (Reply #14)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:22 PM

21. world wide wally

world wide wally

If the US Republicans had known...

Diclotican

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Response to preventivePhD (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 08:03 PM

22. Interesting to compare responses to this article on Daily Kos with here.

Here you get the idea that people realize what's going on in the U.S. while on the Daily Kos the comments are all Republican-like.

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Response to preventivePhD (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 11:37 AM

25. Wow

My mom's ancestors came from there. No wonder I have liberal Viking blood in my veins.

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Response to preventivePhD (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 11:43 AM

26. If only I liked cold weather and fish

I'd consider moving there. Seriously. Good for them! I hope more Americans read these stats.

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Response to preventivePhD (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 10:17 PM

27. Refutation of argument that Norway's Wealth has something to do with it.

Last edited Wed Feb 27, 2013, 12:37 AM - Edit history (2)

Norway is slightly wealthier per person ($53,000 vs. $48,000) per person due to the fact they Norway doesn't spend so much of its wealth on foreign wars and other military endeavors and doesn't have a bubble economy. None of that is an excuse or an explanation for why Norway provides for its citizens and the U.S. Norway can do that because they lack Republicans.

Here is a link https://www.impartial-review.com/stories/top-ten-responses-to-the-norway-versus-the-u-s-story with further facts about differences between Norway and the U.S.

P.S. Other excuses I've seen were addressed in Rachel Maddow's commercial about "Greatness" not being in the U.S. future. The only thing holding back the U.S. is conservative propaganda.

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Response to preventivePhD (Reply #27)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 03:04 AM

28. Deep Capture

Well I disagree about the root problem here.

I'm as anti-Republican as anybody, but our problems are worse than that.

Deep Capture

Our nation has been captured by oligarchs who own our politicians and our media. In fact they own just about everything. They play the left against the right to amuse themselves and to keep us from noticing the men behind the curtain.

The U.S. had military might, a strong industrial infrastructure, and many of the world's leading corporations started here. These factors (among others) made us an inviting capture target. Control of the U.S. = control of a great percentage of the world's resources, access guaranteed by our military. Norway would be far lower on the radar of the corporations. Control of the Norwegian government just isn't as good of an investment.

I acknowledge that we do have a strong rural conservative base that is averse to more socialist-leaning policies, but it is greatly exaggerated and inflamed by the propaganda machine, and the much larger story is that our system has been almost entirely captured by corporate interests who are dead set against the country's human resources getting their hands on any of the loot.

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Response to dreamnightwind (Reply #28)

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 08:23 AM

29. Yep, as long as elections are bought with money, we are going to have bought politicians.

All the rest is Hollywood drama for the Rubes.

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