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Mon Dec 19, 2011, 10:36 AM

MF Global trustee seizes investor's gold and silver boullion, too.

"The trustee overseeing the liquidation of the failed brokerage has proposed dumping all remaining customer assets—gold, silver, cash, options, futures and commodities—into a single pool that would pay customers only 72% of the value of their holdings. In other words, while traders already may have paid the full price for delivery of specific bars of gold or silver—and hold "warehouse receipts" to prove it—they'll have to forfeit 28% of the value."

Plus, owners could not sell their metals before the market for them went down
AND
they still have to pay storage fees!

The best link I have to this latest outrage is here:
http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2011/12/attempt-to-seize-and-liquidate-customer.html

edited to add:

Denninger's comment is this:

"NO -- and I repeat NO -- property held allegedly for your benefit by any third party anywhere is safe under this "theory" of the bankruptcy trustee. Yes, this includes something so simple as the money on deposit in your bank account."

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=199356

17 replies, 2607 views

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Reply MF Global trustee seizes investor's gold and silver boullion, too. (Original post)
dixiegrrrrl Dec 2011 OP
phantom power Dec 2011 #1
dixiegrrrrl Dec 2011 #2
dkf Dec 2011 #3
dixiegrrrrl Dec 2011 #4
dkf Dec 2011 #5
Ghost Dog Dec 2011 #10
mark cookson Jan 2012 #17
Demeter Dec 2011 #9
Ruby the Liberal Dec 2011 #6
dixiegrrrrl Dec 2011 #7
Ruby the Liberal Dec 2011 #8
Po_d Mainiac Dec 2011 #11
dixiegrrrrl Dec 2011 #13
Po_d Mainiac Dec 2011 #14
dixiegrrrrl Dec 2011 #15
Po_d Mainiac Dec 2011 #16
Po_d Mainiac Dec 2011 #12

Response to dixiegrrrrl (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 12:14 PM

1. There is an interesting thing going on here...

It is becoming increasingly clear that the entire world's financial system is corrupt from the inside out, and untrustworthy. Naively, I would predict some kind of "run on financial-system-X."

But, to have a "run," there has to be some place where people want to move their value. Which raises a fascinating problem: If people look around and see that every possible option is crooked and untrustworthy, where do they move their net worth?

You could possibly argue that the ultimate-hedge-of-last-resort is "buy metal and stash it under your mattress," (*) but if you're talking about millions of dollars, that starts to not seem very attractive either, since a single burglar could wipe you out.

I don't know. Property? Art? Where is it going to go? I realize that some percentage is truly going to just evaporate, since it was never anything but virtual.

(*) or if you want to go full-zombie-apocalypse, I suppose "buy food/ammo and stash it under your mattress"

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Response to phantom power (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 12:42 PM

2. Silver bullets?

They would at least be multi purpose....kill werewolves, use for self defense, or for barter......


I know Jim rogers moved to Singapore several years ago, saying "the US is done for"
and one of his recent columns he discussed his investing in farmland and food commodities.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 02:09 PM

3. I'm amazed this isn't more of a headline.

 

Or is it too much to contemplate?

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Response to dkf (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 02:36 PM

4. The implications are too scary, for sure.

And, sadly, only a small % of people seem interested in financial matters.
Plus, the terms that get thrown around....this new "Rehypothecation " term, for instance, boggles the mind.

Look how many years it took for the implications of the " sub-prime mortgage crisis" to be realized for what it really was..
full bore mortgaged fraud by the banks.

But, ya know what struck me?
If "Rehypothecation " is just a big word for pledging collateral 100 times over for the same bet in the money funds

is it not pretty logical they did the same thing with mortgages in the trust/MBS funds
and THAT is why they had to come up all those robo signers to produce forged docs once the docs were needed ?

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 06:13 PM

5. Aha! Damn, those used to be considered "safe assets" too, prime for the collateralization market.

 

Isn't that why they will never let the lawsuits get out of hand though? It almost cries out to be papered over just to keep things functioning.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 07:53 PM

10. "Rehypothecation" seems to mean pledging the same collateral many times over for

many bets in the money funds.

In other words something that would be simple outright fraud if attempted by you or me, I think I'm right in saying. But these people seem to think that "deregulation" has meant that they are not beholden to any law.

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Response to Ghost Dog (Reply #10)

Fri Jan 13, 2012, 06:32 AM

17. Rehypothecation part 2

Have you seen part 2 of the Reuters rehypothecation article? It looks like you can use rehypos to get around customer accoutn regulation. http://currents.westlawbusiness.com/Article.aspx?id=3ad720bf-7caf-4086-8464-53a6ef26ca5b&cid=&src=&sp=

how can that be legal?

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Response to phantom power (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 07:03 PM

9. It's called a revolution

the only feasible response to widespread corruption in markets, corporations, banks, government, media, etc, etc,

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 06:18 PM

6. Wholey sheet.

This has mind boggling implications. People who called for physical (and have the receipt) are being paid pennies on the dollar?

What about the storage, insurance and audit protections?

My head is spinning on this one.

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Response to Ruby the Liberal (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 06:42 PM

7. Apparenlty the owners of the metals have to keep paying storage fees, too.

This ties in somehow with J.P. Morgan being desperately short on silver , then suddenly getting its hands of the MF Global storage of metals.
I am still looking for a story that explains that. Keiser was overviewing it without much detail, yesterday.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 06:57 PM

8. If anyone can sniff out the JPM angle on this

it will be him. Boy has been on JPM and their silver manipulation for a long while now.

I hope he blows the damn lid off of this one.

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Response to Po_d Mainiac (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 20, 2011, 09:26 AM

13. So, he fingers JP MOrgan too.

Keiser has been saying this for over a year, but without as much background info as your link.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Reply #13)

Tue Dec 20, 2011, 10:15 AM

14. And HSBC..Do you recall when this occured?

GATA chairman Bill Murphy gave a detailed account of Maguire's allegations to the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC), stating how "JP Morgan Chase signals to the market its intention to take down the precious metals. Traders recognize these signals and make money shorting the metals alongside JPM. explained how there are routine market manipulations at the time of option expiry, non-farm payroll data releases, and COMEX contract rollover, as well as the ad-hoc events."

According to Maguire, the precious metals markets trade "pretty much in tandem", but because the silver market is so much smaller, it is harder to disguise one's activities and therefore easier to figure out who is behind a manipulative event. After Bear Stearns and their short silver positions were acquired by JPMorgan, manipulative events in the silver market became more frequent. Maguire decided to inform the CFTC. He contacted commissioner Bart Chilton, who had Eliud Ramirez, a senior investigator from the CFTC's enforcement division, get in touch with Maguire. Maguire explained the manipulations in great detail, both over the phone in an hour-long interview and afterward, in a series of e-mails with screen shots.

Maguire then predicted a manipulative event in the silver market and gave detailed information in an e-mail to the CFTC about what to expect, sending it on February 3, 2010, two days prior to the event. The event transpired exactly as Maguire predicted. While the event was taking place, Maguire sent e-mails in real time, pointing out certain details because the CFTC enforcement seemed not to know what to look for or how to interpret the data.

...........

Maguire and his wife were injured in London in a hit-and-run accident on March 26, 2010, the day after Maguire's name came to light during a CFTC hearing on limiting gold and silver positions held by large market participants in order to prevent manipulation. Maguire believes the accident was an attempt on his life. The driver of the other vehicle was apprehended after a police chase, both on the ground and from the air in helicopters, but his name has not been released. Maguire said, "We got hit in the side at full acceleration and tried to corral the cars in a gas station, including the guy who hit us with a commercial vehicle." The assailant then sped away, hitting at least two more cars. Maguire said the police told him the assailant was known to them, but he has been unable to get further information about the case. The assailant was reportedly given a slap on the wrist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Maguire_(Whistle_Blower)

more

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/205674-Andrew-McGuire-whistle-blower-on-market-manipulation-injured-in-hit-and-run-accident

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Response to Po_d Mainiac (Reply #14)

Tue Dec 20, 2011, 10:41 AM

15. Ahhh,,yes, I had forgotten about that.

Might need to keep a folder on the folks getting into "accidents and suicides" in the foreclosure mess, such as the woman whistleblower found dead last month.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Reply #15)

Tue Dec 20, 2011, 03:30 PM

16. And small aircraft

Last edited Tue Dec 20, 2011, 04:02 PM - Edit history (1)

2 dead bankers...Greenhill &Co.....


Greenhill & Co., Inc. is an independent investment bank focused on providing financial advice on significant mergers, acquisitions, restructurings, financings and capital raisings to corporations, partnerships, institutions and governments. The firm made $298.6m in sales in 2009, with a $71.2m profit. The firm competes primarily against other M&A specialists like Lazard, Rothschild, Evercore Partners, and Moelis & Co. as well as financial conglomerates like Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley and JPMorgan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhill_%26_Co

hmmm...wunner what they knew?

edit to add...GHL share price down 55% YTD..

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