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Tue Feb 19, 2013, 01:29 AM

Is hating men THIS MUCH healthy?

http://radfemcentral.wordpress.com/2013/01/19/the-power-of-female-rage/

This blog is true hate speech and the transphobia and naked hatred of them is shocking. Is hatred of men the real issue behind this or is it something else?

For all the accusation of woman-hating, do you think there are men that fly off the handle this much against woman who become men like Chastity Bono?
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Yesterday Janet Mock of People Magazine, (he of “Girls Like Us” fame), decided to start a campaign against my blog. Early Friday morning (before my Suzanne Moore Tweet post) I became aware of a censorship campaign against GenderTrender, and all wordpress radical feminist blogs. There have been a million of these campaigns, but Mock is a very powerful man.

Mock initially became enraged when he read my post (Number 4 above) and saw a photo of himself, and “misgendering” (because it mentioned that he was male) and decided that women have no right to discuss or post photos of public figures on feminist blogs. Instead of filing a complaint with wordpress or messaging me with his demands (or just shutting the fuck up) he started a twitter campaign to ban my blog which was quickly seized by trans activists smelling blood in the water following their successful censorship of Burchill and success in driving Suzanne Moore off of twitter. All the usual suspects came on board within minutes: Hetero female “fag” Stephen Ira, Lefty “TGirl” inventor of the ladystick Savanna Garmon, Transfeminist Natalie “Die cis scum” Reed and all the rest. NO DISCUSSION of TRANS ACTIVISM by WOMEN they railed. GAG THESE BITCHES.



This is the picture Gay Male Janet Mock complained about

When I did not notice Mock’s campaign (because I never check my tweets and I was sleeping) he engaged his pals to post news articles complaining about wordpress.com’s hosting of gender critical and trans-critical blogs. The proposed banning of all female voices re: politics relating to gender, especially mine. I took action when I became aware of Mock’s campaign, specifically his charge that the public news-site photo I had used was off limits. To placate his male rage I replaced that pic with an alternate screen cap from another (NBC) appearance, and I kindly tweeted him that I had resolved his photo issue. Seriously, these guys literally think they can lobby on the national news and women have no right to discuss it. HOW DARE IT SPEAK???

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Reply Is hating men THIS MUCH healthy? (Original post)
Bonobo Feb 2013 OP
Behind the Aegis Feb 2013 #1
Bonobo Feb 2013 #2
Behind the Aegis Feb 2013 #3
Bonobo Feb 2013 #4
Behind the Aegis Feb 2013 #5
Bonobo Feb 2013 #6
Behind the Aegis Feb 2013 #7
Bonobo Feb 2013 #8
Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #17
Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #15
LadyHawkAZ Feb 2013 #20
Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #23
LadyHawkAZ Feb 2013 #24
ProudToBeBlueInRhody Feb 2013 #11
MicaelS Feb 2013 #9
ProudToBeBlueInRhody Feb 2013 #10
Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #14
Gore1FL Feb 2013 #38
Sen. Walter Sobchak Feb 2013 #58
yardwork Feb 2013 #12
Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #13
yardwork Feb 2013 #18
lumberjack_jeff Feb 2013 #19
yardwork Feb 2013 #25
Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #27
yardwork Feb 2013 #28
Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #29
yardwork Feb 2013 #30
Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #31
yardwork Feb 2013 #32
Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #33
yardwork Feb 2013 #34
Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #39
Bonobo Feb 2013 #35
yardwork Feb 2013 #36
Bonobo Feb 2013 #37
yardwork Feb 2013 #42
Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #53
Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #22
yardwork Feb 2013 #26
Major Nikon Feb 2013 #40
yardwork Feb 2013 #41
Major Nikon Feb 2013 #43
Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #44
Major Nikon Feb 2013 #45
yardwork Feb 2013 #47
Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #48
yardwork Feb 2013 #50
Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #52
Major Nikon Feb 2013 #49
Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #51
Major Nikon Feb 2013 #54
Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #55
Major Nikon Feb 2013 #56
Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #16
Denninmi Feb 2013 #21
Denninmi Feb 2013 #46
lumberjack_jeff Feb 2013 #57
Dash87 Feb 2013 #59

Response to Bonobo (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 02:24 AM

1. He, he, he! "IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" WTF!

What a nasty, bigoted POS this person is! What a hate-filled bigot, but then again, is there any other type?

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 02:31 AM

2. What I don't get it how THAT is not a "hate group"/"Hate site"

If you read the articles on this link, you will see just how crazed these extremists are.

http://radicalhub.com/radical-perspectives-lots-of-links/

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #2)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 02:44 AM

3. I don't know that is a group, though I see the "circle."

The rant sounds almost deranged! I thought I was reading a Fred Phelps site, except those people have no love for women, so...

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #3)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 02:49 AM

4. Well to the same extent that the "MRA" is defined as a group.

There is an affiliated circle of websites that are defined externally as being a "group" in that they share common ideology and talking points.

In the case of the links I sent you, you can see virtually all the "talking points" I have come to associate with those who are not content to be called "feminists" but must self-define as "rad fems".

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #4)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 03:11 AM

5. I completely understand what you are saying.

It is amazing how many were willing to re-blog that schlock. Extremists of any brand are usually assholes and whacked out anyway, but it doesn't make their hate any less real and dangerous.

You sent me links? I just checked my PMs and I didn't see anything. Or are you talking about the links in the post? I did read some of the comments...WOW! Just...WOW!

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #5)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 03:19 AM

6. Yeah, these links.

http://radicalhub.com/radical-perspectives-lots-of-links/

I know you'll appreciate this one (not.)
http://factcheckme.wordpress.com/the-intercourse-series/
The “intercourse” series “intercourse” house party (part 1)

now. gays and lesbians are vilified, under this system, because homosexuals fuck up the narrative (again, the narrative is, and must be, men fuck women, and women are fucked by men). see? regarding gay men, they make it too clear that men have asses that can be fucked. its not *just* women that can be fucked, men can be fucked too. but how is that supposed to work???!!!!!1 no, its not fucking unless women are fucked. its not “fucking” unless someone can die from it, unless someone can become pregnant. because fucking and female subservience are the same thing.

and i have kinda been harsh on transwomen in this series, but they fit in here too, dont they? because transwomen are men, and they have asses that can be fucked. they have fake fuckholes that can be fucked. but its not fucking unless someone can die from it, unless someone can become pregnant. because fucking and female subservience are the same thing. and its not a fucking coincidence, is it, that many times when a straight man murders a transwoman, its after he has fucked her (or right before), and finds out that shes not a woman? because the transwoman reminds him that he, too, has an ass, that can be fucked. that what they have just done or almost done together wasnt fucking or almost fucking, it was something “disturbing” in fact, because its not fucking unless someone can die from it, unless someone can get pregnant.

those are my thoughts at the moment. that, and something i might have wondered about if i were about 15 years younger, cause i dont really care at this point: if we made PIV *more* traumatic for men, would they have the common decency to pick up the fucking phone the next day, but without going all stalker?

pass the lube!

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #6)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 03:38 AM

7. WHAT THE HOLY FUCK IS WRONG WITH THAT ASSHOLE?!

That has to be one of the MOST DISGUSTING things I have read in awhile! It's not "fucking" unless someone can die or get pregnant?! So my mother, who has had a hysterectomy can't be "fucked" because she can't become pregnant? And who has been "fucked to death?!" EVER?!

That person is a goddamned sicko!

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #7)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 03:47 AM

8. Yup. And the "mindset" behind it has to be seriously questioned.

But that kind of filth is gobbled up by a certain subset of the "feminist" audience that feels the need to separate themself from other "feminists" who are merely content to work for equality but without the vicious, savagery and all-out hate being spewed among those circles.

It is, I feel, the ethical equivalent of total war. And the enemy chosen is men (whether they be gay, straight, transexual, right wing, left wing).

It is hatred. It is sick. It is unforgivable.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #8)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 03:23 PM

17. It's mental illness, obviously.

Sort of like the mental illness which Dworkin had, finally leading to her belief that she was being chased across Europe by giant invisible phantom penises, before she died.... to the point at which even some of her most erstwhile, lifelong "allies" acknowledged, among themselves, "yeah, she's gone nuts", although they blamed exhaustion and the ever present and all-purpose blameatron, "The Patriarchy"... Apparently reviewing her lifetime of inane gibberings, going back decades, equating sex to rape and calling for the abolishment of erections, um, that would have been too much.

She was nuts like Solanas was nuts; so any "movement" that holds up clearly insane people as their "visionary leaders"... well, do the math.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #7)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 03:13 PM

15. Yeah.

One of the other folks at "radfemhub" blogged about how she's in child care, and one of the "future rapists" she was watching, a 9 year old boy, kissed a girl on the cheek and as such she "wished she could throw him out the window to keep him from growing up".

Great, yes, really you should be watching children.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #15)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 04:46 PM

20. I had to go look that one up

because that's so out-of line disturbing that it gave me brain freeze, and to be somewhat fair to the psycho caregiver, the little boy didn't just kiss the girl on the cheek. He backed her into a corner with two other children and demanded that she kiss him, and then some time later told her "If you don't love me back and be my girlfriend, I'll just rape you".

That would freak anyone out a bit. BUT:

Lo these many years ago, believe it or not, I did child care for a while. A short while, until I learned how much I didn't like children (and believe me, that's something you learn very quickly working in a day care). And my take on it is this: you have witnessed a 9 year old child in your care acting out sexually bullying on two different occasions. Your job, at this point, is to take that child aside and have a little discussion about the word "rape" in your best non-threatening talking-to-a-9-year-old voice, including questions like what he feels is meant by that word and where he learned that word. And then you go and have a chat with your contact at Child Protective Services; because acting out is called "acting out" for a reason, when children of nine act out in a sexualized manner it's a great big red flag for something rotten happening on the home front, and you are a fucking mandatory reporter and this is a child in your care. It's your job, by law, to find out what the hell is going on with that kid, yes, even if he has a penis and used a bad word. That's why you're called a caregiver.

Here's what you don't do: you don't hail things like "I'd have threatened to cut his pecker off" or "I'd have thrown him out the window" as being wonderfully supportive advice from your sisters in spirit, because once you do that, you fail utterly at child nurturing. What the little boy said was disturbing, but his caregiver completely fucked up her reaction to it and has no business caring for children. I really loathe kids, but even I would have bridled at "support" like that, no matter how upset I was. She needs to find a new line of work, far away from any young children, and I sincerely hope she gets help before she decides to have her own.

"I honestly have been reassessing the fact that I am giving care to these little future rapists, and what that says about me and my separatism. I know it is kinda going against my principles to support and care for these little fuckers"


Argh. Fail.

I'll butt back out of your group now.

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Response to LadyHawkAZ (Reply #20)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:01 PM

23. Thanks for clarifying. The details on that particular story have been telephoned, for sure-

and if one goes looking for it, a lot of the folks making noise about it are dubious sources in their own right, for obvious reasons.

Bottom line is, though, some atrocious shit has been said on the "radfemhub" board. That much is apparent.

Thanks, again, for the clarification.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #23)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:04 PM

24. Atrocious indeed.

Even minus the telephone effect, reading that thread gave me the creeps.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #6)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 11:50 AM

11. This is telling

"those are my thoughts at the moment. that, and something i might have wondered about if i were about 15 years younger, cause i dont really care at this point: if we made PIV *more* traumatic for men, would they have the common decency to pick up the fucking phone the next day, but without going all stalker?"

Hmm....so they really don't hate men, I guess....or just not that much.

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Response to Bonobo (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 11:36 AM

9. Can someone explain the basis of the radfem rage against LGBT people?

I'm not asking a rhetorical question, I really want to know.

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Response to MicaelS (Reply #9)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 11:49 AM

10. From what I parsed....

....they do not consider a man who has had transgender sexual reassignment as a woman, a "real" women....and therefore a dangerous "interloper" trying to "infiltrate".

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Response to MicaelS (Reply #9)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 03:05 PM

14. Yeah, sure. Here it is, essentially:

Men are the penultimate evil, the source of all oppression and essentially everything that is wrong with the Universe.

Women are to be protected and separated from the evil male, preferably with their own planet or something.

The paranoia around MTF transsexuals plays into the bizarre conspiracy theories around something called "The Patriarchy". Part of the evil patriarchal plot against womynspace is to have men surgically remove their genitalia (sure, why not) and become women so that "The Patriarchy" can invade sacred holy protected womynspace with their evil stinky stealth male-ness.

There is also hate reserved for FTM transsexuals, altough it's worth noting it's a different stripe and not quite as vehement or paranoid. The hate for FTM transpeople like Chaz Bono is more of the "traitor!!!" variety: See, men are evil and stinky (see above) and as such wanting to BECOME one is becoming the evil oppressor and identifying with that which should be stricken from the Cosmos.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #14)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 09:09 PM

38. I feel fortunate that the Women I know in real life are sane. n/t

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Response to MicaelS (Reply #9)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 05:24 PM

58. As best I recall from university there are two "issues"

The first is that the transgendered gentleman seeks to rape lesbians by deception and may have embarked on their path for that very reason. Yeah...

The second reason is that the transgendered are perceived to enthusiastically embracse femininity and feminine gender roles, making them automatically as contemptible as any "het sex bot", but all of the above were usually just referred to crudely as a plural industrial sized waste containers for male biological material

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Response to Bonobo (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 01:45 PM

12. In answer to your question about whether or not there are men who hate Chas Bono as much as

this woman hates male-to-female transgender people - yes. Just check out FreeRepublic or the comments section under any news story about Chas Bono.

There are people who are filled with hatred in the world and no, it's not healthy.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #12)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 02:58 PM

13. I think it's a particular obsession with this crowd. I don't hang around on FR much, but I suspect

they hate Chaz Bono the same as they hate Barney Frank the same as they hate Liz Warren the same as they hate Obama the same as they hate you or I... basically, they're busy hating everyone who isn't Wally n' the Beev, circa 1954.

Granted, that's a lot of hate. But the community Bonobo is referring to in his OP gets positively unhinged on the particular subject of transpeople.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #13)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 03:48 PM

18. Yes, there are a group of feminists who get unhinged about trans people, for reasons outlined here.

They are a tiny fraction of the zillions of people who call themselves feminists, though. They are truly a fringe group.

In contrast, the majority of people who identify as Republicans are anti-trans and anti-gay, as well as being anti-feminist.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #18)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 04:15 PM

19. The challenge is separating one from the other.

Those who promote that kind of hate are happy to speak for feminists in general, without much obvious pushback.

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #19)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:36 PM

25. Nonsense. I don't know a single feminist in real life who would have anything to do with this.

There might be one poster on DU who flirts with this kind of thing, but that's the most.

Check out the link that Warren DeMontague just posted. These people are considered the fringe of the fringe.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #25)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:56 PM

27. Most *actual* feminists I know in real life are completely pro LGBT rights, for instance.

Most of them consider the front burner issues to be things like VAWA, or Lily Ledbetter, or Roe v. Wade, or Marriage Equality. Not censorship, or keeping Y Chromosomes out of the Michigan Womyn's Music Fest.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #27)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 06:01 PM

28. That is correct.

It's entirely possible that these extremists are some kind of false flag operation, with the goal of dividing progressives.

There are issues with sexism in both the gay rights and civil rights movements. There are fault lines. Patriarchy is a big problem for everybody. But to take those issues and translate them into actual hatred for men and transgender people is irrational and bigoted.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #28)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 06:24 PM

29. Nah, I suspect most disgruntled kooks are genuine.

There doesn't seem to be a shortage of authentic ones, on any issue.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #29)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 07:24 PM

30. Good point. Either way they are not representative.

For instance, none of the (relatively few) women in Congress attack men, but a number of the men in Congress constantly say hateful things about women and introduce legislation opposed to women's rights.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #30)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 08:04 PM

31. You are spot on, there.

The real enemy, to my mind, is the religious right and the right wing. How someone might get it in their head instead that, say, MTF transsexuals are "the problem" (if ever there was a disenfranchised, out-group minority, gender dysphoric folks- who have an incredibly tough row to hoe, if you ask me- are one) is just beyond anything resembling rational logic.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #31)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 08:07 PM

32. It's either extremely irrational or a false flag designed to divide progressives.

It's either a troll or astroturf. Only their PC knows for sure.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #32)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 08:11 PM

33. I just don't think it's big or influential enough to be a false flag.

If you look at where this particular sliver of "movement" is popular, you have folks in bumblefuck Australia talking to folks in England, mostly. There may be one or two in the US, but it's hardly anything resembling a groundswell, much less one that even has the remotest hint of traction. Honestly, I wouldn't have heard of any of it- or the equally inane MRA crazies on the other side- were it not for DU.

When I think False flag I think of the folks at the Iraq War rallies who made a point of lighting garbage cans on fire in front of the news cameras. 99% of the time I think radfem hub is the same 5 people (and their socks, of course- "hello my sisters!" ) talking to themselves. Not much of a false flag.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #33)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 08:15 PM

34. Very good points. I had never heard of this "radfem" movement either and I'm old as dirt.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #34)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 09:16 PM

39. I had a friend who attended Smith College in the 80s. For about a year or two we couldn't converse

because I was a "phalloppressor". That was my first introduction to the works of Dworkin, MacKinnon, Brownmiller, etc. etc.

Then she transferred to a school on the West Coast and deprogrammed herself in short order. She's on a completely different planet, now, philosophically.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #25)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 08:24 PM

35. So then why do some here on DU lay claim to the title "rad fem". Isn't it the "radicalism"

that we are talking about?

What is wrong with simply "feminism"? What is missing in that word that some feel they need to describe themselves as radical and how does it relate to showing images of woman striking down men with swords?

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #35)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 08:42 PM

36. Don't ask me. I have no idea what they're talking about.

You would have to ask the people who claim to be "rad fem." I'd never heard the term before DU and I certainly don't identify that way myself.

I am a feminist.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #36)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 08:54 PM

37. I should not have phrased it as a question.

I should have said that from what I can see, "radfem" is a term that people choose to adopt for themselves if they are unsatisfied with less angry feminists such as yourself and decide that they need to go WAY FURTHER with the angry rhetoric as is reflected on the various websites in the link I included.

As I said, reading through them is an instruction manual in many of the arguments we see here in certain circles on DU.

I do not see any way to avoid the conclusion that those who admit they are "radfems" are in approval of this kind of hate speech. They could deny it in much the same way as a person that claims to be a member of the KKK but who then goes on to say they are "not like THOSE KKK".

Choose the label to wear and you take on the luggage that exists out there.

If rad fem hub and the many websites it is linked with are hate speech (and I think they are), then those who term themselves rad fems have some explaining to do.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #37)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 10:54 AM

42. The assumption that I am "less angry" might be incorrect.

I'm plenty angry about patriarchy and its results. The fact that I disagree with the people who created that website you linked in your OP doesn't make me any less angry or any less a feminist.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #42)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 05:31 PM

53. I guess my question is, what are the specific things you are angry about?

Odds are, many of them are ones I and others here are angry about as well- whether or not we count "Patriarchy" as the cause.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #18)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 04:57 PM

22. I think the ONLY people who assert that "radfemhub" represents all "real" Feminists is radfemhub

themselves.

Clearly we're dealing with some insane fringe outliers.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #22)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:37 PM

26. Exactly, as the folks at your link point out.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #18)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 02:00 AM

40. A fraction, yes

Tiny, I'm not so sure. Certainly they are a minority population within those who call themselves feminists. Radical feminists still seem to hold a significant (albeit waning) population among feminists in general and within that ideology there certainly seems to be a significant population which subscribe the the Sheila Jeffrey school of thought.

When Sheila Jeffrey was scheduled to headline at Radfem 2012 and they had to cancel the entire conference due to all the bad press this created, I can't help thinking there's a fairly large group of anti-trans bigots who call themselves feminists or at least they have what appears to be a big foothold among organized radfems.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #40)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 10:50 AM

41. If you think that 20 people is a large percentage of 3.4 billion women I don't know what to say.

It seems to me that some people are intent on feeling victimized. Don't expect me to buy into it, though.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #41)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 03:19 PM

43. Not sure where you're getting those numbers

I'd be very surprised if even .1% of women have ever called themselves a feminist, much less 100% and Sheila Jeffreys alone has a following that is much larger than 20, and she's not the only radfem anti-trans out there with a soapbox. The books she writes are covered by major publishers and are purchased by thousands of people. Many more are giving her and people like her an audience. There are several radfem blogs and web sites that harbor anti-trans views. I don't think there are 20 people out there keeping those things alive. So you're really talking many thousands out of a population of a few million. The LGBT community is victimized constantly and no more so than transsexuals. They are intent on feeling victimized because they are victimized. Note all the positive comments offered for Jeffrey's essay, which can only be considered the manifestation of hate. The few that dared to disagree with it were roundly bashed.

http://radicalhub.com/2011/05/31/guest-post-sheila-jeffreys/

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #43)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 03:24 PM

44. I personally think it's maybe a small elevator or broom closet full of people, max

talking to themselves.

When they got kicked out of Conway Hall they brought in Dines and Jeffreys to do "Keynote" speeches in front of a crowd that was, maybe, 10 people.

A big turnout by Glenn Beck/Teabag standards, maybe.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #44)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 03:43 PM

45. Sheila Jeffreys alone commands a worldwide audience

Were it not for the transsexual community organizing opposition against her, she would be speaking at far more conferences than she already does. The Radfem 2012 conference was organized right in her home town. There certainly seems to be no shortage of people who want to hear that garbage. Someone has to be buying her books and attending her lectures and she's not the only one doing it. Janice Raymond was promoting anti-trans hate all the way back in the 70's. The Michigan Womyn's Music Festival, has had a woman-born-woman only policy for over 20 years. While I'm sure those with anti-trans views are a minority even within the radfem community, I can't believe such hateful thoughts are just an aberration of a vocal few.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #45)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 05:04 PM

47. How many of these people are there?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022404818

”Can’t that disgusting whore Linderborg just lie down and die?”

“She is such a whore, that bitch seems to be completely deranged. Lock the hooker in an mental asylum and throw away the key.”

“Swedes hate you, you feminist communist asshole.”

Then came the threats.

“It wouldn't surprise me if this whore ends up with a price on her head soon.”

“Åsa Linderborg should be taken out of action. Permanently.”

”It’s happened before that a propagandizing cockroach or a pig who’s hostile to Swedes has been recognized on the street or in a department store”.

(Editor’s note: Swedish Prime Minister Olof Palme was gunned down and killed in the street in 1986. Foreign Minister Anna Lindh was stabbed in a Stockholm department store in 2003 and died from her wounds.)

Yet another person writes that it’s not difficult to find me, before posting my address: ”This is where she lives.”

It is November 30th, 2012. The culture pages of the tabloid Aftonbladet, which I edit, have just begun publishing a series of investigative reports into far-right websites in Sweden.

The threats start coming.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #47)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 05:18 PM

48. It's not a contest. Hate is hate, and it should all be roundly condemned.

I don't think you'll find many people making excuses for the "community" responsible for that shit, here on DU, though. If you do, let me know. I certainly wouldn't put up with it in this group.

Shiela Jeffreys and Gail Dines and their ilk still have their pals and defenders. Because in some corners, it's considered "progressive" to hate dooooooodz, or to imagine that theresnosuchthingasconsenttosexbecausepatriarchythatswhy.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #48)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 05:22 PM

50. It's a fair question. If I'm going to be browbeaten because "lots of" feminists say hateful things

then I think it is fair and reasonable of me to ask how many men say hateful things against women.

We can either stop the ridiculous accusations or divvy them up based on actual frequency. I believe that there are probably a greater number of men in the world saying hateful things against women than vice-versa. It's not something I would start an OP about.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #50)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 05:25 PM

52. I don't believe lots of feminists say hateful things about men, personally.

For what it's worth.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #47)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 05:21 PM

49. I'm not really down with the idea that hate can justify hate

I don't suspect you are either. As such I don't see how this is relevant. I don't see anyone questioning there are those out there who hate women in general and more specifically feminists. I certainly wouldn't. This is also coming from the extreme far right where hate of all sorts of people(including LGBT) is nothing new.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #45)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 05:23 PM

51. Eh, I'm not seeing it.

Worldwide audience maybe meaning one person in the Australian Outback, one in Texas, and one in Liverpool.

I just think that you have a dwindling group of aging people who are perpetually frustrated that their tautological, axiomatic, gibberish-laden bullshit- which to them makes PERFECT sense- never really caught on. Sort of like how those Stalinist group meetings are getting pretty lonely, along with the Esperanto Speakers' Clubs. (Telling 7 Billion People that the way most of them like to have sex is WRONG WRONG WRONG? Hmmm, who could have thought that notion wouldn't sell like hotcakes?) Like the whiny MRA people; these folks would be unhappy anyway~ so now they have the internet so they can talk to other, similarly unhappy people. As far as making new converts? Doubtful.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #51)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 05:49 PM

54. I have no doubt their population is waning

People have less stomach for this kind of shit today. However these people have been around for at least the last 30 years and the very best you can say is large segments of the feminist community have been quite slow to condemn them, if they ever do at all. The organized resistance to these ideas is mostly coming from the LGBT community.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #54)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 05:56 PM

55. Part of it is, I think the mainstream "Feminist Community" doesn't give a shit about the extremists.

That's part of what drives them so fucking bonkers. They imagine they speak for "real" Feminism, and sit there screeching "BUT DWORKIN SAID..." and meanwhile, the rest of the world is like, "...I'm sorry, who?"

Crap, half the people who watched the Olympics didn't know who Paul McCartney is. Dworkin, MacKinnon, Solanas, and the rest of 'em don't even register as a friggin' blip on mainstream Feminist thought. Because Mainstream Feminists (meaning most everyone) are concerned with things like equal rights. Equal pay. Reproductive freedom. Keeping shitwits like Todd Akin out of the Senate.

Not with battling the great space phallus conspiracy and its minions of trans-filtration units plotting to vampire-suck womyn's "gynergy" (and no, I'm not making that up)

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #55)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 06:05 PM

56. To her credit, Dworkin was on the right side of this one

I'm not sure how much effort she put into condemning the anti-trans feminists, but she certainly didn't ally with them. I understand what you're saying about feminist apathy towards extremist views, but this is not really unique to feminism and happens in all sorts of ideologies.

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Response to Bonobo (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 03:14 PM

16. Here is the "rationalwiki" article on radfemhub:

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #16)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 04:48 PM

21. Yikes!

No doubt a fun group to hang with at a party.

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Response to Bonobo (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 03:47 PM

46. Does it matter?

It seems to a recurring theme here. I'm not trying to disparage anyone who participates in these discussions, I have/do.

I think it gives the whole thing too much power. There are hate groups out there for all kinds of people. I think ignoring these groups makes them go away, because it's no fun if they get no reaction.

Someone I trust keeps telling me not
to obsess on bad stuff in life, to concentrate on the good. I know she is right, even though I have a very hard time following this advice at times.

Maybe we need to talk about ordinary things here, family and friends, activities and hobbies, our jobs, our day, whatever. That's not to say we can't have deeper conversations about bigger issues, but I think relating so much to one issue isn't healthy for us, either.

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Response to Denninmi (Reply #46)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 07:28 PM

57. I think it does.

My familiarity with the kind of radfem thought illustrated in the OP is mostly from DU.

The practical effect of that rhetoric is a whole raft of really destructive social beliefs.

We each have all manner of prosaic interests like family, hobbies and careers. But this one it affects our ability to enjoy the rest.

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Response to Bonobo (Original post)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 02:40 PM

59. What a bigoted asshole.

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