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Mon Feb 11, 2013, 01:21 AM

An(other) unwarranted attack.

In the parenting group, I made my first post ever.

You see, my youngest child, my daughter, is going to start college in a month or so and I am already beginning to feel how terribly I will miss her.

So I started an OP there -and heaven's forbid- in trying to show how precious to me, I referred to her as my "baby".

Right away, I get attacked by someone for "not respecting" my daughter and being a sexist by calling her a "baby".

I am sure I don't need to tell any parents here that out children remain, in a sense, our "babies" forever and I also refer to/think of my 2 sons in the same way.

But, on top of that, would anyone attack a mother for "not respecting" their children by calling the "my babies"?

I don't think so, and that too is a perfect example of the kind of shit that men have to deal with.

35 replies, 2318 views

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Arrow 35 replies Author Time Post
Reply An(other) unwarranted attack. (Original post)
Bonobo Feb 2013 OP
MrSlayer Feb 2013 #1
Bonobo Feb 2013 #3
Downwinder Feb 2013 #2
Bonobo Feb 2013 #4
Behind the Aegis Feb 2013 #5
Bonobo Feb 2013 #6
Behind the Aegis Feb 2013 #7
Bonobo Feb 2013 #8
Behind the Aegis Feb 2013 #9
Denninmi Feb 2013 #28
Behind the Aegis Feb 2013 #10
Bonobo Feb 2013 #11
sigmasix Feb 2013 #12
Bonobo Feb 2013 #13
sigmasix Feb 2013 #15
Bonobo Feb 2013 #16
NRA_SUCKS Feb 2013 #21
lumberjack_jeff Feb 2013 #23
sigmasix Feb 2013 #32
Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #29
sigmasix Feb 2013 #30
Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #31
sigmasix Feb 2013 #33
sigmasix Feb 2013 #34
Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #35
Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #14
Bonobo Feb 2013 #19
RevStPatrick Feb 2013 #17
Bonobo Feb 2013 #18
Aristus Feb 2013 #20
NRA_SUCKS Feb 2013 #22
ProudToBeBlueInRhody Feb 2013 #24
Major Nikon Feb 2013 #25
Trajan Feb 2013 #26
Taverner Feb 2013 #27

Response to Bonobo (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 01:43 AM

1. My daughter will be 20 in May.

 

And she's still my baby. She'll always be my baby. Don't let the über sensitive, look for any reason to be offended crowd make you feel like you're wrong. They don't live your life and they don't feel what you feel. Fuck them.

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 01:51 AM

3. Thanks, brother!

Mine is 18. She is the world to me and I respect her tremendously as a person but it doesn't mean that sometimes when she is sleeping, for example, that I can't still see the baby in her face.

I will hold that forever and I pity someone that can't appreciate the beauty in that.

Yes, fuck them.

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Response to Bonobo (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 01:51 AM

2. My "baby" is 40 years old

and is at M.D. Anderson right now for a consultation. It never gets any easier.

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Response to Downwinder (Reply #2)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 01:52 AM

4. Oh no!

I wanted you to tell me it gets easier!

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Response to Bonobo (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 01:53 AM

5. How fucking absurd!

I am 43, 44 in May. Both my parents still call me their baby on occasion. I am the oldest of four and my mother has said; "until the day I die, you will always be my baby. I don't care old you get!"

I am sorry you got shat upon when you were simply asking for advice on separation anxiety. I can't tell you about that issue as far as children, as I have none. I am sure some of the dads here, though, may have some words of wisdom. I can tell you, it will take time, as with any loss, and that is what it is, a loss. It is also OK to grieve the loss and the change that is occurring.

I hope she enjoys college!! Remind her, she is there to get a degree! LOL! So many like to really go wild, and I say this as someone who was a college administrator/counselor for 15 years.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 01:56 AM

6. Thanks for that.

Yeah, it is a loss and I guess I need to give myself the room to go through the grieving process even though it is not like it is death.

I think I have not been willing to allow myself to think of it like that but I should be more honest and give myself the room and forgiveness to feel what I feel.

Thanks.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #6)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 01:59 AM

7. You should always be allowed to feel.

Sometimes we don't know how to feel about things, and it can be quite draining and confusing. IMO, for men, it can be even worse because we are taught so many conflicting things about "feelings." You only need be honest with yourself, as you said, but with your loved ones as well, because they can also provide comfort.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #7)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 02:03 AM

8. That too is hard.

For example, I feel like I can't show my wife and other members of the family my sadness about it because I feel that I am supposed to be the one who takes the burdens off others and supports THEM.

This, as you said, is a role that has been saddled on men in large part and one that is hard to break free from if, like me, you were raised in the "traditional structure"... where Dad's don't feel or show they feel so much.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #8)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 02:12 AM

9. It is difficult, and uncomfortable to break away from that stereotypical male role.

I have only seen my father cry three times, twice when he thought one of his children (my two youngest brothers) were going to die and when my great-grandmother on my mom's side passed away.. He didn't cry when his parents died. Surgery? Nope! Didn't see or hear about his "worries" or "concerns." However, that has changed over the past few years. He is much more open. It takes courage, and preparation, because others will also have to adjust.

It is harder to keep those emotions in. As mom says, "there is more room out, then there is in."

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 04:16 PM

28. Well, I guess there is an advantage to being crazy.

After 10 years of psychotherapy, I'm really in touch with my feelings, and have no problem expressing myself. Yes, I cry, often, I guess it goes with the territory. Both good and bad, I need to toughen
up because too many things upset me.

Still, I prefer this to being stone with
no emotion.

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Response to Bonobo (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 02:32 AM

10. OT: Gonna add to your "rant"!

I just came across a post about LGBT rights and the OP got fussed at in the very first post because it was a "spoiler" for a goddamned TV show the person hadn't been keeping up with! Naw, better to kvetch about a spoiler than the fact in 2013 gays are fired in this country as they were in Edwardian England! That "wooshing" sound y'all heard? It was the point flying over someone's head!


ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 02:36 AM

11. Perspective.

I can understand the frustration. Like the first responder to this OP said to me above, fuck them.

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Response to Bonobo (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 02:38 AM

12. neofeminists are as bad as other extremists

DU has some man haters that disguise themselves as feminists. As a rule, I just tune them out. You will find that, akin to President Obama's attempts to woo teabaggers and faux "news" trolls, there's nothing you can do or say that won't be contorted and misrepresented by those that see you as the enemy because of your gender. And this is thier narrative to advance. Mind you, it is a very small percentage of DU feminists- they hide amongst mainstream feminism until they see an opportunity to advance extremist, anti-male positions and outlandishly contorted rationals for declaring most male actions, bahaviour and intellectual activity an excercise in dominance and power. Any progressive with an ounce of morality will recognize these people for what they are; hate-filled and inspired extremists with anti-progressive, anti-egalitarian sexist aims and ideaologies.
But, like I said- they are small in number when compared to intelligent, fair-minded progressives of both genders that are struggling daily to articulate the feminist critique of western history, culture and politics- while also attempting to energize and empower the movement for equal rights for women.
Every once in a while men have to deal with this kind of outright demeaning and degrading attitude and treatment from one of these extremists. The "dudes" that condone out-right, purile sexist stupidity- while claiming to be progressive are much greater in number- and slimey about some of the stuff they post, too!- so having a thick skin about this subject is suggested. Sometimes people are lied to and hurt so often that they require a bit of time before they lower thier gaurds; perhaps the woman with the toxic response had a bad experience with someone that used the same pet name for one of thier female victims and she is transferring the guilt to you because of the psychic comfort it brings her to confront one of "those men"- no matter how mis-guided her actions and intentions. You can be understanding and forgiving towards her, but not the deplorable character assasination and suppositions she has made about your relationship with your daughter in that short sentence.
Anyway- it seems to me that she gave away more about her own sexist worldview with her accusations about you, than anything else.
I had a discussion on DU a while back with a couple neo feminsits that tried to claim that men should not be allowed to be in the feminist movement because of thier gender, yet they claimed- with righteous manufactured indignity- that denying a man a job or position of leadership in a social justice organization, because of his gender- rather than qualifications- isn't sexism; rather they excused this form of bigotry as based in some sort of psyiological difference between human gender that prevents men from understanding feminism and social justice.
I don't need to point out the inanity and cruelty of this position though- when they use thier 1st amendment they sometimes reveal thier attitude towards real fairness and expose the extent and toxicity of thier hatred for human males.
Yaay freedom of speech!

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Response to sigmasix (Reply #12)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 02:45 AM

13. Nice post.

Perhaps the most tragic thing about it is how easy it is for those extremist hiding as you say is the damage it does to the overall reputation of the group they are hiding in --sort of like militants hiding among the general population as they fire missiles or whatever. They invite attack and make their own in-group look worse.

The only thing that can be done is for such groups to ostracize that kind of extremist when they spot them, I guess.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #13)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 03:56 AM

15. my point as well

I do my level best to call-out men that are guilty of misogyny and sexism of all kinds- especially the super creeps that hate, despise and fear strong women- but, because I am a male feminist, i'm not allowed to do the same thing with these neo-feminists, without being accused of being a "dude" (pejoritive term for men used by feminist extremists)- this fact speaks volumes about the need for more true progressives in the feminist school of thought and movement. It also underlines the urgency involved demanding the excommunication of the wolves in feminist clothing that sometimes do so much to divide men and women in our collective pursuit of a more just, equitable society. We have to work together to accomplish our goals, but those working on tearing us down- through sexist animus and extremism are not the ones to work with or trust. In fact, they need to be weeded out and tossed in the dustbin

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Response to sigmasix (Reply #15)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 04:01 AM

16. I have seen the "Dude" thrown out there to offend.

As if it is not the same thing as saying "Chick" or calling women "Girls"

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Response to sigmasix (Reply #12)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:40 AM

21. The problem is it feels like the haters are the majority here

 

that the extreme feminists are in the majority.
I know logically and statistically that can't be the case, but they seem to have an inordinate amount of power.
how stupid is it that i'm literally afraid to post anything ANYWHERE, especially in the men's group, for fear of being anonymously reported on and my account deleted with no explanation of why.

I saw that 4ths law of robotics was tombstoned, and for why? he has like 12k posts. he was clearly a respected regular on DU not some troll. it's insane, this place is not safe to have an opinion... why did that happen? Why is it allowed to continue?

and no, i'm not 4th law. I am not a robot in disguise.

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Response to sigmasix (Reply #12)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:47 AM

23. This is actually easy to reconcile.

I had a discussion on DU a while back with a couple neo feminsits that tried to claim that men should not be allowed to be in the feminist movement because of thier gender, yet they claimed- with righteous manufactured indignity- that denying a man a job or position of leadership in a social justice organization, because of his gender- rather than qualifications- isn't sexism; rather they excused this form of bigotry as based in some sort of psyiological difference between human gender that prevents men from understanding feminism and social justice.


This is only confusing if you think feminism is about equality. It's not. It's about advocacy for women's interests.

The easiest test for this premise is to ask feminists what should be done about the gender inequality in education. The answer of course, is nothing of any substance.

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #23)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:30 AM

32. women's movement isnt feminism

feminism is not the "women's movement"; it is a form of post modern social and philosophical critique that features critisism informed by the experiences and view-points of women and other historically dehumanized and objectified groups. If feminism can be called a rights group, then said group should be working towards universal egalitarianism, as a solution to the troubles caused by all forms of sexism. Like Christianity and the modern American conservative political movement- there are those that claim to be feminists working towards fairness and justice that are neither.
Forgive my spelling, I'm using my blackberry.

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Response to sigmasix (Reply #12)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 01:56 PM

29. Your post confuses me; are you saying freedom of speech is a bad thing?

Last edited Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:29 AM - Edit history (2)

I have to disagree with you, strongly, there. Freedom of speech- including the freedom to espouse asinine opinions - is the cornerstone of liberty.

In fact, in my experience, giving asinine opinion-spouters the freedom to out themselves is the best way to establish who they are and what they're up to. Especially the duplictious game-players.

As an aside, please don't post statements like "man-haters on DU" in this group. I realize you're not one of our more regular posters here, however in my experience those sort of statements have a way of being used later on in attempts to tar or otherwise categorize attitudes of the group as a whole. Your understanding on this is appreciated.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #29)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:14 AM

30. no

I'm saying that freedom of speech allows us to understand the mind of extremists. We get to know the true feelings and intentions of misogynysts, racists, homophobes or misandarists, every time they practice thier freedom of speech. This is a good thing. One of the reasons I am an ardent supporter of the freedom of speech. Hate-filled people are sometimes dumb enough to vocalize thier hate, sort of a warning to reasonable people around them.

What word should I use? Isn't hatred of the male gender one of the components of this type of extremism? Teabaggers don't like being called Teabaggers, either.

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Response to sigmasix (Reply #30)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:21 AM

31. Please refer to the pinned "regarding any & all disputes" thread for more information.

Certain types of rhetoric have proven problematic in the past, and led to problems the groups are trying to keep from recurring.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #31)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:34 AM

33. thanks for the head's up

In the future I will use alternate verbage.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #31)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:34 AM

34. thanks for the head's up

In the future I will use alternate verbage.

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Response to sigmasix (Reply #34)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:46 AM

35. No prob.

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Response to Bonobo (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 02:53 AM

14. That is ridiculous.

I would respond with exactly what you've said, here.

If they're not your babies, forever, you're doing it wrong IMHO.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #14)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 08:47 AM

19. My babies, boys and girls. Until the day I die. nt

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Response to Bonobo (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 08:45 AM

17. I would suspect that that one...

 

...has no cubs of her own.
Only someone who is, and most likely intends to stay childless, would act that way.
Ignore her, she's not worth the energy.

Good luck to your baby!!!

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Response to RevStPatrick (Reply #17)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 08:47 AM

18. Thank you for the kind words. nt

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Response to Bonobo (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:34 AM

20. Wow, did you ever get attacked unfairly for that...

How in the world could calling one's precious child "baby" be upsetting to some? I think it's sweet, and a sign of boundless love and affection.

I don't have any children of my own, but my stepdaughters have given me grandchildren. I call them all sorts of affectionate names.

When my first grandson was little, I had a bit of doubt in what I called him. I think grandfathers are supposed to call their grandsons things like "slugger", "tiger", "champ", "buddy", etc. I called my grandson "baby", "sweetheart" and "darling". I still call him "sweetheart" even though he is 12 now, and never in front of his friends.

You call your daughter whatever suits your heart to call her. And to hell with anyone who objects...

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Response to Aristus (Reply #20)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:45 AM

22. With all the hate men get for "not being around"

 

you'd think they'd be happy that one was so involved with his child he has separation anxiety.
the hypocrisy on the other side is staggering at times.
I don't have children, and probably never will at this point in life (nearly 38) but that isn't to say I don't understand the OP's feelings.
I can only say, that's what smart phones and skype is for =]

It should help the separation anxiety on both sides.

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Response to Bonobo (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 01:34 PM

24. Eh, it sucks

Some people really need to get a life.

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Response to Bonobo (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 02:19 PM

25. My wife still calls our children her babies

I don't. It's not that I see anything wrong with it, I just don't call them that for whatever reason. I can still remember the first time I held them as babies and I still see them in that way.

Criticizing this is the height of absurdity, along with criticizing the calling of adult children girls or boys. Parents will always see their children as they were along with what they are and what they can be.

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Response to Bonobo (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 02:29 PM

26. DU can be a stupid place ...

or, more correctly stated, DU can be populated with stupid people ... proven time and time again ...

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Response to Bonobo (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 03:19 PM

27. Sounds like it came from an angry teenager...

 

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