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Mon Dec 10, 2012, 11:36 PM

for non-custodial fathers

I am not a man, but I have some understanding of the sorrows that many non-custodial fathers endure, and I want to recommend an activist group to any here who seek community and information. Fathers and Families is the name of the organization. They have a facebook presence and a web site. Currently, they are about to begin an initiative to ask citizens to address the issue of bias against fathers in the family court systems by contacting legislators. (And yes, I am also sympathetic to single moms, but have come to learn that there truly is a bias in family courts against non-custodial dads and visitation.)

12 replies, 1660 views

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Arrow 12 replies Author Time Post
Reply for non-custodial fathers (Original post)
grasswire Dec 2012 OP
naaman fletcher Dec 2012 #1
grasswire Dec 2012 #2
naaman fletcher Dec 2012 #3
lumberjack_jeff Dec 2012 #4
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #5
lumberjack_jeff Dec 2012 #6
naaman fletcher Dec 2012 #8
Major Nikon Dec 2012 #9
opiate69 Dec 2012 #11
lumberjack_jeff Dec 2012 #12
Upton Dec 2012 #10
Major Nikon Dec 2012 #7

Response to grasswire (Original post)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 04:01 PM

1. I am a man, why are you linking to those right wing assholes? nt

 

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Response to naaman fletcher (Reply #1)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 06:17 PM

2. Where do you get any inkling that fathersandfamilies.org is RW??

I have been following them for several years and have never, never seen any such bias.

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Response to grasswire (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 07:58 PM

3. here you go..

 

FYI, I voted to leave it:


for non-custodial fathers
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11145878

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

The organization referred to is a right wing, reactionary organization headed by Glenn Sacks. He has been praised by Michelle Malkin for his work in fighting against domestic violence shelters. Links for references below

Here, they trash NOW for actually knowing what they're talking about.
http://www.fathersandfamilies.org/2012/07/02/nows-opposition-to-pas-inclusion-in-dsm-v-anti-science-anti-dad-anti-mom-anti-child/

Here they express their shock that scientists didn't cave to right-wing pressure.
http://www.fathersandfamilies.org/2012/09/26/apa-rejects-pas-for-dsm/


A revealing look at the founder, Glenn Sacks
http://www.glennsacks.com/enewsletters/enews_12_29_04.htm
http://www.amptoons.com/blog/2008/12/04/domestic-violence-shelter-targeted-by-anti-feminists-some-of-the-vile-language-and-verbal-abuse-we-took-on-the-phone-was-horrific/


And the "fathers rights" movement in general.
http://www.bostonmagazine.com/articles/2012/08/angry-men-feminist-agenda/



You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Dec 11, 2012, 03:00 PM, and the Jury voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I said leave it alone because despite their being right wing hacks, it is not clear to me that linking to right wing hacks like this is a violation of standards. Why not just point out that they are right wing hacks as part of the debate?

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

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Response to naaman fletcher (Reply #3)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 08:14 PM

4. Thank you for voting to leave it. n/t

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Response to grasswire (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 08:47 PM

5. Because they are, as is Glenn Sacks

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 09:48 PM

6. The jury disagrees with you too. n/t

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #6)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 12:17 AM

8. they jury didn't vote on if they were right wing assholes

 

The jury voted on weather or not the post violated the community standards. I think they are right wing assholes and still voted to leave it alone.

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Response to naaman fletcher (Reply #8)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 04:10 AM

9. I'm not sure how you came to that determination, but the alerter's case is pretty weak

I don't know that much about the organization in question. Perhaps they are right wing assholes, but I just can't get there from what the alerter posted.

The alerter trashed them for being at odds with NOW, which does not speak for the left wing, so I'm not sure how being at odds with them makes F&F right wing. The subject of PAS is far from being decided. It was discussed by this group here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1114&pid=5182

I posted a very revealing insight into the anti-PAS smear campaign, seemingly headed by NOW here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1114&pid=5287

So the first two charges made by the alerter don't seem to hold much water.

The alerter lists a lot of information about Glenn Sacks, who was never a founder of F&F nor is he currently leading the organization. He is listed as a former director on the organization's web site. The wiki article on him says nothing about him being right wing. He may be frequently quoted by sources who are right wing, but he's also quoted by many who definitely aren't. The case on him being "right wing" seems to be pretty weak and made almost exclusively in guilt by association examples or his opposition to a few things supported by NOW. Even if one could make this case (and I'm not sure it can be made), it still only amounts to a guilt by association in regards to F&F.

The final link is very telling if you care to dig into it very deeply. The writer of the article (which gives all the appearances of one-sidedness and bias) never suggests that F&F is a right wing organization. The Massachusetts bill it talks about (but mysteriously doesn't name) that is supported by F&F was authored by a Democrat and most of its co-sponsors are Democrats:
http://www.malegislature.gov/Bills/187/House/H02684/Miscellaneous

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 10:24 AM

11. Great research, Major

Hopefully it won`t fall on deaf ears.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 08:11 PM

12. +1 n/t

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Response to naaman fletcher (Reply #8)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 08:50 AM

10. I've never heard of them before..

however, F&F claims to be non-partisan, and the vision laid out in their mission statement seems reasonable..

Fathers and Families’ vision is a society in which

Children are happier and more successful because their loving bonds are protected after parental separation or divorce;
Children have a natural right to be nurtured and guided by both parents;
Society treats fathers and mothers as equally important to the wellbeing of their children;
Shared parenting after separation or divorce is the norm;
The courts arrange finances after separation or divorce whenever possible so that both mothers and fathers can afford to house and care for their children and themselves;
Our society understands and respects the essential role of fathers.

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Response to naaman fletcher (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 12:05 AM

7. Here's what wiki has to say about them...

Fathers & Families is an American family court reform organization dedicated to their stated goal to improve "the lives of children and strengthens society by protecting the child’s right to the love and care of both parents after separation or divorce." Fathers & Families advocates for the presumption of joint custody in divorce proceedings and for a variety of other father's rights oriented causes. As perhaps the premier father's advocacy group in the United States, Fathers & Families has been cited numerous times by newspapers such as The New York Times, The Christian Science Monitor, and television specials on NPR and PBS, among other outlets.

Fathers & Families was founded in 1994 as the Foundation for Fathers and Families by Ned Holstein, M.D., M.S., John Cristofano, John Maguire, and Phil Clendenning. In 2002, the organization's name was shortened to "Fathers & Families." The organization is based out of Massachusetts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fathers_and_families

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