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Mon Nov 12, 2012, 10:42 AM

 

The average age of entry to prostitution is 12

This is a 'fact' often repeated by certain members on here to argue against prostitution.

And if repetition made it true this stat would be undeniable.


However, despite repeated requests no citation of this has ever been offered. Usually such requests lead to the stat being repeated with an accusation against the individual asking thrown in.

Now this isn't necessarily a mens issue except it seems to be done intentionally to smear men as deviants and abusers (the same stat is used for porn which then implicates most men).

So my question is this: has anyone seen anything to back this or is it just a fiction some have pushed to back their arguments while bashing males?

/there are legitimate issues worth discussing about prostitution. I support the rights of adults to do as they please with their bodies while recognizing that doesn't mean it's going to be all sunshine and roses. So i'm not asking about those other issues. Just this one claim that seems to me to be entirely bogus.

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Arrow 18 replies Author Time Post
Reply The average age of entry to prostitution is 12 (Original post)
4th law of robotics Nov 2012 OP
4th law of robotics Nov 2012 #1
ProudToBeBlueInRhody Nov 2012 #2
4th law of robotics Nov 2012 #8
LadyHawkAZ Nov 2012 #3
4th law of robotics Nov 2012 #4
LadyHawkAZ Nov 2012 #5
4th law of robotics Nov 2012 #6
LadyHawkAZ Nov 2012 #7
4th law of robotics Nov 2012 #9
libodem Nov 2012 #10
4th law of robotics Nov 2012 #11
Cayenne Nov 2012 #13
4th law of robotics Nov 2012 #14
Cayenne Nov 2012 #15
4th law of robotics Nov 2012 #17
Warren DeMontague Nov 2012 #12
Major Nikon Nov 2012 #16
4th law of robotics Nov 2012 #18

Response to 4th law of robotics (Original post)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 10:43 AM

1. Posted from my phone

 

So any weird spellings are probably autocorrect errors I missed.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Original post)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 11:59 AM

2. Maybe in the totally unregulated world of Thailand and such places....

....again, the people who repeatedly say things like this are having a completely different argument from those who advocate decriminalization and regulation of sex work. And they aren't finding argument here, just trying to extrapolate.

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Response to ProudToBeBlueInRhody (Reply #2)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 11:39 AM

8. Apparently it's from one, unsourced, study looking only at underage sex-trafficking victims

 

so yeah, the average age for this subset of kidnapped children is pretty low.

That however is in no way representative of anything else.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Original post)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 09:40 PM

3. 1) it's 13, not 12

Last edited Tue Nov 13, 2012, 09:47 PM - Edit history (2)

2) the citation, while repeated everywhere as the average age of entry in general, is actually the average age of entry for those entering as minors, applies only to minor girls, and is sourced from one particular study. This report was where the figure originated, giving the age of entry for girls as 12-14 years and boys/transgender as 11-13 years. But that is only for those surveyed who either entered or were trafficked in as minors.

ETA because my wording was unclear, this is not the actual age of entry in the US, even for minors. See post #7.

A good breakdown on the math with the inclusion of other, contradictory studies can be found here: http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/2011/11/27/the-law-of-averages/. You might enjoy the rest of the blog too. I did.

HTH.

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Response to LadyHawkAZ (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 10:51 PM

4. Ah, that makes far more sense

 

so the repeated claim that the average prostitute starts at 12 (really 13) is completely inaccurate.

The average *child* prostitute starts at that age. And those are a subset of the total.

Now I see how they were able to come up with that stat.

Entirely unethical to conflate all prostitutes with those that are trafficked underage.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 10:53 PM

5. Entirely unethical to conflate trafficking with prostitution, period

but they still peddle that, and people still buy it. 'Cuz sex is gross and hookers are icky sluts, ya know.

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Response to LadyHawkAZ (Reply #5)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 10:57 PM

6. Indeed

 

Generally speaking if you have to rely on intentionally misrepresenting the data to get your point across your point probably isn't worth getting across.

Attempting to convince people that trafficked child sex slaves are representative of all prostitutes smacks of the rightwing studies that scour the news looking for homosexual couples that abuse their kids as proof that they are all unfit parents. Sure such cases exist, but they aren't representative.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #4)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 12:12 AM

7. Also...

from the article:

"Though Estes & Weiner didn’t share their data the charts provided by the anti-prostitute organization Shared Hope International (which seems to be the original source of the distortion from “the average underage prostitute” to “the average prostitute”) demonstrate (as Emi calculates) an average of 15.91, three years higher than their verbal claims and slightly higher than the average reported by the John Jay study, which was 15.15 for girls and 15.28 for boys. Incidentally, it also found that only 15% of teen hookers entered the trade at an age below 13, which absolutely demolishes any notion of 13 as “average”."

With the caveat that the Jay study covered only New York City and the SHI study covered 10 cities in the States, it would appear from the statistics they gathered that 13 is an inaccurate number for the US, with the 15-16 age range being the correct one. The University of Pennsylvania sampled from the US, Mexico and Canada; there would have to be a massive amount of extremely young children being trafficked in Canada and Mexico to skew the age range that far, so I don't know what they found, or where, to give them that number. Links to all the reports are there if you want to read them.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 11:40 AM

9. It's interesting that no one who uses this stat has weighed in

 

they are welcome to and I would encourage them to defend its use.

I know that they read this forum given that just about every new post is alerted on at least once.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:56 PM

10. yes that seems to

Co-inside far more with child sex trafficking. That is not a decision made by the child. It is made for them without their consent. If they are under the age of consent they were forced into it. Even at eighteen, kids are still so immature. God.

What happens between two consenting ADULTS is no one else's business. Sex is one thing, tho.
Violence and coersion deserve a rescue if possible.

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Response to libodem (Reply #10)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 05:23 PM

11. Oh to be certain: child sex-trafficking is a problem

 

that needs to be addressed and I'll make no excuses for those who perpetuate it (at either end of the transaction).

But to me it's the difference between rape and sex. Anyone who tried to argue against adults having sex with each other by citing rape statistics is being intentionally obtuse. They share some outward similarities but really they're entirely different issues.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #11)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 01:51 PM

13. I wonder

Not a single child prostitute was rescued during the last Superbowl. We were assured there would be about 40,000 trafficked prostitutes with at least half being minors. The police dragnet pulled up exactly zero girls and just the usual number of adults from prostitution stings.

In light of these monstrous exaggerations how big do you really think it is?

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Response to Cayenne (Reply #13)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 04:53 PM

14. I think the extent of it is greatly overexaggerated

 

for various reasons (out of genuine concern, ignorance, and petty selfish reasons).

However I'd say that even 1 case is worthy of concern.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #14)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 08:23 PM

15. Prop35 was the result of trafficking hysteria

Fortunately it does not look like it will pass constitutional muster. But still, the potential for damaging poeple with bad laws is illustrated when these exaggerations are not challenged, but that challenges the facts must be a kiddie fiddler.

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Response to Cayenne (Reply #15)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 11:40 PM

17. I must admit I'm not familiar with prop 35

 

could you elaborate?

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 09:19 PM

12. There are a few things you can set your fucking clock by, they're so damn dependable.

One is, in a discussion around controlling the behavior of consenting adults, the authoritarians who support telling other consenting adults what consenting adult shit they can get into, again, all among consenting adults, will INVARIABLY fall back on arguments that involve non-consent, or non-adults, or both. I don't care if it's porn, locking up pot smokers, or people exchanging sex for money. Every time.

The other, really goofy sort of "logic" that gets played in these arguments, is the idea that men are all apparently just a hair's breadth away from wanting to abuse kids; really, all it takes is watching a porn with a woman who has shaved, or listening to an evo psych argument, even

and -ZOINKS!- Instant molester!

It's really like the nutty concept which floats around right-wing fundy circles, which says that it is only laws or societal proscriptions against gay sex which keep most men from screwing around with other men.

The REALITY is, statistically, most people are wired to be attracted to adults of the opposite gender. Some, about 10% or so, are wired to be attracted to adults of the same gender. Now, sexuality is a spectrum and people fall all along it, but more or less, that's how normal adult sexuality works.

Then there are the deeply sick individuals who are wired to be attracted to kids. What can be done about them, other than permanently separating them from the rest of humanity, I don't know (hiding in the Priesthood sure doesn't seem to work) ... but there is no "muddying of the lines"; adults, normal adults, are attracted to other adults- and no amount of "programming" through porn or ads on cable or girlfriends shaving, is going to re-progran them to be abusers. Any more than you can re-program gay people to be straight, another conceit of these right wing fundamentalists and their apologists.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #12)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 09:19 PM

16. To be fair...

I don't remember the religious right telling people specifically how they should be fucking, at least since the 16th century anyway.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #16)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 02:08 PM

18. Missionary position

 

lights off, eyes closed.

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