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Fri Nov 9, 2012, 10:44 PM

The idea that sexism only works one direction just doesn't fucking wash

And yes, I think I've seen enough of the arguments against this idea to go ahead and make this call. It's bullshit, folks. It just is.

I've heard about how men as a group have never been denied the right to vote, therefore it's OK if women call men things like "limp dicks" (as seen on DU) all the way to the truly fucking nutty idea that misandry is just a made up word that doesn't and can't possibly exist. And don't get me wrong, this is not one of those threads where the OP whines incessantly about sexism because frankly you could fill rooms with the shits I don't give about someone calling Rush Limbaugh a "limp dick" (as seen on DU). Neither am I advocating for anyone to use gender slurs of any type. What I've come to whine about is the fact that such a gender specific epithet can be thrown around at men all day long on DU with little more than the threat of a hidden post (rarely), yet if I were to make such demeaning references to the operation (or lack thereof) of a female sexual organ, I'm pretty darn sure there would be a strong possibility I'd be eating pizza for dinner (and rightly so).

There's some folks on DU that I may not agree with on many things, but at least I can respect the fact that they have ONE set of standards they apply to everyone when it comes to sexism. There's no such thing as one-way sexism. 'Reverse sexism' is a meaningless term. There is only sexism. My message to those who think sexism only works one direction is that you have ceased to be what I'd call a reasonable person on this subject. My message to those who want to complain about someone calling Ann Coulter another word for vagina is where were you and your alert button all those times when people were casting aspersions on Rush Limbaugh's sexual organs? Because if your mission in life is to clean up all the society-destroying runaway sexism on a left-biased message board (and for some I have to believe it is), that would probably be a great place to start. If you choose not to do so, then I'm probably not going to have much sympathy for your cause because eventually someone is going to make the argument they should be able to call a female right wing pundit a vile word for a female dog because far worse things are said about male right wing pundits every day with zero ramifications. I might just have to agree with them instead.

{/rant}

21 replies, 2617 views

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Arrow 21 replies Author Time Post
Reply The idea that sexism only works one direction just doesn't fucking wash (Original post)
Major Nikon Nov 2012 OP
Bonobo Nov 2012 #1
Major Nikon Nov 2012 #2
Hemp_is_good Nov 2012 #3
Major Nikon Nov 2012 #8
loli phabay Nov 2012 #4
Warren DeMontague Nov 2012 #5
4th law of robotics Nov 2012 #6
Major Nikon Nov 2012 #7
4th law of robotics Nov 2012 #9
Major Nikon Nov 2012 #10
Major Nikon Nov 2012 #11
Hemp_is_good Nov 2012 #12
Major Nikon Nov 2012 #13
Hemp_is_good Nov 2012 #14
4th law of robotics Nov 2012 #15
Hemp_is_good Nov 2012 #18
Major Nikon Nov 2012 #16
Hemp_is_good Nov 2012 #17
Major Nikon Nov 2012 #19
lumberjack_jeff Nov 2012 #21
TreasonousBastard Nov 2012 #20

Response to Major Nikon (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:21 AM

1. Sounds like you're just overcompensating for a small dick.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #1)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:23 AM

2. Maybe that's why I keep getting told size doesn't matter

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #2)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:23 AM

3. THAT's an outright lie...

 

any woman who says that is a fucking lair!
They just don't like to admit it.
and yes im jaded b/c of my ex.
but for the rest of your rant.. spot on.

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Response to Hemp_is_good (Reply #3)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 10:43 AM

8. I haven't seen too many prosthetic penes that come in small sizes

Just sayin'

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #1)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 03:21 AM

4. rofl no idea what i can say to the sheer brilliance of this retort.

 

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Response to Major Nikon (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 07:42 AM

5. Some instruments play one note, and one note only.

That's pretty much the whole story, right there.

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Response to Major Nikon (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 09:12 AM

6. The double standard is rather glaring. I wonder if the usual outraged

 

parties will come here to explain/defend their reasoning.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #6)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 10:32 AM

7. I doubt they are going to come up with anything I haven't already seen

My personal standard is that there are just certain words I don't use because I feel they serve no purpose other than to divide. That's the standard I keep for myself. I don't push that on other people nor am I quick to judge them if they feel differently.

There are some on DU who pretend to know if people on DU are misogynists or not, which is a pretty strong charge if you think about it (I suspect they don't much). When you get right down to it, it's a pretty good trick to 'know' someone simply based on what they post on a message board. You might have your suspicions, but knowing with any certainty who they hate? All they are doing is revealing how much they don't know yet pretend to know. I've known people who throw around all manner of gender stereotypes, yet were fully committed to actually doing real things about gender inequality (besides just writing about it on a message board). I've also known people who were the worst sort of no-shit misogynists you can imagine, but you'd never know it from their language. Well guess what? It's not the blowhards people should be worried about. It's those who keep their hate internalized and simmering just below the surface, and then one day they decide they've had enough and act on it.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #7)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:19 PM

9. The only overt and habitual sexism I've seen on here

 

Beyond the odd troll has been directed at men.

And yet the only real discussion on the issue posits women as the sole victims.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #9)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:40 PM

10. Here's what you most often get as a response to calling them on that...

They say, "Why don't you alert on it?"

My answer is because I'm not the one who believes bad words are the scourge of humanity.

To be fair, there are those who probably alert on all sexism. I'm not so sure that's all that grand of an idea either, but at least I can appreciate the consistency.

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Response to Major Nikon (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 01:13 AM

11. Case in point (seen on DU)

This thread makes it to the home page with dozens of replies and recs, yet not one single person says anything about the obvious sexism:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021800416

There are hundreds of other examples. This just happens to be the best one for today.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #11)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:09 AM

12. Bad example...

 

calling someone a dick isn't sexist.
he IS a dick.
there are better examples, unless you can point out better to me why this is a good "as seen on DU"
I'm not trying to be difficult. it's just I think there should be a better example for the day.
i'm sure there are a few jail stories where the other side is laughing about male rape in prison (a real classic here!)

anyway i'm just a little lost, but I agree with the overall sentiment.

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Response to Hemp_is_good (Reply #12)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:48 AM

13. If calling a man a dick isn't sexist, then calling a woman a cunt isn't sexist either

So either way it doesn't matter, however I'm not going to argue that either is not sexist. When you reduce someone to their sexual organs, you are perpetuating the worst sort of stereotype. It's hard to imagine much that is more sexist than that.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #13)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 10:08 AM

14. Really? We're really going to sink to their level of ultra sensitivity?

 

Don't get me wrong I get your point, Totally I do.
I just think it's silly.
We're men. at the end of the day, stereotypical bullshit aside... we really are tougher than this.
there are better stories out there with REAL misandry.
go after those. calling a dick head a dick, is not sexist.
i'm sorry but you've missed the point this time.

A for effort though.
Honestly, going by their rules you're completely right!

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Response to Hemp_is_good (Reply #14)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 11:07 AM

15. I don't think asking for a single standard is "ultra sensitive"

 

Pointing out hypocrisy is always warranted.

If one person becomes apoplectic at using a slang term for a woman's genitals as a slur against women but happily does this against men that person is a hypocrite and should be called out on it.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 12:30 PM

18. But women can't be hypocrites on DU

 

No, seriously, they can't.
and that's what's most frustrating. they can't be called on their BS.
We literally CAN NOT safely call any of them on their BS w/o risking pizza.

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Response to Hemp_is_good (Reply #14)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 05:10 PM

16. It has nothing to do with what anyone is sensitive about

If I went by what I'm sensitive about, not much if anything would be sexist. If I went by what they are sensitive about, practically everything in the "patriarchy" is sexist. That's why I use the definition of the words in question. It cuts through all of that and applies an objective metric. I'm also not going to say that just because something is sexist, we should ban it entirely. Sexism which goes both ways is all around us. Trying to police up all of that would take up a lot of time and be a fruitless effort.

Furthermore sexism =/ misandry or misogyny. The later two both imply hate, whereas the former doesn't necessarily imply hate. A misandrist or a misogynist can also never utter a sexist slur or phrase.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #16)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 12:28 PM

17. Please don't get me wrong I understand your point

 

and I can see where it's going and why.
and yes using their standard it makes perfect sense.
I just think it's kind of sad this discussion was even necessary.

I guess I should revise/clarify my previous statements - very good post, sanguine, but still imho over the top (which of course is the point.)

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Response to Hemp_is_good (Reply #17)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 12:41 PM

19. This has actually been a subject that is political football even within the feminist community

Some feminists believe in taking back certain words...

http://www.pasadenaweekly.com/cms/story/detail/?id=3257&IssueNum=13

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #11)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 12:47 PM

21. I have a problem with the idea that certain words=sexism.

Sexism is essentially the belief that one gender (usually your own) is superior in some or all respects to the other.

I don't think word choice is a good metric of that belief. I'm sure there are a great many non-sexists who believe that Mitch McConnell is a person of poor ethics and who behaves in a unconscionable manner. I'm unconvinced that using the "A" "B" "C" or "D" words (we're going to need to expand into the higher ascii characters soon) to describe that behavior is exemplary of sexism.

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Response to Major Nikon (Original post)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 10:24 AM

20. You do realize that nobody actually gives a shit about all this...

it's working well enough as it is it for now and would involve thinking it through, which is hard to do when you're spending so much time complaining in "safe haven" groups. (Why are there 5 women's groups anyway?) I suspect that at the moment women have the upper hand in this because they have been real victims so many times that playing the victim card works well for them.

My point has always been that for true gender equality we have to give up the silly stuff-- like avoiding mentioning certain body parts. However, people have been banned here for saying "Nice tits" and not showing a picture of cute little birds. Vaginas? forgeddaboudit. I am bemused by how much time and effort, to say nothing of money, is spent making those things on women's chests so firm and perky but how we are not to look or comment on them. Whatever is the point, then?

It would probably be better if body parts were left out of the conversation, but, if you want to run for President, run a major company, be a firefighter, join the combat arms in the military... that's great, but you can't continue to hide behind 19th Century propriety.

It's not the sort of thing that can be finely defined, but we have to accept the difference between "that bitch" and "the bitches". One is a descriptor for a nasty shrew and the other is a slur on all women and some people get stuck in the confusion over the two.

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