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Tue Jun 12, 2012, 07:53 AM

RFK: 2004 election stolen (reprint of 2006 article)

See DU "good reads" thread at
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101631531

reprinted on a Wisconsin website as part of discussion of the recent recall election

Wisconsin reprint of original RFK post:
http://wisconsinwave.org/news/robert-f-kennedy-jr-2004-presidential-election-was-stolen-institutional-fraud
To remind you guys, here's how the article started:
Like many Americans, I spent the evening of the 2004 election watching the returns on television and wondering how the exit polls, which predicted an overwhelming victory for John Kerry, had gotten it so wrong. By midnight, the official tallies showed a decisive lead for George Bush -- and the next day, lacking enough legal evidence to contest the results, Kerry conceded. Republicans derided anyone who expressed doubts about Bush's victory as nut cases in ''tinfoil hats,'' while the national media, with few exceptions, did little to question the validity of the election. The Washington Post immediately dismissed allegations of fraud as ''conspiracy theories,''(1) and The New York Times declared that ''there is no evidence of vote theft or errors on a large scale.''(2)

But despite the media blackout, indications continued to emerge that something deeply troubling had taken place in 2004. Nearly half of the 6 million American voters living abroad(3) never received their ballots -- or received them too late to vote(4) -- after the Pentagon unaccountably shut down a state-of-the-art Web site used to file overseas registrations.(5) A consulting firm called Sproul & Associates, which was hired by the Republican National Committee to register voters in six battleground states,(6) was discovered shredding Democratic registrations.(7) In New Mexico, which was decided by 5,988 votes,(8) malfunctioning machines mysteriously failed to properly register a presidential vote on more than 20,000 ballots.(9) Nationwide, according to the federal commission charged with implementing election reforms, as many as 1 million ballots were spoiled by faulty voting equipment -- roughly one for every 100 cast.(10)

The reports were especially disturbing in Ohio. . ..

29 replies, 2965 views

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Arrow 29 replies Author Time Post
Reply RFK: 2004 election stolen (reprint of 2006 article) (Original post)
MBS Jun 2012 OP
orpupilofnature57 Jun 2012 #1
bettydavis Jun 2012 #8
peace13 Jun 2012 #2
patrice Jun 2012 #4
orpupilofnature57 Jun 2012 #5
emulatorloo Jun 2012 #6
peace13 Jun 2012 #10
karynnj Jun 2012 #12
peace13 Jun 2012 #15
karynnj Jun 2012 #19
wisteria Jun 2012 #27
YvonneCa Jun 2012 #28
rurallib Jun 2012 #3
rhett o rick Jun 2012 #7
oldhippydude Jun 2012 #9
beachmom Jun 2012 #11
politicasista Jun 2012 #13
MBS Jun 2012 #14
peace13 Jun 2012 #16
politicasista Jun 2012 #17
politicasista Jun 2012 #18
karynnj Jun 2012 #20
beachmom Jun 2012 #21
YvonneCa Jun 2012 #22
politicasista Jun 2012 #23
YvonneCa Jun 2012 #24
politicasista Jun 2012 #25
YvonneCa Jun 2012 #26
politicasista Jun 2012 #29

Response to MBS (Original post)

Tue Jun 12, 2012, 08:02 AM

1. 2000 election let the fox in the hen house

And Nancy Pelosi made the atrocity complete with " Impeachment isn't on the table " that would have been the only way to expose the Treason that has taken place ever since.

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Response to orpupilofnature57 (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 12, 2012, 11:33 AM

8. uh I know...

I wanted to smack her when she said that! impeachment is NEVER off the table. That was their biggest mistake. Never putting that piece of crap on a stand. Do you know how much would have come out during impeachmnt proceedings...oy vey. when will the damn dems learn

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Response to MBS (Original post)

Tue Jun 12, 2012, 08:35 AM

2. John Kerry solicited money from his contributors to get a recount.

After which he proceeded to admit defeat before all of the votes were counted. So he got the money and the bad news that John Edwards was a skunk. His only recourse was to let * and his handlers steal the election. What was he going to do, sit there and wait for them to expose his VP? Blackmail is a beautiful thing!

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Response to peace13 (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 12, 2012, 08:53 AM

4. Those who CAN send innocent Americans to kill innocent Iraqis ARE capable of A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G. nt

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Response to patrice (Reply #4)

Tue Jun 12, 2012, 09:19 AM

5. The Terrorists Thomas Jefferson warned us about

And FDR called Them ," Those who would pluck the Eagle of Democracy to feather their own nest " or as I call it Poppy and his " New World Order " .

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Response to peace13 (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 12, 2012, 10:19 AM

6. Link?

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #6)

Tue Jun 12, 2012, 04:15 PM

10. He solicited the money, I know...I sent him some.

I live in Ohio and saw the fallout and stood on the statehouse steps every Sunday in January trying to wake the rest of America up! Kerry made All gore look like Mohammad Ali. Kerry did quit before the votes were counted! Fact. The black mail is my opinion. If Kerry wasn't threatened then IMO he deliberately threw the election. I give him the benefit of a doubt. Exactly how long Kerry knew that Edwards was hiding a mistress and a baby under his hair I don't know but I can bet he knew before we did!

By the way I love the 'link' request. Sometimes folks actually were alive and watching the bad things that happened!

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Response to peace13 (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 12, 2012, 07:29 PM

12. Kerry conceded when it was mathematically impossible

for there to be enough votes in Ohio. The fact is all of the things that would have made Edwards a problem happened after 2006. It is completely true - and Kerry has politely addressed it that Edwards was a major disappointment and not helpful to the campaign. However, there was nothing that would have disqualified him - and his role - other than being in the line of succession and breaking ties = was just what Kerry would have given him. Not to mention, Kerry could replace him for 2008.

The votes are never completely counted on election eve - and the norm is that there will be a concession of the obvious loser. Gore conceded in 2000 - then unconceded when numbers changed. The team of experts who told Gore to do that, told Kerry that the numbers were not surmountable.

Later, Cam Kerry, John Kerry's brother, put out a detailed statement on Ohio. There were many ways that the vote was suppressed - including placing fewer voting machines in big cities than were there in the primary - but you can't count votes that are never cast.

The fact is that Kerry would not have given up his chance to make the world better - especially in Iraq/Afghanistan etc. If Edwards did anything so bad that he was a problem, he could have been forced out - a scandal, but better than 4 more years of Bush.

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Response to karynnj (Reply #12)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 10:53 AM

15. Sorry , but Kerry's 'loss' was more than a few badly placed machines!

You may want to look at Ohio SOS Blackwell running the Ohio votes through the Republican National Committee computers before final tally was sent to DC. The person responsible for this was killed in a small plane crash in Ohio shortly before testifying on this activity.

http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2011/4239

More here on where the 118,000 votes were that you say was a mathematical impossibility.

http://thenewpress.com/index.php?option=com_title&task=view_title&metaproductid=1597

Believe what you want to. I live here and lived through it. It only points out how hard it will be to get the votes counted in Ohio this fall. If Americans refuse to look carefully at how the system works in each state then we have no hope of ever truly electing another president here.

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Response to peace13 (Reply #15)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 06:04 PM

19. I do not disagree with you that there were significant elements

of cheating in Ohio. The point was that within the period between the election and when the election had to be certified (in January 2005), there was NO way to argue that more validly cast votes were for Kerry than for Bush in Ohio.

I cited the machines because that was the most provable and there is no way that 4 hour plus lines - in a cold rain - did not cause the loss of votes (for Kerry - given the location). I am beyond impressed with the Ohioans who waited in the lines. There were other votes that were lost due to the caterpillar ballot. It is very obvious that the "ghost" spikes for nominees in some districts who had the slot that Kerry had in another district. The problem is that though a statistician would likely "correct the data" if this were a study, just like in Palm Beach in 2000 even if the intent is almost certain to be Kerry, the votes count as they were tallied. (I do get that it is most likely that there was some Republican hanky panky here.)

I did read of the plane crash and of the Republicans sharing a server with the secretary of state's official system. This was a major wake up call - in addition to 2000 that we have a third world election system. (Now combined with unlimited propaganda by the very wealthy.) This is extremely unhealthy for our democracy.

I do know that the Kerrys themselves thought that Ohio was not fair. Teresa, when she spoke in 2008 the night of Obama's victory (and Kerry's for Senate) at the Boston celebration spoke of "this time" it would come out clean (or something to that affect).

Where I disagree with you is that Kerry threw the election or failed to contest anything that could have been contested - even with a low chance of winning. Kerry, his wife, his family and his allies worked their hearts out to the last minute - and you can see in the election day photos that they were exuberant and thought that they had pulled off a very long shot win, against a very uneven playing field. He and his wife endured having their excellent reputations trashed and were willing to run again in 2008 - until it became clear that he could better achieve change by doing his job in the Senate and working for getting a Democratic President elected.

A large part of the charge that he could have challenged the results was because the dishonest Edwards - for their own gain among the left - lied to say that JRE had fought to challenge the results. It should be noted that they did this JUST in the blogospere. In the mainstream they avoided saying this using language that meant just that.

It is sad to me that Kerry was pushed and agreed to take Edwards as VP. Kerry's own gut feel was that he did not trust him. I can see how, with everyone from Clinton to Kennedy pushing Edwards, the media loving him and various polls and focus groups showing he was the best choice to say no -- and pick someone he would be more comfortable with, knowing the media was already writing that it would be Kerry's vanity or fear of being overshadowed that would stop him from picking Edwards. However, in 2004, NONE of the things that showed Edwards for who he is had happened. The damage was that Edwards was not even willing to be the Edward of the primaries and was unwilling to do what EVERY VP is tasked to do - this in addition to having a slender record to run on.

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Response to peace13 (Reply #15)

Sun Jun 24, 2012, 09:55 PM

27. I agree with you. There was more that was done to manipulate the vote

than just disenfranchising people with fewer machines and longer lines. There were questions in a couple of counties after counts came up with more votes for Bush than those who had voted and other issues concerning closing off recounts and supposed malfunctions with voting machines. Lawyers working indirectly for Senator Kerry even tired to look into discrepancies after the election was over. And, even Teresa Kerry questioned the final outcome of the 2004 election. There was even the questionable death of an IT expert working for Rove during the 2004 election.
It may be comforting for some to believe that the only shenanigans during the 2004 election was the effort to disenfranchise,but I will always believe everything was done-legal and illegal- to ensure that Bush was reelected. For me the 2004 elections still remains the darkest day in presidential politics and I truly believe that in years to come the truth will begin to trickle out.

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Response to wisteria (Reply #27)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 05:53 PM

28. Hope you are right about...

...the truth, wisteria. And I also hope that by the time the truth comes out, legislative action has been taken to improve our presidential...and other federal...elections.

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Response to MBS (Original post)

Tue Jun 12, 2012, 08:45 AM

3. almost can't imagine how blatant the theft will be this election

but we know the media won't see a thing.

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Response to MBS (Original post)

Tue Jun 12, 2012, 10:47 AM

7. Is the Democratic Party doing anything to prevent this from happening again? nm

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Response to MBS (Original post)

Tue Jun 12, 2012, 11:36 AM

9. th RFK link is a lengthy read...

complete and well documented.... i had no idea of the scope of events in Ohio in 04..

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Response to MBS (Original post)


Response to beachmom (Reply #11)


Response to beachmom (Reply #11)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 05:58 AM

14. the general lesson (about Republican voting fraud) is, unfortunately, not a dead horse

That's why I posted it, and why it was re-posted on that Wisconsin website.
I wish that institutional voting fraud were not a dead issue, but unfortunately, it's very much alive. And, yes, we've got to be very, very vigilant about these issues in 2012, if we want our democracy to survive. See the current controversy in Florida, and all those Republican initiatives , in many states across the country, to take away voting rights from citizens. We cannot let these people succeed in perverting and (if the big money has its intended effects, and if the voter-suppression succeeds) destroying our democracy.

And, sorry, it was an issue in 2004. I do believe that both the 2000 and 2004 elections were stolen, and I think that RFK got it basically right in that 2006 article. . . (by the way, judging from her blunt remarks at a book-signing in 2006, THK thinks so, too, or at least she did in 2006). The point is: we can't let this happen in 2012. . or, for that matter, ever again.

It saddens me to see , even in this Kerry forum thread, that there are still people out there who cling to the ridiculous meme that Sen. Kerry "didn't fight hard enough". The regulars in this forum know how absurdly, even slanderously wrong, that is.

I am so tired of the lies (about Dems, about Obama, about Kerry) , and of people believing the lies.

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Response to MBS (Reply #14)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 11:01 AM

16. It is sad that so many here will not look at the facts.

We lived the steal in Ohio and it knocks more than the wind out of you! In 2004 we demonstrated at the Ohio Statehouse every Sunday in December, hoping that the country would wake up. They never came off of the Christmas shopping rush to see what was going on.

All I can say is that the deniers here and everywhere will be sadly disappointed when it happens again. Obama will have to win by a landslide to actually get to keep his votes here in Ohio, a pivotal state in the race.

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Response to peace13 (Reply #16)


Response to MBS (Reply #14)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 03:43 PM

18. + 110 n/t

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Response to MBS (Reply #14)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 06:09 PM

20. Agree with you on Teresa

She pretty much said that when speaking of the elections results coming in in 2008 when she spoke in Boston before Kerry did. She commented on how the people from 2004 were part of the effort to see it come in "clean". In fact, when interviewed when he voted, Kerry spoke of having been on an early morning telephone call with the campaign's Ohio lawyers - who were headed by Cam Kerry.

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Response to MBS (Reply #14)


Response to MBS (Original post)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 12:39 AM

22. Free for All...

..is a documentary that tells the story of Ohio 2004. It's pretty low budget, but it gets the facts right (except for one) and explains what was done in a way that's easy to understand. I disagree with the part of the film that puts blame on Senator Kerry.

http://www.freeforall.tv/

I completely believe that John Kerry was elected in 2004...always have, always will.

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Response to YvonneCa (Reply #22)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 01:12 AM

23. That is too bad they blame Senator Kerry

and give people like Edwards and McAuliffe a pass.

IMO, IRT that is the reason why Senator Kerry hasn't gotten the credit and respect he deserves, whether it is the environment, foreign policy, etc.

The 2004 election and its aftermath is what people seem to remember, if they didn't, you would not still see half the slamming that is in this thread.

Maybe somebody should just well, say something, anything to make these people be quiet.

People will disagree but that is JMHO.


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Response to politicasista (Reply #23)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 11:10 AM

24. Hi politicasista...

... Nice to 'see' you!

Senator Kerry has always been blamed by people on the right. I think it's because he is seen as a leader who usually successfully accomplish his goals...and the right totally disagrees with his goals/views, beginning with his service in Viet Nam in the 60's. Many of the 'rank and file' on the right don't know who McAuliffe or even Edwards (until the scandal) are or what they did.

As to 2004, most people I know in the real world don't know about Ohio. It wasn't covered by the media. Democrats who WERE paying attention, like us, divided between those who thought Kerry didn't fight (even though he did) and those who watched the recount in detail...and the Conyers/Nader hearings and the Carter/Daschle hearings and know he did fight but ran out of legal options.

I have always felt that the legislation drafted by Senator Clinton (I think with Senator Boxer) to reform our presidential election process was badly needed. There weren't the votes to pass it. But we, as a country, still face the same problems with our elections. They will never be made perfect...but until confidence in elections is debated and restored, I think it will be difficult to overcome suspicions, on both sides, that elected presidents are legitimate.

That hurts all of us, IMHO.

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Response to YvonneCa (Reply #24)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 05:23 PM

25. Hi Yvonne Ca

Nice to see you too and hope you are doing well.

Your analysis is spot on. In addition all you have said:

Hope that the legislation drafted by Senator Boxer and Senator/SOS Clinton will be reintroduced (if that's how that works). The story about voters being purged from rolls in FL is , and those dreadful voter ID laws.

Yep. Election shenanigans hurt all of us.

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Response to politicasista (Reply #25)

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 06:48 PM

26. If there is ever enough of a Democratic majority in...

...Congress OR if enough Republicans summon the integrity to put our democracy and country ahead of their own, selfish (IMO) political goals, I would LOVE to see that legislation re-introduced. It included things like voting machine integrity, rules about who is in charge of (SOS)statewide voting (shouldn't be counting the votes if you chair a party campaign like Ken Blackwell did in Ohio or Katherine Harris did in Florida). It set standards for conducting elections and maintaining voter rolls. It would not have fixed everything, but it 'might' have prevented new technologies from just becoming hi-tech ways to steal elections. It modernized things.

I'm not holding my breath, though.

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Response to YvonneCa (Reply #26)

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 06:23 PM

29. True

Though IDT that more Dems (and Gore, Kerry can too. ) should say more about this and the voter ID law. It is a really big deal and silence should not be an option on this issue.

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