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Mon Jan 14, 2013, 10:18 AM

James Carroll (Boston Globe) argues that Kerry has not spoken enough of the immorality of Vietnam


He basically says that, though Kerry spoke of the atrocities in 1971, he hasn't since. This ignores that he did speak of it - at least in the Senate where at least once he spoke of the fact that the military even changed rules due to what happened in Vietnam. It also ignores that having very publicly spoken of the fact that the war was wrong, he really does not have to repeat it. He did however, affirm what he did on the 35th anniversary with his speech at Faneuil Hall on the right and responsibility to dissent. What he has seemed to speak of, when needed, is the fog of war that the soldiers were put in - whether the soldiers were Bob Kerrey or US soldiers in Iraq. (He also testified on agent orange.)

More importantly, he ignores that Kerry did answer in 2004 in the debates when he thought it just to go to war. His answer was the global test - which from the Pepperdine speech was essentially what entails a just war. In that answer, in 2004 or 2006 with the Pepperdine speech ( http://www.pepperdine.edu/pr/releases/2006/september/kerry.htm ), Kerry implicitly called the Iraq War immoral. (His repeated "it was not a war of last resort" also said the same thing.) I really do not think there was ever a case where a party's nominee called a current war immoral. He explicitly used the word in the Take Back America speech in 2006.

It almost seems that because he risked his entire future in 1971, there are some who want to hold him to acting at that level permanently - when few do it at all. The fact is that Kerry speaking out as he did may well have cost him the Presidency - yet from his 2006 speech, he still is proud that he did.

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Arrow 9 replies Author Time Post
Reply James Carroll (Boston Globe) argues that Kerry has not spoken enough of the immorality of Vietnam (Original post)
karynnj Jan 2013 OP
4Q2u2 Jan 2013 #1
Mass Jan 2013 #2
Mass Jan 2013 #3
karynnj Jan 2013 #6
mylye2222 Feb 2014 #9
Mass Jan 2013 #4
karynnj Jan 2013 #5
Mass Jan 2013 #7
Mass Jan 2013 #8

Response to karynnj (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 11:27 AM

1. James Carrol is Never Happy

The Ex Priest, Ex Air Force Brat, EX every thing. No one can ever live up to his standards, but then again there is nothing worse than an EX anything, they are perfect in all ways and will never be shy in telling you how screwed up you are. This is a case of Silver Spoon Drive by's, a man given everything in life standing on his soap box in his ivory tower. A 1%er, but sometimes he says things we like, so Mr. Carroll is above reproach in the eyes of ideologues.

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Response to karynnj (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 12:02 PM

2. I found the article very enlightning and I would wish that Obama, Kerry, Hagel, Biden would

stop and think a little bit about what wars means to civil populations in the countries they are waged in.

It may be because I was born and raised in Europe, but I have always thought the rush to go to war in Iraq in 2003 was largely due to the fact we knew the war would not be waged on the American ground (thanks god). For all the weight this war, the Aghan War, the Vietnam war were to military families, the truth is that the general population was largely unaffected.

Both my parents remember vividly their life in the 1940s, bombing on or close to housing, lack of food, German soldiers going through their town and killing 100 young men,... These are images you do not forget, and these are images the Americans did not get through since the Civil War (and it is a good thing). But saying that the countries the war is waged in have the same damages as the US is wrong, and this is what Carroll refers to.

Of course, we do not like hearing negative things about Kerry, but I think he is fair here, and I wished that, in these days where we seem to be rushing to war with Iran (or at least some are), we would think about the difference of suffering. It is also why the drones are worth thinking about. Killing people without really putting lifes on our side at risk. I understand why a government wants to do that, but when do we start realizing that war kills innocent victims

Just to make it clear, Kerry is much better than most politicians on that, but he is still in the mainstream, and would not be if he had made this issue an important issue. Also, Hagel and Kerry are not targeted by chance. They are the nominees for two very important offices. Kerry is more examined here because there is nothing to examine when it comes to Hagel. What would you say? Has he ever seem to care about this?

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Response to Mass (Reply #3)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:12 PM

6. I get your point

Kerry did speak of seeing his grandparents' French estate destroyed after WWII when he was a very young boy. Still that is nothing compared to what you are speaking of. I think that he connected that with what he saw in Vietnam.

I agree that had Kerry continued to speak as he did in 1971 -- or even the early 1990s when he read anti war poetry on the Senate floor, he likely would not be in the position of being named SOS and he would not have been the nominee. (He would have been a taller, better looking version of Kucinich, with a more consistent record - but clearly not someone that could win "in a time of war."

As to Hagel, as far as I remember, the comments he made against the war were later and paler than the Democratic mainstream at the time they were made -- but still far from the norm on the Republican side.

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Response to Mass (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 11:56 AM

9. oh

Mass. Did your parents lived in Tulle? ?? I am also a fond of Ww2 history.

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Response to karynnj (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 05:28 PM

4. Is Glenn Johnson looking for a job at the Boston Herald?

http:// www.boston.com/politicalintelligence/2013/01/14/staff-says-john-kerry-paid-fair-market-value-for-tickets-patriots-owner-robert-kraft-suite/5QrKu490TfdclMQYIk1mNM/story.html

Frankly, I do not understand why the Boston Globe keeps him. It is not that their usual staff is great, but Johnson is even one step below.

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Response to Mass (Reply #4)

Mon Jan 14, 2013, 06:04 PM

5. Well, he was the reporter who got national attention for calling

Kerry a liar when he had a press conference to announce that he was going into the hospital for cancer surgery for the same type of cancer that took his dad's life - because Kerry had not given him an exclusive in response to Johnson's comment that he looked like hell a week or so earlier.

Johnson is equally pathetic when he writes of Kerry or when he tries to inflate Scott Brown.

You can tell Kerry is used to this because he used a credit card to insure a record. Great that Kerry was able to enjoy the game.

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Response to karynnj (Original post)

Wed Jan 16, 2013, 01:08 PM

7. Newsflash!

The Boston Globe discovers that Senator Kerry is rich, as is his wife.

Really, that is news? And it probably took the White House by surprise.

Why is it not a problem for Senator Hagel, who is also very rich, but becomes one for our senior senator.

This is this type of stupid report that will make me cautious until the vote happens.

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Response to karynnj (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 10:54 AM

8. Note to the Atlantic Wire - Republican talking points are not always correct

I noted this yesterday because this was really media whore reporting. The Boston Herald GOP resident columnist had been trying to create some news concerning the election (and who knows, try to get Scott Brown to run, as he seems reluctant).

Well, of course, last night, the hearing dates were set and the same reporter (or blogger) from the Atlantic Wire who posted as a fact that the hearing could be delayed is now posting that uh, no, they will be right when they were set. Do not expect any acknowledgement that yesterday report was uhm, let's say skewed by biased sources. Just forget what he/she said yesterday.


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