HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Places » International » Latin America (Group) » Peter Kornbluh meets w/Al...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 09:59 PM

Peter Kornbluh meets w/Alan Gross - American jailed in Cuba wants US to sign 'non-belligerency pact'


http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/02/15620342-american-jailed-in-cuba-wants-us-to-sign-non-belligerency-pact-to-speed-release

Peter Kornbluh directs the Cuba Documentation Project and the Chile Documentation Project at the National Security Archive (www.nsarchive.org), a public interest research center located at George Washington University (Washington, DC). He is co-author of The Iran-Contra Scandal: The Declassified History (New Press), author of The Pinochet File: A Declassified Dossier on Atrocity and Accountability (New Press) and co-author of a forthcoming book on the untold history of dialogue between the United States and Cuba.

HAVANA, Cuba — Three years after he was arrested in Havana, jailed American contractor Alan Gross is asking the U.S. government to sign a "non-belligerency pact" with Cuba as a first step toward negotiating his release, according to a Cuba policy analyst who just visited him.

Peter Kornbluh , right, stands with Alan Gross, in a picture taken on Kornbluh's iPhone by a guard during his visit to the Havana prison where Gross is being held.

Peter Kornbluh, a Cuba specialist at the National Security Archives, a nonprofit research center in Washington, met with Gross for four hours on Wednesday at the military hospital in Havana where the contractor is being held. He said Gross appeared "extremely thin" — he has lost over 100 pounds since his arrest —and dispirited.

"He’s angry, he’s frustrated, he’s dejected — and he wants his own government to step up" and negotiate, said Kornbluh. "His message is that the United States and Cuba have to sit down and have a dialogue without preconditions. … He told me that the first meeting should result in a non-belligerency pact being signed between the United States and Cuba."

20 replies, 2098 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 20 replies Author Time Post
Reply Peter Kornbluh meets w/Alan Gross - American jailed in Cuba wants US to sign 'non-belligerency pact' (Original post)
flamingdem Dec 2012 OP
Judi Lynn Dec 2012 #1
Mika Dec 2012 #3
naaman fletcher Dec 2012 #4
Mika Dec 2012 #5
naaman fletcher Dec 2012 #7
Mika Dec 2012 #8
naaman fletcher Dec 2012 #10
naaman fletcher Dec 2012 #11
joshcryer Dec 2012 #6
Mika Dec 2012 #9
joshcryer Dec 2012 #12
Mika Dec 2012 #16
Mika Dec 2012 #17
joshcryer Dec 2012 #18
Judi Lynn Dec 2012 #13
Mika Dec 2012 #2
Daniel537 Dec 2012 #14
flamingdem Dec 2012 #15
joshcryer Dec 2012 #19
Daniel537 Dec 2012 #20

Response to flamingdem (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 06:23 AM

1. Peter Kornbluh's a tremendous person. Glad he went there to meet Alan Gross.

The administration should really start considering a trade. It IS the right thing to do. Anything short of that is dead wrong.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 08:55 PM

3. Cuba won't trade a criminal for patriots. Would create a false equivalency.

Gross was helping the illegal anti Cuba terra/espionage network = criminal terrorist.
The Cuban Five were working to stop the illegal anti Cuba terra/espionage network = patriot anti terrorists.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mika (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 09:05 PM

4. That's not what Jorge Bolanos says

 

But it's not like he speaks for Cuba or anything

http://www.pslweb.org/liberationnews/news/ambassador-jorge-a-bolaos.html

May 5, 2012

Wolf Blitzer
The Situation Room
CNN America, Inc.
820 First Street NE
8th Floor
Washington D.C. 20002-4243
Dear Mr. Blitzer:
In connection with your conversation with Mr. Alan Gross, broadcasted on May 4, 2012 in "The Situation Room", I'm writing to request that my government's positions on the case be equally made known. These are:

The Cuban government has conveyed to the U.S. government Cuba's willingness to find a humanitarian solution on a reciprocal basis in the case of Mr. Gross.
Mr. Gross was not convicted for helping the Cuban Jewish community to connect to the Internet. All Cuban synagogues have Internet; they had Internet before Mr. Gross came to Cuba.
Mr. Gross violated Cuban laws by implementing a U.S. government program aimed at attempting to undermine Cuba's constitutional order. The undercover activities of Mr. Gross in Cuba constitute crimes in many countries, including in the United States.
During his visits to Cuba, Mr. Gross never told the people he contacted that he was working for the U.S. government. He is not an activist who came to Cuba to assist the Cuban people; he is a professional paid for by the U.S. government.

• Mr. Alan Gross is in good physical conditions, he receives specialized medical care, balanced meals, regular consular access, visits by friends and political and religious personalities. He has had visits by his wife and he maintains systematic and stable communication with his family.
• The cases of Rene Gonzalez and Alan Gross are very different. Rene served his sentence to the last day, and he remains in the U.S. against his will, away from his family. The decision by a Florida federal judge to allow Rene to travel to Cuba is in line with the conditions imposed for Rene's supervised release, which allow his traveling to Cuba, following authorization by the probation officer or the court. His wife Olga is not even allowed to visit him during his term of supervised release.

The Cuban government has facilitated all visits by family members, friends, religious figures and political personalities that have requested access to Mr. Gross. These conditions are very different from the cruel regime of solitary confinement that has been arbitrarily meted out against the Cuban Five: Gerardo, Ramon, Antonio, Fernando and even Rene. They have strict restrictions against giving interviews to the U.S. press.
The Five have been almost 14 years in U.S. prisons, for gathering information on terrorist groups conducting attacks against Cuba from the U.S. Such information helped save lives in both countries. The Five were not in the possession of government secrets nor did they attempt to undermine U.S. security.
The Five have faced obstacles to contact with their families and two of them, Gerardo and Rene have not been visited by their wives, Adriana and Olga. Gerardo's mother died while he was in prison, and the mothers and fathers of the other four are very old. Gerardo and his wife have not been able to conceive a child.

Sincerely,
Jorge A. Bolaños Suárez
Chief of the Cuban Interests Section
Washington DC

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to naaman fletcher (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 09:13 PM

5. And this addresses or contradicts my comment, how?

It doesn't.

Your tangential posts are of no help. As usual.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mika (Reply #5)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 09:15 PM

7. Totally.

 

You said cuba won't trade a a criminal for patriorts. Yet that is exactly what Cuba has proposed to do.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to naaman fletcher (Reply #7)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 10:41 PM

8. In that statement? Where?

Where does he say that?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mika (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 10:50 PM

10. ???

 

In connection with your conversation with Mr. Alan Gross, broadcasted on May 4, 2012 in "The Situation Room", I'm writing to request that my government's positions on the case be equally made known. These are:

The Cuban government has conveyed to the U.S. government Cuba's willingness to find a humanitarian solution on a reciprocal basis in the case of Mr. Gross.


So, he is talking about the Alan Gross case, and says he wants a solution on a reciprocal basis. Then, he goes on endlessly about the Cuban five.

Or we can just go to another of various sources:


Cuba renews call for U.S. to swap prisoners
2012-12-06 06:19:18 GMT2012-12-06 14:19:18(Beijing Time) Xinhua English

HAVANA, Dec. 5 (Xinhua) -- Cuba said Wednesday it was open to "serious talks" with U.S. officials on the possibility of swapping prisoners to secure the release of jailed U.S. citizen Alan Gross.

Gross is serving a 15-year sentence in Havana for "subversive activities," and the United States is holding five Cuban prisoners convicted in the late 1990s of spying.

Cuban foreign ministry official Josefina Vidal said Havana was renewing its invitation to hold "serious talks" aimed at resolving both cases.

http://english.sina.com/world/2012/1205/534713.html




Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mika (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 10:54 PM

11. Here's Raul's own daughter proposing it also

 

Mariela Castro, daughter of Cuban President Raúl Castro, calls on the U.S. to release five Cubans jailed for spying on anti-Cuban militants in Florida in exchange for Alan Gross, a U.S. citizen jailed in Cuba. The Cuban Five were convicted in 2001 for committing espionage in southern Florida. They say they weren’t spying on the U.S., but trying to monitor right-wing violent Cuban groups that have organized attacks on Cuba. "I want the Cuban Five to go back to Cuba and for Alan Gross to go home," Castro says. "I want an end to the financial, commercial and economic blockade that violates the human rights of the Cuban people, and the normalization of relations between both countries.


http://cubasolidarity.blogspot.com/2012/06/mariela-castro-on-ending-embargo.html

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mika (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 09:15 PM

6. They both were caught for illegally using spectrum.

Gross was trying to give out illegal satellite equipment. The Cuban Five were illegally listening to secure channels (which even an American citizen could get arrested for).

The only real difference between the two is that in the United States free communication is almost considered a right, whereas in Cuba it has been denied for decades.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to joshcryer (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 10:42 PM

9. Link to the Cuban Five illegally listening to secure channels, please.

I don't remember that at all.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mika (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 10:58 PM

12. Here you go:

Page 49:

The Chief of Naval Operations at the Pentagon testified that, although the main frequencies that the Navy uses to control civilian and military aircraft are published, Guerrero’s report included frequencies that are not published.


Hey, btw, can you provide me with the court documents for Gross and the evidence against him?

No?

Darn... that's OK.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to joshcryer (Reply #12)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 01:09 PM

16. Where does it say that they were listening to them?

It doesn't. The link you provided is the prosecution's case presentation in the appeal, so much of it is exaggeration.

Do you have the link to the defense case presentation?

Thanks.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mika (Reply #16)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 01:15 PM

17. BTW, anyone with an auto scanner VHF radio can get and listen to these frequencies.

Listening isn't illegal. It was the publishing of them in his "report" that was contended as illegal.
IAlthough none of these frequencies are secret to the Cuban gov't. They have auto scanners you know. If there was any secret communications by the navy station, then they would have been encrypted and there's nothing of revealing anything encrypted nor any encryption keys in any of the accusation.
Still, they did break US law, as did Gross violate Cuban law.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mika (Reply #16)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:59 PM

18. How else are they going to know the frequencies were being used by the conspirators?

I'll try to find a link for the defense case presentation once you provide me the link to Alan Gross' prosecution papers...

Tired of digging stuff up for you, it's Friday night.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mika (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 01:10 AM

13. I was thinking about the other side,the U.S. signalling all this time they are above giving up the 5

in order to get their USAID-owned guy back.

There really is no comparison. Gross was not trying to protect a soul from ongoing terrorism and murder.

Cuba could get 5 very good, heroic people back for one slimeball if the US didn't enjoy making them suffer, and showing who's in charge now.

Also, the story they circulate about the FBI "catching" the 5 is a shrieking lie, considering the fact these men had already taken their collected findings to the FBI in Miami, like the naive people they were, expecting the FBI would thank them and move on the information, doing this all in vain, as we all know the FBI turned its back on them before turning around to throw them in prison after a putrid filthy trial.

Dirty, deceitful bahavior from an organization we were raised to respect.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to flamingdem (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 08:52 PM

2. I guess he should have thought about non-belligerency prior to his CIA op.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to flamingdem (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 12:03 PM

14. This nonsense could end in one day if the US govt. stopped being so stubborn.

If they're going to refuse to exchange the 5 for Gross based on simple "principle", whatever that is, then Mr. Gross is going to die down there. Simple as that. His wife was right when she said he was abandoned by his govt., but then again, that happens a lot to people who work for our intelligence agencies, so its no surprise.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Reply #14)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 12:30 PM

15. I'm glad his wife is pressing this hard. At least it is getting press attention

and the hypocrisy is loud and clear, well to those who look at the history and big picture it is.

We're still in a situation where the USA will not risk making any moves that will piss off the right wingers in congress.
What's the upside? The right wing probably loves the Gross story for their own purposes. Gross truly is caught in
the middle but he enjoyed a half million in payments along the way, that's the breaks.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Reply #14)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:02 PM

19. The US believes Cuba is on a cusp of change, I don't think they'll do it.

They might in 5 years or so if the changes that are already happening don't continue... by then Gross may be dead.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to joshcryer (Reply #19)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 07:23 AM

20. I don't think they'll do it either, unfortunately.

So unless there's a sudden regime collapse in Cuba(unlikely) or some more sanctions are lifted against Cuba(probably even more unlikely) Gross will probably die down there.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread