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Bacchus4.0

(6,837 posts)
Wed Dec 28, 2011, 10:27 AM Dec 2011

Iranian president to visit Venezuela, Cuba

http://news.yahoo.com/iranian-president-visit-venezuela-cuba-131516559.html

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is to visit Venezuela and Cuba as part of a four-nation Latin America tour in the second week of January 2012, an official said Wednesday.

Ahmadinejad will also visit Nicaragua and Ecuador on the trip, his international affairs director, Mohammad Reza Forghani, told the official news agency IRNA.

All the countries are left-leaning and share an ideological antagonism towards Iran's arch-foe, the United States.

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The trip was announced ahead of new sanctions expected to be imposed by the United States and Europe on Iran's oil and financial sectors in a bid to halt Tehran's controversial nuclear programme.

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Iranian president to visit Venezuela, Cuba (Original Post) Bacchus4.0 Dec 2011 OP
OH NOES!!! krucial Dec 2011 #1
http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100413050415AAu9dxs ChangoLoa Dec 2011 #10
Birds of a feather flock together Zorro Dec 2011 #2
Yeah... ocpagu Dec 2011 #3
they certainly don't like a free press n/t Bacchus4.0 Dec 2011 #4
They also don't like oil looters. ocpagu Dec 2011 #5
they sell oil to the US, Iran might not too much longer, Cuba doesn't Bacchus4.0 Dec 2011 #6
? ocpagu Dec 2011 #7
who are the oil looters?? n/t Bacchus4.0 Dec 2011 #8
Irony apart, who is "us"? ChangoLoa Dec 2011 #9
I think its a simplistic "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" foreign policy approach Bacchus4.0 Dec 2011 #11
Of course... naaman fletcher Dec 2011 #12
Yeah, if you gotta have markets, social democracies are the best way to do it. joshcryer Dec 2011 #13
I wonder... ocpagu Dec 2011 #14
Iran's government is hardly worse than Saudi Arabia's as to tyranny... Peace Patriot Jan 2012 #15
 

krucial

(206 posts)
1. OH NOES!!!
Wed Dec 28, 2011, 11:03 AM
Dec 2011

The US will not be pleased at all.I know Iran will be looking to hide their large quantities of WMD's there in Venezuela and Cuba,so that means we might have to go and defend ourselves and our national security in venezuela,Cuba,and maybe Ecuador,defend our strategic interest,spread freedoms and Democracy,and eliminate "EVIL DOIN,evil doers who hate us for our life syle and what we have.
God is on our side.
USA!! USA!! USA!!
We're number one,we are number one,YEAH!!!
God bless the USA!!!
Now Sing after me,"Oh say can U C'

Bacchus4.0

(6,837 posts)
6. they sell oil to the US, Iran might not too much longer, Cuba doesn't
Wed Dec 28, 2011, 12:34 PM
Dec 2011

you don't know what you are talking about do you?

 

ocpagu

(1,954 posts)
7. ?
Wed Dec 28, 2011, 12:53 PM
Dec 2011

Is your post supposed to have a meaning?

I said they don't like oil looters. What does that have to do with Cuba not having oil, Venezuela selling oil to US or US threatening Iran?

ChangoLoa

(2,010 posts)
9. Irony apart, who is "us"?
Wed Dec 28, 2011, 02:59 PM
Dec 2011

Just my opinion, but as a Venezuelan, I personally think that our alliance with Iran presents very little strategical interest. You may talk about the oil market but, in that sense, we've been allied with Iran for quite a longtime before Chavez, against the Saudi positions within the OPEC. As we all know, the Saudis - western consummers' Trojan Horse in the organization - have since the 70's largely overtaken Venezuela as the main oil exporter in the world. Today, they control around 13% of the world's total oil exports. The KSA being the US-ltd. branch in the region, there's very little to do on that level, besides trying to create internal instability in the kingdom.

But maybe you see other benefits from that alliance that I've overlooked... I'd be curious to hear them if that's the case.

On the other hand, from a moral point of view, I think it's quite deplorable to see our 'leftist revolution' building that kind of brotherhood and alliance with an extreme RW theocracy where emprisonment and torture is the norm for leftist militants. Especially for the "evilous" communist atheists who are treated as a plague that should be eradicated by the Iranian conservatives (like Ahmadinejad).

I may be old fashioned, but I'll never agree with selling leftist comrades (even if they're communists and I'm a socialist*) for temporary geopolitical interests, as Chavez is doing with Iranian progressives. He should speak, he has an influence in Iran nowadays. He should defend what he presents as his ideals and oppose the torture of hundreds of leftist militants at Evin. Unfortunately, he'll never do that, he'll keep calling Ahmadi his "brother" and a "revolutionary freedom fighter". That's a real shame for us.

Ocpagu, if you and I were Iranians and publicly spoke our minds or wrote, trying to convince people of the utility of our ideals (even if they're not exactly the same), we'd be in jail. I can guarantee you that.


* Just in case, by socialist, I don't mean socio-democrat. Anglo-saxons usually reduce the left to a binary confrontation between marxists and SD. That's absurd and shows their lack of a leftist political culture. There are many approaches, from Proudhon's anarchism to Gramsci's historicism and Jaurès effective social fights within the Fench SFIO. However, I tend to disagree with leninism which transformed marxism into an empty frame in which the party-aristocratic-nomenklature flourished and ruled over the workers.

Bacchus4.0

(6,837 posts)
11. I think its a simplistic "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" foreign policy approach
Wed Dec 28, 2011, 03:15 PM
Dec 2011

looking at it from the outside.

 

naaman fletcher

(7,362 posts)
12. Of course...
Wed Dec 28, 2011, 07:17 PM
Dec 2011

So now we have "progressives" who support right wing theocracies (Iran) and are against political self-determination (Falklands). Amazing, isn't it?

joshcryer

(62,269 posts)
13. Yeah, if you gotta have markets, social democracies are the best way to do it.
Fri Dec 30, 2011, 09:16 PM
Dec 2011

Note, this is coming from an extremely anti-monetarist POV, full on collectivist / communist, and it's a rather niche view, because most socialisms or communisms have markets and money.

 

ocpagu

(1,954 posts)
14. I wonder...
Sat Dec 31, 2011, 02:13 AM
Dec 2011

... why does the Iranian nuclear programme is considered "controversial", since they are not the ones pretending not to have nukes in the Middle East...

And let us go pretending Saudi Arabia and the other Western-friendly brutal dictactorships are a myth.

Peace Patriot

(24,010 posts)
15. Iran's government is hardly worse than Saudi Arabia's as to tyranny...
Sun Jan 1, 2012, 01:51 PM
Jan 2012

...so WHY is the U.S. closely allied with Saudi Arabia and demonizing and planning war against Iran?

And why should any independent country, like Venezuela, demonize and plan war against Iran, rather than treat Iran like any other sovereign country in the world as to trade and foreign relations?

The nuclear weapons issues is a total shibboleth, in my opinion. According to all objective authorities in the world, Iran does not possess nuclear weapons and is merely considering developing them for the very good reason that Israel has nuclear weapons and that the U.S., with more nuclear weapons than anybody in the world, has targeted Iran--and has just destroyed Iran's neighbor, Iraq, slaughtering over a hundred thousand innocent people. The only legal constraint on Iran is the nuclear arms treaty but Iran is a sovereign country that can break treaties if they decide to, especially with their national security at risk. WHO says they can't have nuclear weapons as a deterrent--like India, like Pakistan, like France, England, Israel and the U.S.?

Other deeper issues are at work in the U.S. targeting of Iran. I think they can be summed up with the word "independence." They have an independent oil bourse. They have lots of oil which gives them economic leverage. The government has been generous in benefits of that oil wealth to the people of Iran and they are what used to be called a "neutral country"--that is, they are self-governing and are not allied with U.S. or E.U. corporate/bankster/war profiteer interests. This is intolerable to those interests.

And when you look at what's happening to the people of the countries that ARE controlled by U.S. or E.U. corporate/bankster/war profiteer interests--both as to democracy and as to gross economic unfairness--who is to say that Iran's is a worse government--with the exception of its leaders' religious hatred of women and sexual freedom (which is actually far less bad than Saudi Arabia's). Give the fascists here time, and, believe me, they are fully capable of similar repression. The rightwing billionaire, Howard Ahmanson, who funded the private corporation that now controls 80% of the voting systems in the U.S. (ES&S/Diebold) also gave one million dollars to the nutball 'christian' Chalcedon foundation, which touts the death penalty for homosexuals, among other things. How far are WE from this kind of repression?

I don't have ANY sympathy whatever with rightwing Islam and its treatment of women--but I don't think war is the answer to such problems. But trade may be. Friendly relations may be. Cultural exchanges may be. How are women's rights going in Iraq, by the way? Very badly, is the truth of the matter. What a rotten dirty joke it is when "women's rights" are used as a front issue for war!

Women's rights, re Iran, is also a shibboleth, in my opinion. A false issue. Women have far more rights and status in Iran than they do in U.S. ally Saudi Arabia. Neither nuclear weapons, nor women's rights, nor democracy are the issue. These are all highly hypocritical excuses for punishing Iran for its independence and for seeking control of its oil to fuel the great U.S. war machine and the globalization plans of its corporate looters and exploiters.

And THAT is why both Venezuela and Brazil have invited Iran's president to their countries and opened trade relations with Iran. The new leftist leaders of South America see it as an independence issue--both their independence as sovereign countries in determining their own foreign and trade relations, and Iran's right to independence from U.S. and E.U. corporate interests.

If the goal is to change Iran in the interest of its peoples' freedom and well-being, the South American solution is potentially successful and the U.S. solution is horribly destructive.

When you look at the history of U.S. interference in Iran--Jeez!--all you see is destructiveness, including 25 years of torture and oppression by the U.S.-installed "Shah of Iran"! The U.S. supports democracy in Iran? Give me a break!

Trade, cultural relations, respect--these are the things that promote democracy and human rights--when you are dealing with a country that has not aggressed against anyone. The U.S. is the aggressor in the Middle East, now, and has been for the last half a century--including the installation and support of hideous dictators all over the landscape. I see nothing in Iranian foreign policy that is not a reaction to U.S. aggression and an attempt to defend Iran's independence and sovereignty.

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