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Wed Nov 13, 2013, 03:03 PM

Sorry, Venezuela haters...

Sorry, Venezuela Haters: This Economy Is Not the Greece of Latin America
by Mark Weisbrot 11/8/13
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/07/venezuela-not-greece-latin-america-oil-poverty
found at: http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/10155

Document Evidences Destabilization Plan Against Venezuela
by Eva Golinger 11/8/13
http://www.chavezcode.com/2013/11/document-evidences-destabilization-plan.html
found at: http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/10152

These two articles are like the two sides of a coin--the front side (Weisbrot's article) reveals stats that contradict the disinformation about Venezuela's economy that never stops in the corpo-fascist press; the backside (Golinger's article) reveals the plans of fascist operatives (including mafia don Alvaro Uribe, Bush Jr.'s man in Colombia), psyops firm JJ Rendon (remember them?), Venezuela's 'Mad Tea Party" and the USAID/CIA to destabilize Venezuela's economy and overthrow the Chavez/Maduro government.

We need to understand things like this (from the conclusion of Weisbrot's article)...

"...the poverty rate dropped by 20% in Venezuela last year – almost certainly the largest decline in poverty in the Americas for 2012, and one of the largest – if not the largest – in the world. The numbers are available on the website of the World Bank, but almost no journalists have made the arduous journey through cyberspace to find and report them. Ask them why they missed it." --Weisbrot (my emphasis)


...in the context of things like this (from Golinger's article about “The Strategic Venezuelan Plan" devised by those mentioned above):

"The document ... details the strategy to sabotage the electrical system in Venezuela, with the objective of blaming the government for a weak infrastructure and therefore projecting an image of crisis in Venezuela on an international level. As part of the plan, the authors propose, 'To maintain and increase the sabotages that affect public services, particularly the electrical system, that will enable responsibility to be placed on the government for supposed inefficiencies and negligence'." --Golinger


It is BECAUSE the poverty rate dropped by 20% in Venezuela last year--and has dropped so dramatically throughout the Chavez/Maduro era that the UN Economic Commission on Latin America and the Caribbean has designated Venezuela "THE most equal country in Latin America"--that fascist operatives like Uribe and corpo-fascist servants like the USAID/CIA are still plotting to destabilize and overthrow this socialist government.

Can't have an example of fairness to the poor in the world, especially one with fairness to the poor CREATED BY the poor majority itself, by their grassroots activism, voter turnouts and devotion to democracy!

Bad example to the rest of us that fairness CAN BE achieved by ordinary people if they stick together, organize, educate themselves and believe in themselves as citizens and vital actors in a democratic system.

That's anathema to the fascists, corporatists, militarists and billionaires who are oppressing us here in the U.S. and trying to oppress everyone else--steal their resources, turn them into slave labor. They have succeeded in many places. But Latin America is fighting back--in a highly successful leftist democracy movement that was inspired and pioneered by the people of Venezuela.

Can't have the poor majority thinking that THEY are important, that THEY are the "sovereign power" in a democracy, that THEY can vote themselves a "New Deal," and that THEIR elected leaders can competently run a government in THEIR interest.

Again, it is BECAUSE the Venezuelan government is SUCCESSFULLY reducing poverty and has inspired leftist movements throughout the region that it is the target of these corpo-fascist criminals, who want all the resources, all the money, and all the power unto themselves.

Golinger fingers the oil (biggest oil reserves on earth) as a particular object of greed by Venezuela's fascists and their U.S. and other funders and collaborators. But it is a "given" that U.S.-based transglobal corporations lust for oil. That's what the horrendous war on Iraq was all about. Oil is important but there is more--the need for transglobal corporations to smash self-government and local sovereignty wherever it arises but especially in countries that have lots of oil. They don't believe in self-government and sovereignty, because self-government and sovereignty interfere with their lust for resources, profit and power. They aim to smash self-government and the sovereignty of the people here and everywhere else. Venezuela is an EXAMPLE of what they DON'T WANT, and, furthermore--as Weisbrot points out--DON'T WANT US TO KNOW ABOUT.

Uribe's Colombia has one of the worst rich/poor discrepancies in Latin America--the opposite of Venezuela! It is no wonder that Uribe wants to smash Venezuela's socialist government right next door and return to power in the billionaires' 'paradise' of Colombia, where five million peasant farmers have been driven from their lands and labor leaders are routinely murdered by rightwing death squads. Venezuela sets a "bad example" of what Colombia's majority might do, if it can ever throw off U.S. corporate/military/fascist control. The CIA serves these interests so it's no surprise either that they are involved in the plotting along with CIA fronts like JJ Rendon. Indeed, the CIA are the original plotters and, but for them, criminals like Uribe would have no power.

It is BECAUSE OF the successful rise of the poor majority and its anti-poverty program in Venezuela that Venezuela is being targeted--by propaganda throughout the corpo-fascist press, by sabotage and by coup plotting. It is BECAUSE the Venezuelan poor majority has taken control of their oil, and has insisted on corporate contractors paying into their social system, and has asserted Venezuelan SOVEREIGNTY, that THEIR government--a government truly 'of, by and for' the people--is so venomously hated by corpo-fascists and targeted for destruction.

Two sides of the coin: dramatic poverty-reduction; and dirty rotten plots to END poverty reduction and install 1%-er control of Venezuela and everywhere else on earth.

24 replies, 1757 views

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Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 24 replies Author Time Post
Reply Sorry, Venezuela haters... (Original post)
Peace Patriot Nov 2013 OP
Scuba Nov 2013 #1
Bacchus4.0 Nov 2013 #2
spanza Nov 2013 #3
Marksman_91 Nov 2013 #11
Demeter Nov 2013 #4
bvar22 Nov 2013 #5
Judi Lynn Nov 2013 #6
Bacchus4.0 Nov 2013 #8
Judi Lynn Nov 2013 #7
Peace Patriot Nov 2013 #12
Paolo123 Nov 2013 #13
Judi Lynn Nov 2013 #15
Skittles Nov 2013 #9
Starry Messenger Nov 2013 #10
Socialistlemur Nov 2013 #14
Judi Lynn Nov 2013 #16
Marksman_91 Nov 2013 #17
Socialistlemur Nov 2013 #18
spanza Nov 2013 #19
Judi Lynn Nov 2013 #20
Socialistlemur Nov 2013 #21
FrodosPet Nov 2013 #22
mecherosegarden Nov 2013 #23
Peace Patriot Nov 2013 #24

Response to Peace Patriot (Original post)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 03:35 PM

1. Kick.

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Response to Peace Patriot (Original post)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 03:38 PM

2. posts from 2 paid chavista supporters

Looks like only you are being left out. Let me summarize Weisbrot's article w/o the spin: Despite inept and corrupt mismanagement by the administration, Ven is unlikely to face calamity because of their existing oil reserves.

No-one is trying to emulate the Venezuela economic model. Even Cuba is loosening state control of the economy while Ven is increasing it.

Why don't you promote a model like Brazil or Peru where poverty reduction has been real along with economic gains without all the disastrous economic and social policies of Chavez and Maduro?

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Response to Peace Patriot (Original post)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 04:20 PM

3. "the sabotages that affect public services, particularly the electrical system"

But last time you, along with Eva Golinger, Mark Weisbrot and all the team from venezuelanalysis, explained the blackouts were caused by the drought... and then it rained a lot but the blackouts didn't stop! You all stopped caring, though. Now you care again? How come?

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Response to spanza (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 09:28 PM

11. They're willing to believe any dumb conspiracy spat out by the Chavista leadership

even when it doesn't really make much sense and are often contradictory. But hey, even when the facts don't work in their favor, they must unconditionally support any leader who claims himself to be "leftist", because, you know, every left-wing government in history has always been comprised of absolutely well-meaning do-gooders.

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Response to Peace Patriot (Original post)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 04:21 PM

4. PIN IT TO THE TOP!

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Response to Peace Patriot (Original post)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 04:22 PM

5. DURec.

Chavez diverted part of the profits from the foreign owned Resource Extraction Corporations to:
*Feed the Hungry

*House the Homeless

*Heal the Sick

*Empower the Disenfranchised

*Educate the Ignorant

...I can see why some here HATE him and the populist Bolivarian Reforms
sweeping across Latin America!


VIVA Democracy!
I pray we get some here soon.

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Response to Peace Patriot (Original post)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 05:13 PM

6. Amazing quote you highlighted, from Mark Weisbrot! How could this happen?

Why on EARTH did we not see this mentioned anywhere in our own "truth-seeking" corporate media? Clearly an oversight. We could never accuse them of concealing any part of the truth from the US citizens, their customers who rely upon them for the facts, could we?

To reiterate the quote you included in your original post:

Meanwhile, the poverty rate dropped by 20% in Venezuela last year – almost certainly the largest decline in poverty in the Americas for 2012, and one of the largest – if not the largest – in the world. The numbers are available on the website of the World Bank, but almost no journalists have made the arduous journey through cyberspace to find and report them. Ask them why they missed it.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #6)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 05:57 PM

8. Various countries in latin america have experienced dramatic reductions in poverty

and there is no special mention of that. Peru being the most dramatic example. Venezuela poverty numbers are not particularly stellar when compared to the region as a whole. Of course, Weisbrot isn't going to show that comparison but I will. http://povertydata.worldbank.org/poverty/region/LAC


and for whatever reason Weisbrot links to the Spanish website while this is in English.

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Response to Peace Patriot (Original post)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 05:38 PM

7. We weary of seeing trolls attempting to dismiss the truth,

by trying to urge people not to read it since it was written by "paid" implied agents of the Venezuelan government.

We are well aware that the same things which have happened to Venezuela already happened to Chile long ago, after Richard M. Nixon told Richard Helms, his CIA head, to "make the economy scream," a command Helms passed on to posterity when he wrote it down and it was later discovered in declassified documents.

As more time goes by, more will be illuminated, just as it has with Chile where the very same things happened which have happened to Venezuela.

Why fix a program if it "ain't broke?" Clearly it still works just fine!

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #7)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 10:05 AM

12. Re: "paid agents"...

My rule for Bushwhacks may apply: Whatever they say, the opposite is true; and, whatever they accuse others of doing, THEY are doing or planning to do.

It was/is a pretty infallible guide to Bushwhack truth/non-truth. And it may have useful applications when trying to sort out what other rightwingers/corporatists are up to.

Now they are trying to accuse ME of being the paid agent of venezuelanalyis.com. I make my pay the hard way. I work in a hospital. But you've got to wonder about such a wildly inaccurate allegation how much of it is prompted by guilt and projection.

That's why my posts are infrequent--I work for a living, and it's not easy work either, nor well-paid. DU is part of my life as a citizen. I not only don't get paid for blogging at DU, I'm losing money (hours I don't work for money). I am a volunteer, expressing my opinion and trying to spread information, especially information that is NOT available ANYWHERE in the corporate media. Venezuelanalysis.com is a good source of alternative info on Venezuela and I've found it to be a reliable source as well, unlike the corporate media which is VERY unreliable on this subject.

Here's another good article from venezuelanalysis:

Maduro Strikes against Speculators, Proposes Profit Limits in Venezuela
Source: http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/10158

We need a president who strikes against speculators and proposes profit limits, and we need such a leader very badly. In short, we need FDR--but we're not likely to ever get another FDR, given the 'TRADE SECRET' voting machines and corporations-as-persons. You want to know why the Obamacare web site is such shit? Private contractors! Put government workers in charge--workers answerable to The People and not to Wall Street's God of Profit--and you'll create a perfectly competent agency like Social Security, or like the U.S. Postal Service (before it was ravaged by the Bushwhacks). Put private corporations in charge of a "common good" government program and you get shit. They may be fine at turning out iPhones. They are NOT FINE at running governments!

We ARE capable people, and we love to contribute to the Common Good. But, when you have insurance corporation-run health care, to begin with, COMBINED with the EXTREMELY CORRUPT government contracting system (made 1,000 x worse by the Bushwhacks), what should we expect? Exactly what has happened--and i don't think Obama is conscious enough to realize it. I think he's drunk the Wall Street koolaid (and/or has other constraints on him that we know not of).

Imagine this headline: "Obama Strikes Against Speculators, Proposes Profit Limits in the USA."

Makes you want to cry.

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Response to Peace Patriot (Reply #12)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 11:03 AM

13. That's a good rule


My rule for Bushwhacks may apply: Whatever they say, the opposite is true; and, whatever they accuse others of doing, THEY are doing or planning to do.


I like that.

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Response to Peace Patriot (Reply #12)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 05:44 PM

15. No surprise at all to know outside your efforts here you are helping others

elsewhere. It fits perfectly.

It also fits perfectly the right-winger cluster clangers, outside their jobs here, are volunteering their time harming people elsewhere! Probably sneaking into nurses' stations and switching medicines, into rooms and unhooking machines, or working at organizing scheming groups for group action against human beings.

What we would give to see that proposed headline! Can always dream.....

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Response to Peace Patriot (Original post)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 06:06 PM

9. you want I should kick some Venezuela-hating ass, Peace Patriot?

LEMME AT THEM!!!

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Response to Peace Patriot (Original post)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:11 PM

10. k&r

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Response to Peace Patriot (Original post)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 05:26 PM

14. Venezuelan bonds pay between 13 and 15.7 %

In other words Venezuelan debt is considered junk. They are rumored to be trying to sell gold and their accounting lacks transparency. It seems they hold a lot of worthless bonds from Argentina, Bolivia, Ecuador, etc. Also their oil income is overstated ad ten there are huge sums of money stolen by corrupt government officials. And there are the funds they funnel to Cuba. So this explains why they are broke.

Mr Weisbrot is a bit of a shill for those regimes, they have to sell bonds to survive and he was trying to pump the market. But the way Maduro instigated the store lootings led to a Venezuelan bond collapse. Everybody I know in financial circles thinks the guy is nuts. Like Mugabe.

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Response to Socialistlemur (Reply #14)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 09:00 PM

16. People who want the Venezuelan president to put the majority first,

the people who NEED help, rather than foreign interests are going to be mad at Maduro, just as they were at Chavez and all leftist leaders.

It's a matter of principle.

Right-wingers don't have principles. Simply personal interests, insatiable personal greed.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #16)

Fri Nov 15, 2013, 01:09 AM

17. Principle? SURE! Because Joseph Stalin was a man of MANY principles.

Your cynical attitude in insisting on seeing the world in black and white continues to astound me.

Let me show you one of the supposed "left-wing" people in Maduro's government, Mr. Luis Vuitton himself, National Assembly deputy Pedro Carreño (remember, that guy who used homophobic slurs some months ago and of which there is plenty of video evidence?), accusing Capriles of being in cahoots with one of the owners of the many chains of stores that are under crackdown by the government for selling products at overloaded prices called Daka:



Turns out that the man in that photo with Capriles was NOT, in fact, the owner of Daka, but rather a Mexican senator, Javier Lozano Alarcón. Javier himself confirmed that that's him in the photograph through his twitter account @JLozanoA. In case you need to use a Chavista website in order to believe that this whole story is true, here's an article by Aporrea.com confirming that the man in the picture with Capriles is indeed Alarcón, and where they actually do talk about the real owner of Daka:

http://www.aporrea.org/actualidad/n239932.html

So what does this show us then? That someone who recognizes himself as a leftist and a hardcore supporter of the Chavista regime is willing to openly lie (poorly, I might add) about their political opponent. Is this what you mean by "principle"? Stop being so fucking close-minded and accept that people from any side of the political spectrum can be lacking of principle, even those who are "left-wing".

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #16)

Fri Nov 15, 2013, 06:30 AM

18. I think you need to edit your post

You seem to have it backwards or somebody hacked your ID.

Regarding personal greed, it seems to me Maduro sure is feeding it, encouraging a frenzy of bargain shopping for expensive appliances. I guess he forgot Venezuela has an electricity shortage.

You know, this seems to be a real problem with the Venezuelan regime. They are spray painted with a varnish of social consciousness, but that government is full of corrupt and greedy crooks. And Maduro sure lacks a compass if he thinks encouraging a shopping spree is the way to fix the extremely serious problems Venezuela has at this time.

Venezuelan bonds are indeed losing value. I you don't understand this, it means new issues will pay extremely high interest rates. And this happens beause investors see a country ruled by a nutcase. This is the reason why very serious people who used to work with Chavez are now calling for Maduro's head. He was the wrong choice.

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Response to Socialistlemur (Reply #18)

Fri Nov 15, 2013, 07:42 AM

19. When you worship, you never question

These are the small cancers in any revolutionary / reformative process. Especially when they win their Supreme Leader's affection and manage to eliminate those who criticize. Nowadays, not one chavista dares saying "this could be done differently" (as you can see in this forum), they're only useful to insult and cast suspicion on supposed internal enemies and imperialist agents. They are the main reason why most times these political movements become ill.

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Response to Peace Patriot (Original post)

Fri Nov 15, 2013, 02:48 PM

20. Refrigerator Wars in Venezuela

Weekend Edition November 15-17, 2013

The Revolution Goes Back in Action

Refrigerator Wars in Venezuela
by CHRIS GILBERT
Caracas.

The Venezuelan state is intervening in different retail businesses around the country, principally those that trade in domestic appliances. This apparently modest decision, taken a week ago, has set in motion an interesting process of push and pull. Long lines outside the intervened stores and some disorder inside meet with predictable outcry about “mobs” and “communism” from the counterrevolutionary press.

The effects of this whole process – some anticipated, others not – make for a complicated situation. In fact, it is impossible to predict how it will play out. Yet one thing is clear: President Nicolás Maduro, after months of passivity, vacillation, and concessions has finally gone on the offensive.

The core decision is to limit the markup on certain products imported with subsidized dollars. Importers in Venezuela bring in goods with cheap dollars that they obtain through the state – dollars that come from the petroleum rent. They then mark up the goods 200% to 1000%. The government’s idea is to limit the markup to 30%. For this reason, state institutions such as INDEPABIS are now revising these importers’ books, while the army maintains order.

To some this might seem ridiculous. Whereas the Russians stormed the Winter Palace, the Venezuelans took over the refrigerators and televisions! Yet it should be remembered that the U.S. independence process began with similar skirmishes over consumer goods. Moreover, the nature of the Venezuelan economy makes commerce rather than industrial production the key area for the distribution of wealth.

More:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/11/15/refrigerator-wars-in-venezuela/

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #20)

Fri Nov 15, 2013, 05:21 PM

21. So they'll smuggle appliances to Colombia, Brazil, Trinidad....

The official bolivar rate is 6.3 bolivars per US dollar.

The black market rate is 63 Bolivars per US Dollar

A TV set which sells for $300 in the USA would sell for around $500 in Venezuela (this accounts for transport inefficiency, the value added tax and the 30 % markup).

The $500 is 3150 bolivars. This is what a lucky Venezuelan pays for this TV set.

The lucky Venezuelan takes the TV set, puts it in a large backpack and carries it across the mountains to Colombia. The trip by rough trail takes three days.

Once he is in Colombia he sells it to a Colombian buyer for $200 USD (he's in a hurry so he will deal very fast).

Then he will exchange the $190.50 in the black market for 12000 bolivars. The $9.50 goes into buying lunch and a bus ticket back to Venezuela.

When he arrives he will have 12000 bolivars. Deducting 3150 he borrowed from his uncle, he gets 8850 bolivars. He takes 3150 bolivars and sets them aside for ANOTHER TV set. He spends 1000 bolivars and gives 4700 bolivars to his parents.

Then he buys a second TV set, this time using his profits. So the second time he has an 8850 bolivar profit. He makes about 4 trips a month. So the first month he's in the TV set export business he makes 32250 bolivars, that's $5119 USD at the official rate. But he decides to take it to Colombia to keep safe. He deducts say 12250 bolivars so he and his family can live from his new business. And he takes 20000 bolivars in Colombia. This gives him $317 to put in a bank account.

After one year he has "exported" 48 TV sets, has $3855 usd in Colombia (he made a little in interest).

The Venezuelan government would have spent $14400 buying TV sets.

The Colombian buyers will have $4800 in profits because they got the TV sets at a heavy discount.

And after one year another 1000 young men will be humping TV sets across to Colombia because the TV set export racket is really good and sure beats selling soft drinks as a street vendor.

So the Venezuelan government has choices...it can spend millions of dollars to keep the stores stocked, or it can start a repressive "war on TV set smuggling" along the border. Or it can let the stores shelves empty and stop replacing TV sets. Or it can sell the TV sets at "usury prices" to discourage TV set traffic into Colombia.

So what do you think this idiot Maduro will do when he realizes his moves are causing enormous economic harm and breaking the national accounts?

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #20)

Fri Nov 15, 2013, 11:24 PM

22. Is that 30% of NET profits?

After paying for goods, employees, electricity, building maintenance costs, marketing, licenses and permits, cleaning supplies and labor, taxes, accounting, HR, stock handlers, transportation expenses and everything else necessary to keep the doors open?

Or are they trying to completely put the whole country out of business by saying product markups are limited to 30% over the cost of goods?

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Response to Peace Patriot (Original post)

Tue Nov 19, 2013, 01:00 PM

23. They are successfully what?

I am not a Venezuelan hater, on the contrary, I love my birth-country very much . Now, this sentence really got to me: "the Venezuelan government is SUCCESSFULLY reducing poverty." Do you really believe that? In Venezuela people can't buy food because they do not have the money to do so; they can't afford medical care ,because they don't have the money to do so. Now please tell me, how is it that this crazy government is reducing poverty?
If you really want to see what is going on: Go there. Stay there ; take with you only the equivalent to the minimum wage. Then, try to pay for a rental, and the utilities. Go to a supermarket, and after you make those long lines, then get what is available . Then, on the way your car, be very careful you don't get robbed or kinnapped . When you get home, pray that you have water, or electricity and that someone is not there to rob you, again. The situation in my country is not good. People live in fear. Please, go there and learn what really, really, really is going in my beautiful country.

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Response to mecherosegarden (Reply #23)

Sun Nov 24, 2013, 12:02 PM

24. My stats are from the UN Economic Commission on Latin America and the Caribbean,

the Millennium Project and other reliable institutions--not vague blatherings from disgruntled ex-pats.

Venezuela has cut poverty by 50% and extreme poverty by over 70%. It has met ALL of its Millennium goals (poverty elimination indicators), and did so ahead of schedule, and, according to the UN Economic Commission, has become "THE most equal country in Latin America" on income distribution.

You apparently haven't a clue about what is "really, really, really going (on) in (your) beautiful country."

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