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Wed Oct 9, 2013, 10:11 AM

This message was self-deleted by its author

This message was self-deleted by its author (polly7) on Sun Sep 7, 2014, 08:22 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

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Reply This message was self-deleted by its author (Original post)
polly7 Oct 2013 OP
Judi Lynn Oct 2013 #1
Bacchus4.0 Oct 2013 #3
Judi Lynn Oct 2013 #4
Bacchus4.0 Oct 2013 #5
dlwickham Oct 2013 #28
polly7 Oct 2013 #6
Peace Patriot Oct 2013 #11
Bacchus4.0 Oct 2013 #2
polly7 Oct 2013 #7
Bacchus4.0 Oct 2013 #8
ehcross Oct 2013 #9
Peace Patriot Oct 2013 #10
Peace Patriot Oct 2013 #12
dlwickham Oct 2013 #27
a la izquierda Oct 2013 #19
Socialistlemur Oct 2013 #13
Judi Lynn Oct 2013 #14
Socialistlemur Oct 2013 #15
Paolo123 Oct 2013 #16
Judi Lynn Oct 2013 #18
Paolo123 Oct 2013 #20
Judi Lynn Oct 2013 #21
Paolo123 Oct 2013 #22
Judi Lynn Oct 2013 #23
Paolo123 Oct 2013 #24
Socialistlemur Oct 2013 #25
Judi Lynn Oct 2013 #17
mitchtv Oct 2013 #26

Response to polly7 (Original post)

Wed Oct 9, 2013, 01:20 PM

1. Are we surprised our corporate media failed to report these events?

Hell, no!

So glad you posted this information! Otherwise, we never would have known!

It's such a huge event, yet we would have remained as dumb as mushrooms, and continued eating our daily ration of fertilizer from the official stenographers.

An OUTSTANDING comment was made, quoted in your article which needs to be highlighted, too:

Criticisms of inaction on global warming were also aimed northward. Mujica of Uruguay lashed out at U.S. consumer culture, saying, If everyone aspired to live like the average U.S. citizen, wed need three planets.

Isn't that fantastic? True, too.

This is a turning point. Thank god someone got the news out to us! Our "elected" government should use this time to start rethinking its behavior toward the other human beings in this hemisphere, and then the rest of the world.

So much damage to the Americas must be repaired. Long ago was the tine to start. There's no excuse for the present.

Thank you, Polly.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #1)

Wed Oct 9, 2013, 01:36 PM

3. wow, you don't like the US or our Democratic administration

we never saw that coming.

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #3)

Wed Oct 9, 2013, 01:50 PM

4. " "OUR" Democratic administration"? That's unexpected, of course! n/t



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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #4)

Wed Oct 9, 2013, 01:55 PM

5. yep, not yours thats for sure. Chavistas aren't Democrats n/t

s

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #5)

Sun Oct 13, 2013, 05:41 PM

28. not with a big D or even a little d

wanna be dictators is more like it

did they ever solve that toilet paper shortage

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #1)

Wed Oct 9, 2013, 06:00 PM

6. Yvw Judi Lynn



It's a long but very good article. So glad to see how they all stood up for themselves so clearly at such an internationally important event.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #1)

Wed Oct 9, 2013, 10:49 PM

11. "...our daily ration of fertilizer from the official stenographers." !!!

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Response to polly7 (Original post)

Wed Oct 9, 2013, 01:35 PM

2. failed to make headlines?

Dilma's criticism was front page news. At least, for a few hours on some internet sites. That is definitely inaccurate statement by the writer. And why should criticism of the likes of Evo and Rafa be front page news carried in the US? First of all they criticize the US for everything, and secondly, who cares what they say?

Their pronouncements made the headlines in their home nations.

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #2)

Wed Oct 9, 2013, 06:02 PM

7. "and secondly, who cares what they say?"

I do! As do many others.

If you don't like seeing important Latin American news here, I suggest you avoid this forum.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #7)

Wed Oct 9, 2013, 07:32 PM

8. The OP link questions why you don't see criticism from Morales and Correa in the headlines

I am guessing that most Americans are not interested in what Rafa and Evo have to say, and would wonder why anyone is paying attention to them, and why criticism of the US by them would merit headline coverage.

On the other hand, this is the Latin American forum so those interested in the region are here.

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #2)

Wed Oct 9, 2013, 07:51 PM

9. Dilma's criticism should not have been news at all.

 

Brazil's president Dilma Rousseff's unnecesary criticism of U.S. surveillance policy does nothing to explain how her country is in any way affected by surveillance which is aimed at detecting threats to the United States and South American countries. In fact, it should be a source of enhanced security for neighboring countries.

Ms. Rousseff should feel more secure by knowing that U.S. surveillance systems are monitoring her country's security under the U.S. umbrella.



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Response to ehcross (Reply #9)

Wed Oct 9, 2013, 10:47 PM

10. "...aimed at detecting threats...". Ya gotta be kidding!

The U.S. was/is spying ON ROUSSEFF--her phone calls, her emails.

They were/are spying on Brazil's state oil company!

Threats to "security," my ass!

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #2)

Wed Oct 9, 2013, 11:18 PM

12. Evo Morales is the "Nelson Mandela" of Bolivia!

He is the pivotal leader who has helped to transform a country where, as late as the 1960s, Indigenous citizens were not allowed to walk on the white people's sidewalks (!), into a country where the Indigenous majority at long last has basic human and civil rights. He has also doubled Bolivia's gas revenues (their main resource) by savvy negotiation, and is using the money for education, health care, pensions, needed development and other benefits for all Bolivians.

Most North Americans would love to hear about these incredible social/political advances. The ones like you, who couldn't care less about the poor and the excluded, are few in number in the U.S., but get a big boost from the corpo-fascist media and your ES&S/Diebold so-called Congress.

Rafael Correa is one of the most popular presidents in the world. He, too, is a leader of an incredible social/political revolution. He is now in his second term, with astronomical approval ratings, in a country that, prior to Correa, couldn't keep a president in place and a stable government in place, from month to month. He has stabilized Ecuador and put it on a progressive path.

Most of our citizens here would love to hear about this--and about the leftist democracy revolution all over South America and into Central America. Our people are disgusted with corporate-run, 1%-er run government, which afflicts us no matter who is in office, and would love to hear about alternatives, about governments that actually do "the will of the people," and how such governments can be achieved. Latin America has produced many examples of government "of, by and for the people," yet we hear nothing about them in the corpo-fascist media, except for exaggerated, biased, negative news stories when anything at all goes wrong. We hear NOTHING about what is going right, why these leaders are so popular, why they keep winning elections, what their polices are, what the people who vote for them think about them and their policies. Nada.

You are just full of snark and sneers. You belittle these leaders. You, by implication, belittle the people who put them in office and the countries in which these great LEFTIST events are happening. Your posts are like the statements of street bullies--short, aggressive snorts and sneers, tearing others down.

OF COURSE most of our people would love to hear what Evo Morales and Rafael Correa have to say, IF THEY GET THE CHANCE TO HEAR IT. But it is CENSORED by our corpo-fascist news monopolies!

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Response to Peace Patriot (Reply #12)

Sun Oct 13, 2013, 05:39 PM

27. how many years was Morales in jail

as compared to Mandela of course

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #2)

Fri Oct 11, 2013, 06:06 AM

19. I care what they say.

You and your echo chamber in the Latin America forum, eh, not so much.
Evo Morales and anyone else in Latin America for that matter, has every right to criticize the United States. Or does criticism only flow southward from your lips to God's ears?

Thanks, though, for making the Latin America forum an unreadable heap. So unreadable that those of us with PhDs in the region find zero pleasure in wading in there to read you and your merry band of followers.

I'm sure one of your neophytes will rush to alert, and so be it. Has to be said.

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Response to polly7 (Original post)

Thu Oct 10, 2013, 03:50 AM

13. Its common sense complaints about the drug war and the Snowden/NSA affair

I wouldn't call it a "rebellion", they are upset over two USA policies which most USA citizens also dislike. So what's the big deal?

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Response to Socialistlemur (Reply #13)

Thu Oct 10, 2013, 04:14 AM

14. The U.S. should NOT be dictating police actions in other countries.

How could you miss it?

US citizens also dislike the policies? Good grief! It's THEIR OWN government enforcing these policies. In time the people of the US might be able to change the policies when they organize and kick out the offending politicians.

People in other countries should NOT be obligated to have their own countries looking out first for the US drug policies at the expense of their own sovereignty.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #14)

Thu Oct 10, 2013, 07:20 AM

15. It's hard for an empire not to dictate

Maybe there's a disconnect because reality tells us the USA has a population of 300+ million, ethe largest GDP in the world, the most powerful armed forces, and a population which has been raised to believe they are exceptional and have a duty to impose what they think is a Pax Americana. It doesn't really matter if they are mistaken (which they are most of the time), they will do what nations do when they are in similar circumstances.

This means accommodation makes eminent sense, and when they dictate its possible to ignore them but it sure doesn't make sense to brag about it. Take Chavez and Maduro, that regime is extremely weak, most of its friends are friendly because they like Venezuelan aid. They aren't true friends because Chavez' policies were so disjointed and quite often corrupt and dumb. For example recall that crazy idea he had, the Gran Gasoducto del Sur. that sure was dumb. That gas line was supposed to transport Venezuelan gas all the way to Argentina. Meanwhile Bolivian was being really hard nosed with Brazil to negotiate higher gas prices. Having a Venezuelan card to play gave the Brazilians the ability to hardball Bolivia. So guess what Chavez did to Morales with his cockamamie idea? I know Morales is kinda dumb, but his VP is a really smart guy and was incredibly pissed to see Chavez throw mud at his deal.

So where am I heading? Running foreign relations isn't all about mouthing off, paying off, or blathering about grandiose ideas and chatting about unity. And when it comes to dealing with the USA, it sure doesn't help to mouth off. In this case I think it's evident the NSA affair and the drug problem are USA inventions. It's their garbage exploding and staining everything they touch. But I don't think you will see Brazil change policies much. They shot across Obama's bows. But they won't go beyond. Why should they?

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Response to Socialistlemur (Reply #15)

Thu Oct 10, 2013, 09:50 AM

16. You are arguing "might makes right"

 

Against the poster Judi Lynn saying "The US should do right".

Your point may be somewhat accurate that "they will do what nations do when they are in similar circumstances." However Judi Lynn is correct in saying that the US should not be dictating to Latin America.

Americans should speak out against it even if just to temper a bit America's imperial ambitions.

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Response to Paolo123 (Reply #16)

Thu Oct 10, 2013, 06:39 PM

18. Hi, Paolo123. You can be sure if the US gov't hadn't tried so hard

to keep people from knowing what they were doing, at the expense of people in other countries, financed by the US American public through their taxes, without their knowledge, and against the will of many, there would have been far more people speaking out than there have been already.

The gov't has gone to great length to, as former Pres. Richard Nixon said, "make sure our hand doesn't show" so their fingerprints won't betray who did the evil things which have happened. Many US Americans only learn about these things 20 or more years later, and the rest NEVER know. Ignorant, and indifferent. They don't know, they don't care. Not as long as it doesn't inconvenience them!

So many are hoping all this will be transformed in the years to come.

Welcome to D.U., Paulo.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #18)

Fri Oct 11, 2013, 10:25 AM

20. Thanks

 

I'm legally an American now but I'm originally from Italy and have lived in many places. Nobody in America really understands just how terrible your news sources are.

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Response to Paolo123 (Reply #20)

Fri Oct 11, 2013, 09:56 PM

21. Don't hesitate to let us know.

There are so many of us who want to know what's being said and how it's being said, and what the truth is.

Unfortunately, as you know, not that many people seem to even be aware they have been given pure crap in place of real news. It makes those of us who started finding out about it really sick knowing how we have been deceived. It is infuriating, insulting, and horrifying.

What makes it worse is the awareness that the dumbest, most obnoxious US Americans who are belligerently proud of their country's history are ignorant it has been carefully created by the people in charge, with so little in it which is true.

I hope you have a few of these idiots in your country so you know how hideous they are, how loud, how stupid, how deluded. Wish we could take them all and put them on their own island with mechanical plants and animals they can't harm!

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #21)

Fri Oct 11, 2013, 11:45 PM

22. I actually live in the US now

 

And am an American citizen, but I was born in Italy and lived back and forth many years and with some time in Central America (which is why I am here).

It's almost hard to explain the difference in the media. It's just not so.... retarded.

What I mean by that is: There are many different slants on the news, but at least there is news and actual reporting. It's not all about Miley Cyrus or whatever.

As for obnoxious Americans. Of course I know them and I knew them in Italy. The truth though I think from the perspective of most Europeans is that the vast majority of Americans are very, very nice and pleasant people. When going to America they are extremely hospitable. But yes there is a small group that is obnoxious and gives the rest a bad name.

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Response to Paolo123 (Reply #22)

Sat Oct 12, 2013, 08:51 PM

23. Glad to learn you are spending time in the U.S.

There are some wonderful people here, no doubt about it.

It's the monsters who seem to be steering the ship, unfortunately. We need the time to arrive when more good people finally make the transition to the places of power. We're long past due for the country most people yearn to see.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #23)

Sun Oct 13, 2013, 11:06 AM

24. I agree 100%.

 

It's a strange thing to see. 80% of the population basically so kind and decent, with 100% of the government so cruel, corrupt, and blood-thirsty.

I think Syria was hopefully a turning point. The powers that be so wanted another war and the population basically said "no".

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Response to Paolo123 (Reply #16)

Sun Oct 13, 2013, 04:15 PM

25. It doesn't help much

I'm not an advocate of US imperialism. I'm just explaining the country behaves as it does due to human nature. Rather than criticizing in a broad fashion I'm suggesting that Americans do what they should do to live up to their lofty ideas about themselves, so they will have to go way up to a more than human status.

I think it's possible but I realize its asking a lot for millions of people who have been raised thinking they are "exceptional" to understand they are just like everybody else. Possibly this approach will give them the insight that to be truly exceptional they would have to learn to avoid so much use of violence.

I'm not worried about "telling people what to do". The problem arises when they think others are to do as they say or else. And of course the US doesn't listen, and it sure works hard to cover its tracks when it screws up.

I'll use an example I think may be less controversial: USA's war on drugs is a gigantic mess, Uruguay legalized marihuana and quite a few Americans think current federal law sucks. Maybe the USA could take a small step and follow Uruguay's lead. I think Obama is a fine dude, but the government is crawling with dinosaurs.

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Response to Socialistlemur (Reply #15)

Thu Oct 10, 2013, 06:32 PM

17. Latin American countries, in discussing common interests

are never "mouthing off," that stunningly clumsy, obnoxious American expression.

You are approaching the subject from the position of someone who assumes the US has the right to control any and every country it chooses to dominate.

You know that's not moral.

That's from the same school of thought that when a guy asks a woman to have dinner with him he has the right to roger her roundly, which of course is ridiculous.

Democrats don't agree with that at the personal or international level.

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Response to polly7 (Original post)

Sun Oct 13, 2013, 05:18 PM

26. K&R

tell it Polly

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