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Thu Mar 15, 2012, 09:49 PM

Cuba Catholic dissidents occupy church in Havana

14 March 2012 Last updated at 20:33 ET
Cuba Catholic dissidents occupy church in Havana

Thirteen Cuban dissidents have occupied a Catholic church in Havana, demanding an audience with Pope Benedict when he visits Cuba later this month.

The dissidents want the Pope to press Cuba's communist government on issues such as the release of political prisoners and an end to repression.

The Catholic Church in Cuba condemned the protest, saying places of worship should not be used for political demonstrations.

~snip~
Pope Benedict has not announced any plans to meet Cuban dissidents during his trip.

More:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-17376738

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Arrow 22 replies Author Time Post
Reply Cuba Catholic dissidents occupy church in Havana (Original post)
Judi Lynn Mar 2012 OP
Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2012 #1
Judi Lynn Mar 2012 #2
Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2012 #7
Zorro Mar 2012 #9
Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2012 #10
joshcryer Mar 2012 #14
Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2012 #16
joshcryer Mar 2012 #19
naaman fletcher Mar 2012 #17
joshcryer Mar 2012 #18
joshcryer Mar 2012 #11
dipsydoodle Mar 2012 #3
Judi Lynn Mar 2012 #4
naaman fletcher Mar 2012 #6
Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2012 #8
joshcryer Mar 2012 #12
joshcryer Mar 2012 #13
Judi Lynn Mar 2012 #20
joshcryer Mar 2012 #21
joshcryer Mar 2012 #15
Judi Lynn Mar 2012 #5
Bacchus4.0 Mar 2012 #22

Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Thu Mar 15, 2012, 09:55 PM

1. For all those who don't live and have never lived in Miami...

These people are paid by Miami Cuban-American Republicans and the CIA. Money changes hands, so by the time it gets over there, they're well able to buy in the black market.

It's been done for decades, and it continues on.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #1)

Thu Mar 15, 2012, 11:15 PM

2. The US Gov't used to be able to keep it all secret, but now the US Congress allocates $'s regularly

to them and their families, so they ARE paid employees of the U.S. Government, which they couldn't do, if they lived here, and Cuba paid them to do the same things. It's strictly illegal here.

Very shabby way for a government to act, isn't it? Sent an invasion, murdered Cubans, sponsored raids by terrorists over the years (terrorists who bragged that when the FBI caught them loaded with arms in boats, headed to Cuba, they just looked the other way) which was mentioned in a murder trial of a Cuban "exile," Eduardo Arocena, in New York City, who murdered a Cuban U.N. diplomat, Felix Garcia. Arocena testified to having delivered biological war chemicals to agents in Cuba for the C.I.A.

The law was set here long ago to prevent US citizens from behaving the same way, but our politicians seem proud of themselves for financing these clowns to create incidents which they can use to spin the illusion they have a very hard life there at the hands of "commies," and Cuba needs a good invasion again, and an overthrow, and all the power restored to the greedy, murderous scum or their descendants who ran the place before, and triggered the revolution.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 16, 2012, 09:56 PM

7. Exactly. Cuban dissidents are pure spin. They are paid employees of the US Govt

And that's what many Americans don't know. It's pretty well known in Miami, and the older Miami Cubans are in agreement with it. Cuban-Americans, particularly the younger ones, are beginning to have a different opinion.

And you're right. It is illegal here. However, apparently what's good for the goose is not good for the gander.

Every bit of dissident behavior in Cuba has been financed by the U.S. Govt.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #7)

Fri Mar 16, 2012, 10:16 PM

9. "Every bit of dissident behavior in Cuba has been financed by the U.S. Govt."

So all Cuban dissidents are financed by the US government?

That's quite a bold assertion. With a strong whiff of BS.

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Response to Zorro (Reply #9)

Fri Mar 16, 2012, 10:20 PM

10. Every bit of organized dissident behavior has been, yes

This is no secret in Miami, FL.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #10)

Sat Mar 17, 2012, 09:45 PM

14. Provide your evidence. These people are anti-embargo.

These people are pro-travel, pro-trade, etc.

There's a distinction between Cuban dissidents who want to "get paid" and those who just want what's right for their country.

It is wholly inadequate to claim that any "organized dissident behavior" has been paid by USAID or otherwise manipulated.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #14)

Sat Mar 17, 2012, 10:09 PM

16. I personally know people who traveled to the country to grease palms nt

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #16)

Sat Mar 17, 2012, 11:16 PM

19. So now it goes from US government and CIA to you know someone.

Let me tell you, a lot of Cuban dissidents have the dollar dangled from them, by the Cuban government itself, through the use of moles, and you know what?

They don't bite.

They know better.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #14)

Sat Mar 17, 2012, 11:00 PM

17. You are correct,

 

but I will say that this whole conversation is reason why the US should not pay anyone in Cuba, as the useless tools of the oppressors just use it as an excuse to tar all protestors with the same brush.

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Response to naaman fletcher (Reply #17)

Sat Mar 17, 2012, 11:15 PM

18. USAID to Cuba has pulled back dramatically because the dissidents don't want it.

It's used too often to slander dissidents. That's why the Varela Project was so pure, because it didn't have foreign money, it didn't have anything at all like that. Even the Cuban government couldn't pull slanders on the hero Oswaldo Payá (who deserves a Nobel). The Ladies in White were the first dissident group to show that they don't take US money and they're extremely cautious with what money that they'll take.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #1)

Sat Mar 17, 2012, 09:37 PM

11. This is factually untrue, these in particular take no money from outside government sources.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Fri Mar 16, 2012, 06:23 AM

3. Top Cuba dissidents unhappy with church occupiers.

HAVANA — The Ladies in White and other prominent Cuban dissidents said Thursday they disagreed with activists who occupied a Catholic church demanding that Pope Benedict XVI press Havana for political freedom.

Thirteen dissidents -- eight men and five women -- with the illegal Republican Party of Cuba (PRC), a previously unknown opposition group, were holed up since Tuesday at the Our Lady of Charity church in central Havana.

"The Ladies in White go to churches to pray and to be close to God," said Berta Soler with the leading opposition group, which represents the female relatives of jailed dissidents.

"We respect the actions of these people," said Soler, but made it it clear that it was not a tactic that her group follows.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gyvXJKrKniZcoBwi98JwQdPkCytw?docId=CNG.f31c542340413c26a62a1c4f4d21625a.a41

Odd that - I thought it would've been the "ladies in white" who as Sarah mentions above are on Miami's payroll. Maybe they're just miffed they didn't think of it first.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #3)

Fri Mar 16, 2012, 02:54 PM

4. Right! They weren't consulted, their names didn't get into the paper, they won't get paid for it.

I've heard there is dissention within the ranks. This is a great example.

Well, the leader (probably self-designated) of the "Ladies in White," Marta Beatriz Roque is going to have to haul ass to get their group back in the lead for stunts to grab some headlines.

Here she is, in the 2nd photo, with the US Head of the Interests Section in Havana, James Cason, looking in from the doorway.


What a sour beast. Her sister lives in Miami, where she could move, but no-o-o-o-o-o-o, she'd only be a small fish in a large pond there, living on NO income at all, unless she got a job.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #4)

Fri Mar 16, 2012, 05:47 PM

6. about the "sour beast"

 

Ignoring for a second your dehumanization of this woman, how exactly do you propose that she get to Miami?

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #4)

Fri Mar 16, 2012, 09:58 PM

8. Being on the payroll of the US Govt has been a way of life for quite a few Miami Cubans...

and it is for some on the island. And you're right. Once these "dissidents" have found their niche and get paid for it, no way you're going to get them to change. They do their job for the US Govt quite well.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #8)

Sat Mar 17, 2012, 09:39 PM

12. Show one piece of evidence that the Ladies in White are "on the payroll of the US government."

If they were they would be in jail.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #4)

Sat Mar 17, 2012, 09:44 PM

13. Why isn't Marta Beatriz Roque in jail if she is as you say?

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #13)

Sat Mar 17, 2012, 11:41 PM

20. Marta Beatriz Roque was released from prison some time ago due to what she claimed were health probs

It was covered by newspapers.

She was in prison due to the fact the person who had been acting as her personal secretary for 10 years was an agent of the government. She had the names of banks, dates, etc., etc., etc. going years back, and there was no way Marta was going to walk on that.

That was during the time they locked up lots of other "dissidents," too, if I'm not mistaken. There were two agents who had been working in the movement for years. The other was a man.

Not only that, but after she had been "sprung," the government released recordings of a phone call she made during which she was discussing payments to her from Santiago Alvarez, the man who also smuggled Luis Posada Carriles to the United States on his boat, the Santrina.

Here's an old article I just ran across a second ago, in a search for this post to you:

Cuba: US carried funds to opposition
By WILL WEISSERT – 30 minutes ago

HAVANA (AP) — Cuba on Monday accused America's top diplomat in the country of ferrying funds to dissidents on the island from a man it characterizes as a terrorist.

E-mails and other correspondence suggest U.S. Interests Section chief Michael Parmly was asked to carry cash from Miami to dissidents in Havana, Cuban authorities said. In one e-mail, activist Martha Beatriz Roque urged her nephew in Miami to give "letters" to Parmly. Cuban officials claim the word "letters" was code for cash, but they gave no proof money was involved.

Cuba said the funds came from the Miami-based Fundacion Rescate Juridica, headed by Santiago Alvarez, a Cuban-American businessman once convicted in the U.S. of conspiring to collect military-style weapons to overthrow Cuba's government.

Alvarez is currently serving a 10-month prison term for refusing to testify against Luis Posada Carriles, the alleged mastermind of bombings of a Cuban jetliner and hotels, and of assassination attempts on former President Fidel Castro.
More:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3316086

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #20)

Sat Mar 17, 2012, 11:47 PM

21. Yes, I'm well aware of her failure to avoid being prosecuted for expressing herself.

Why isn't she in jail now?

She and the Ladies in White have been very careful, very careful. They don't take money and they avoid any suspicious behavior because they can get easily jailed if it is, as you suggest, a conspiracy.

If they were involved in the stuff that is claimed, they would be in jail. This is uncontroversial.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #3)

Sat Mar 17, 2012, 09:49 PM

15. Shame, the Ladies in White have had passing association with suspect people...

...but there is no money being exchanged.

Cuban media likes to find pictures of various dissidents shaking hands, being next to, or meeting with people who they can then go on to slander.

But the Cuban dissidents are not stupid enough to take money which would result in a charge of sedition.

In fact, they tried to infiltrate the dissident movements with one of their own moles, but said mole was completely ignored, and then Cuba came out with this laughable documentary about how evil the and counter-revolutionary the dissidents were.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Fri Mar 16, 2012, 04:09 PM

5. Breaking news: Church-Ordered Raid Sparks Controversy in Cuba

Church-Ordered Raid Sparks Controversy in Cuba
By PAUL HAVEN Associated Press
HAVANA March 16, 2012 (AP)

A decision by Cuba's Roman Catholic cardinal to call police in to remove dissidents occupying a church has sparked an uncomfortable debate about the institution's role on this Communist-run island at the worst possible moment: just 10 days ahead of a high-profile visit by Pope Benedict XVI.

Cuban opposition leaders who had kept their distance from the 13 little-known protesters holed up in the Church of Charity since Tuesday nonetheless denounced the move by Cardinal Jaime Ortega to oust them, saying Friday it was a black mark for a church that ought to protect human and political rights.

The criticism was joined by human rights officials and some exiles, though others acknowledged the dissidents put church leaders in a tough spot. Religious experts noted the eviction of the occupiers was not unprecedented, with police called in just last month to remove protesters from a camp outside St. Paul's cathedral in London, and Occupy Wall Street protesters removed from a church in New York last year.

The 13 Cuban dissidents were removed from the church in Central Havana at 9:30 p.m. Thursday by some 60 unarmed officers, who took them to a nearby police station, fingerprinted them and issued a formal warning before sending them home. The church said in a statement that it had secured a promise from the government not to prosecute the dissidents for their action.

More:
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/church-ordered-raid-sparks-controversy-cuba-15937980

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sun Mar 18, 2012, 12:13 PM

22. Occupy Havana!!! n/t

u

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