Anyone know why commercial sites don't recommend Opera browser?

[dixiegrrrrl]

Since I have an old FF version, a lot of time when on a commercial site ( like Flickr just now) I will get a message that the site does not support my older Ff
then the site will recommend Chrome or Explorer 9 or newer version of FF or even Safari, but never Opera.

anyone know why that is?

[HopeHoops]

1. Sounds like the developers are IE loyalists who are insecure about other browsers.

The irony is that things will work in multiple versions of Firefox, Safari, and Opera (on Mac, Win, and Linux) but won't work in any version of IE because it still isn't compatible with standards that the others have adhered to for years. The associated CSS files are a major problem. M$ hasn't even come up to speed with CSS 2.0 and I don't think they intend to. Coding for IE alone is easier than coding for real browsers with exceptions for IE. Chrome doesn't even count as a browser - it's nothing but a shell for collecting data to sell to advertisers.

I try to avoid sites like that, but it isn't always possible. It's either lazy/inexperienced developers or pointy-haired bosses not giving enough time to seasoned developers. I always take the time anyway. As the late Commodore Grace Hopper said, "It is far easier to apologize than it is to get permission."

[dixiegrrrrl]

2. I am having a frustrating morning trying to upgrade FF in Ubuntu.

It downloads as a tar.bz file which does not automatically open
plus
I then have to remove the old Ff browser ( somehow, by some command) before I can install the new downloaded one..

I think I will just change to Opera, which managed to update itself into my Ubuntu with no problems.

[HopeHoops]

4. Weird. My mini runs Ubuntu and I haven't had that problem.

Try closing Firefox before running the update and you might need to reboot to get it to activate the update. I don't have to, but I might be on a different version of the OS.

On Edit: I use both Opera and Safari on the Mac - mostly to test web pages - and they're both damn good browsers. Firefox has a better selection of plug-ins and overall I find it to be faster, even on the Mac. You can have as many browsers installed as you want.

[hunter]

6. I stick with the official repositories.

Not always the latest Firefox, especially on older ubuntu versions, but it works, it's stable, and no need for manual updates or installs.

My main machine runs Debian thus my Firefox is Iceweasel. The browser I use most is Opera. I've added it to my "Software Sources" list so it's always up-to-date.

//deb.opera.com/opera/ stable non-free

You might also want to add the proper key so you don't get the "untrusted source" messages when it's updated.

http://deb.opera.com

There's similar tools for Firefox & Ubuntu --

http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ubuntuzilla/index.php?title=Main_Page

[hunter]

8. Chrome is google's commercial "shell" of chromium.

http://chromium.org/Home

The care and feeding of the Chromium open-source project is provided for by google, and you can install it by itself as an ordinary browser unburdened by google's intrusive googly eyes and gadgets.

[HopeHoops]

9. Agreed, but most people don't know that. They also don't read the license agreement.

Google Chrome isn't even shy about the fact that the browser exists for the single purpose of collecting data that they will sell to advertisers. Hell, the regular Google ads keep track of stuff - search on something and it appears in the ad the next time you open a page. I've played with that for my own purposes but haven't made much money from hits - Google does. It's passive income.

Chrome isn't even a good browser. It loads quickly but doesn't have much under the hood. I'll let Firefox take a few extra seconds just for the features. Load time is throttled by the connection more than it is by the browser (well, except for IE - it ALWAYS connects back to the M$ site even if there's no logical reason - just snoop the line).

[canetoad]

3. I think they simply forget about it

Which is a shame, as it's a good browser.

[bananas]

5. Job security for web monkeys.

Web designers use all the non-standard features of the major browsers, but Opera stays close to the standards, so they don't want to encourage people to use it.

[hunter]

7. You can make Opera identify itself as Firefox or IE to specified sites...

http://www.opera.com/support/kb/view/843/

I've run into sites that will refuse an O.S. identification of Linux too. These sites are either terrified by pirates, or they are pirates.

[dixiegrrrrl]

11. Interestingly, "edit site preferences" is greyed out in my Opera tools tab.

hmmmmmm

[TreasonousBastard]

12. So, do you know the difference between...

"Identify as Firefox" and "Mask as Firefox"?

I've noticed that on older Opera versions when I "identified" as IE some sites saw through that and sent me a nasty message. I have no idea what "mask" will do until I encounter that again.

[hunter]

13. It's the User Agent ID

http://www.microsystools.com/products/http-user-agent

I've been to sites that will not accept an IE version identification without the appropriate Windows OS version.

My usual User Agent ID: Opera/9.80 (X11; Linux i686; U; en) Presto/2.10.229 Version/11.61

"Identify as" gives me this: Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; X11; Linux i686; en) Opera 11.61

"Mask as" gives me this: Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 5.1; Trident/5.0; en)

"Identify as" still says I'm using Opera and Linux and proclaims it will happily accept MSIE 9.0 web pages

"Mask as" flat out lies about both the operating system and the browser.

But even then some sites will still complain when they don't Microsoft specific "features" in your browser, no matter how the browser identifies itself.

[TreasonousBastard]

14. Thanks, but I masked as IE, and...

Lotus Notes on a secure gummint site I often use for my job told me I had a bad browser.

Rats!

[hunter]

15. Internet Explorer: Land of hidden mysteries.

That's why so much of it is garbage under Wine. People can't figure out what the hell it's doing.

http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=25

People worry about Google, but Microsoft sold its soul to the devil a long time ago.

[got root]

10. In my experience as a web developer, we typically only focus on browsers that have a market share of

4% or more. Which is driven by the business end.

So, that is usually the only criteria I'm aware of for choosing to support one browser over another on public facing websites.

Otherwise, no one would care if IE didn't work correctly with standard code

However, Since I know that Opera is very good about supporting standards I do try to add support for her in my code, though I may not get around to testing it, with deadlines to be concerned about.