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Mon Nov 5, 2012, 11:47 AM

Wales child abuse: PM orders sex abuse inquiry probe

The prime minister is appointing a "senior independent figure" to look into the way allegations of sexual abuse at north Wales children's homes in the 1970s and '80s were dealt with.

Victim Steve Messham has said that the Waterhouse inquiry of 2000 only covered a fraction of the alleged assaults.

"Child abuse is an absolutely hateful and abhorrent crime," Mr Cameron said.

He also said Mr Messham would meet with the Welsh secretary, David Jones, on Tuesday.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20204687

Cameron orders investigation of child abuse claims.

(Reuters) - Prime Minister David Cameron ordered an investigation on Monday into the way claims of child abuse in Wales were examined after a victim said an unidentified Conservative Party figure had abused children in social care in the 1970s.

Speaking during a trade mission to the United Arab Emirates, Cameron said the allegations, aired by the BBC's flagship current affairs programme Newsnight, were so grave that they needed further investigation.

The unmasking of late BBC star presenter Jimmy Savile as one of Britain's most prolific sex offenders has prompted wider concern that some powerful paedophiles from the 1970s and 1980s may have used their influence to avoid punishment.

Steven Messham, one of hundreds of victims of sexual abuse at children's care homes in Wales over two decades, told the programme that he had been sexually abused by a prominent Conservative political figure and others in the late 1970s.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/11/05/uk-britain-abuse-cameron-idUKBRE8A40TH20121105

Under current circumstances I don't believe the public here would stand for either a whitewash or non publication of the findings.

30 replies, 3099 views

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Reply Wales child abuse: PM orders sex abuse inquiry probe (Original post)
dipsydoodle Nov 2012 OP
dipsydoodle Nov 2012 #1
LeftishBrit Nov 2012 #2
dipsydoodle Nov 2012 #3
T_i_B Nov 2012 #4
dipsydoodle Nov 2012 #5
muriel_volestrangler Nov 2012 #6
dipsydoodle Nov 2012 #7
fedsron2us Nov 2012 #9
The King of Prussia Nov 2012 #10
fedsron2us Nov 2012 #14
The King of Prussia Nov 2012 #24
muriel_volestrangler Nov 2012 #25
fedsron2us Nov 2012 #26
dipsydoodle Nov 2012 #27
fedsron2us Nov 2012 #29
muriel_volestrangler Nov 2012 #30
muriel_volestrangler Nov 2012 #11
fedsron2us Nov 2012 #15
fedsron2us Nov 2012 #16
muriel_volestrangler Nov 2012 #17
fedsron2us Nov 2012 #18
dipsydoodle Nov 2012 #19
muriel_volestrangler Nov 2012 #20
fedsron2us Nov 2012 #8
dipsydoodle Nov 2012 #12
muriel_volestrangler Nov 2012 #13
fedsron2us Nov 2012 #21
dipsydoodle Nov 2012 #22
fedsron2us Nov 2012 #23
fedsron2us Nov 2012 #28

Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Tue Nov 6, 2012, 05:36 AM

1. How Tory paedophile claims were covered up

>

The report, however, was never published and copies were pulped to ensure the local authority was able to maintain its insurance cover in what was described as one of the "worst cover ups" in the history of social care.

Amid growing public pressure, Mr Hague intervened. The judicial inquiry, led by Sir Ronald Waterhouse, heard evidence from more than 650 people who had been in care from 1974 and took three years to complete.

While the final report appeared exhaustive, however, it had several severe limitations. According to critics, its main scope was to examine abuse on care home premises, limiting investigations about abuse elsewhere.

Even more onerous, however, was an order made at the time of the original inquiry which banned the identification of 28 alleged abusers. They included a senior Conservative from the Thatcher era who allegedly abused one victim in a hotel room alongside eight other paedophiles.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9657036/How-Tory-paedophile-claims-were-covered-up.html

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Tue Nov 6, 2012, 07:05 AM

2. All child sex abuse is evil; but using vulnerable children in care as your victims is the lowest of

the low. And happens too often. I hope that these scandals will result in REAL reform to prevent such things EVER happening again!!!

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Response to LeftishBrit (Reply #2)

Tue Nov 6, 2012, 07:17 AM

3. I remain fascinated

that all of our media know exactly who's who on this subject but none have had the bottle to publish those names especially given some of the names are already all over the internet.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #3)

Tue Nov 6, 2012, 07:26 AM

4. What I'm waiting for....

....is one of the people being named online to start legal action against one or more of the bloggers and twitterers who are naming names. I'm sure some of the names mentioned might not be 100% accurate.

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Response to T_i_B (Reply #4)

Tue Nov 6, 2012, 07:35 AM

5. Broadly speaking

There's no smoke without fire.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Tue Nov 6, 2012, 02:18 PM

6. Channel 4 names Sir Peter Morrison

Exclusive: Eyewitness 'saw Thatcher aide take boys to abuse'

A former resident of the Wrexham care home at the centre of abuse allegations tells Channel 4 News that he saw evidence of abuse, and remembers seeing Sir Peter Morrison at the care home five times.

The former resident told Channel 4 News that although he did not recognise Sir Peter at the time, he later realised it was him.

Sir Peter, who died in 1995, was Margaret Thatcher's parliamentary private secretary and was at the heart of the Tory establishment during the 1980s. Recently, he has been publicly linked to abuse at the care home.

The former resident, who was not abused himself, said: "Going through some stuff recently and I saw his face. I know now he was the MP for Chester at the time. Morrison. Red, wavy hair. I recognised him straight away.

"I saw him at Bryn Estyn, he turned up in a car, boy went off in his car, don't know if he was in it. It was definitely his car, I saw him arrive in it then we went to bed and we saw it drive off.

http://www.channel4.com/news/exclusive-eyewitness-saw-thatcher-aide-take-boys-to-abuse


On edit: turns out the Daily Mail covered this, as reported by a Welsh Tory, a few days ago: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2224167/Former-Minister-says-Thatcher-aide-paedophile-preyed-boys-home--Hague-known.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

I'm surprised that didn't make a bigger splash. Or did I just miss it?

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #6)

Tue Nov 6, 2012, 02:34 PM

7. I should've guessed

they'd name the dead one.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #6)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 03:54 PM

9. It looks increasingly though Morrison may be the man in the frame

Last edited Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:53 PM - Edit history (7)

not the unfortunate member of the House of Lords whose name apparently was given to Stephen Meesham by North Wales police all those years ago when they showed him a picture of his abusers. One does wonder whether the scuffers were just being their usual incompetent selves or if some more sinister misdirection was taking place. Of course, we will never know for certain who the man in the pictures was because the photographs like so much of the evidence relating to the abuse of children in care in North Wales appears to have been conveniently destroyed

Morrison was Margaret Thatchers PPS, Deputy Chairman of the Tory party and Minster for energy. He also ran Thatchers Tory leadership campaign in 1990 so was quite a big wheel in his day

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Morrison

Channel 4 have been playing out of their boots on this game unlike the BBC who show an amazing ability to balls it up even when presented with an open goal. They appear to have been more interested in stirring the pot to direct attention away from their own failings in the Savile case rather than to get at the truth of child abuse by establishment figures.

They really have not done Messham many favours here

On edit

Ironically it was the Guardian who were one of the few newspapers who bothered to send a journalist to the original inquiry who have probably unpicked what happened here

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/nov/08/mistaken-identity-tory-abuse-claim

I can see that Waterhouse suspected that the evidence being given was mistaken identity based on the same surname and that the actual abuser was dead. It is a shame he did not clarify that point in his report rather than putting a blanket ban on the press publishing the information

Hats of to the Grauniad for showing some journalistic integrity here. Along with the blinder they played on Leveson they are at long last getting their act together after a poor couple of decades. No surprise that Nick Davies has been the man behind the coverage of both stories. The irony of 'Guardian Saves Tory Peers Reputation' should make the some of the rest of press the pause for thought.

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Response to fedsron2us (Reply #9)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 08:35 PM

10. Morrison

Last edited Mon Nov 12, 2012, 05:48 AM - Edit history (1)

Morrison was Deputy Chairman, not Deputy Leader. And didn't someone (Currie?) say a few days ago that he definitely wasn't the senoir tory in the frame? Having read all around this case I'm totally baffled as to where the truth lies. One thing that struck me though, one of the 4 names that have been whizzing round the internet is of someone who is a few years younger than Meesham.

Edit: it was Tom Watson who excluded Morrison from the allegations he made in Parliament, which seem to relate to something other than both North Wales and Jimmy Savile.

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Response to The King of Prussia (Reply #10)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:03 PM

14. Apologies I misread the wikipedia entry. It was Deputy Chairman

Morrison was very much a player in the early Thatcher years and remained a part of the PMs inner circle to then end

He gets name checked many times in Allan Clark's diary

Interestingly there is a cryptic entry in that book on page 212 from April 1988

Norman (Tebbit) was behind all the stories and leaks about Peter Morrison - 'whose career is now at an end'

Clark does not make clear what the 'stories' were and Morrison remained a minister until 1990 when he became her PPS just before she fell from power.

I suppose the key point to your second question is how organised was this child abuse activity and who else was involved

Nick Davies analysis of child abuse for the Guardian is deeply worrying as it shows how abusers managed to get control of some fairly senior positions in the child care world. For example, one does wonder how Peter Righton a founder of the Paedophile Information Exchange managed to become Director of Education at the prestigious National Institute of Social Work or Keith Laverack ever got the post running the Guardian Ad Litem panel for Cambridgeshire County Council

http://www.nickdavies.net/1998/04/01/the-sheer-scale-of-child-sexual-abuse-in-britain/

It will be interesting to see how Savile who seems to have been everywhere and photographed with everyone fits into this picture

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Response to fedsron2us (Reply #14)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 05:45 AM

24. If I were a journalist...

I'd see if Steve Meesham could pick out pictures of Peter Morrison and Jimmie McAlpine.
And if I were a high profile Tory paedophile I'd be highly delighted if at least two separate stories got conflated. It seems that Savile had a taste for girls of around about the age of consent and used his position to abuse them, which makes him a vile monster but not a paedophile. How handy for some other real villains if Savile gets blamed for every sort of abuse that went on in the 60s and 70s.

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Response to The King of Prussia (Reply #24)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 09:20 AM

25. Some of Savile's victims may have been as young as 10

But Savile's nephew, Guy Marsden, a roofer from Leeds, said: ''I don't want a penny of it. I don't deserve this money. I am ashamed of him and we now know he was a monster. His poison is still spreading and if genuine victims of his received some money, I think it could help them.''

Marsden, 59, has said that when he was a young teenager, Savile took him to ''paedophile parties'' in London where he believes children as young as 10 were abused by wealthy and, in some cases, well-known men.

http://www.theage.com.au/world/second-celebrity-arrested-in-savile-abuse-investigation-20121102-28pbi.html?skin=text-only


Jimmy Savile alleged to have abused girls as young as 13

If they're correct, he was a true paedophile.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #25)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 06:45 PM

26. I think the key question about Savile is whether he was just an opportunist

who abused victims at random when the chance arose or was he part of something more organised. His fame gave him a lot of access to youngsters both through his TV and Radio work but also in the childcare and health sector where he was a big charity fund raiser. The suspicion is that he may have been a procurer of children to be abused by others. There are also questions that he may have been linked to wider networks of abuse of Children in care homes as outlined by Nick Davies in this article.

http://www.nickdavies.net/1998/04/01/the-sheer-scale-of-child-sexual-abuse-in-britain/

Savile was described by his secretary of 32 years as leading a 'nomadic life' so he got about a lot and it may not be that easy to track his movements

It is 35 days since the Savile scandal broke. So far there have been 3 arrests, no charges and no convictions. 1 BBC DG has lost his job. The accused so far are one singing paedophile with form, one aging comic who as far as I can see was at worst a groper and Saviles old producer who later worked as a stringer for Richard Ingrams at Private Eye. It is hardly an impressive haul. One of the issues I think will be the fact that Savile himself seems to have enjoyed a lot of police 'protection' particularly in the north of England. The question is how far will the police assigned to the Savile affair be prepared to investigate the police.

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Response to fedsron2us (Reply #26)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 06:50 PM

27. I'd go with opportunist

Probably started when he was compering Rock 'n Roll shows back in the early sixties.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #27)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 08:34 AM

29. His modus operandi definitely fits the opportunist model

He does not seem to have spent much time 'grooming' his victims. However, his very lack of caution makes it even more puzzling as to how he avoided arrest over all those years. I suppose one point would be that for most of those who may have been assaulted it would have been a one off experience so many may have simply thought trying to prove their case by complaining was not worth the extra pain it would involve.I also suspect Savile had 'protection' at least at the lower levels of the local police forces where he lived which meant that a lot of the stuff simply got covered up or not recorded.

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Response to fedsron2us (Reply #29)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:49 PM

30. The man who did ITV's documentary thinks he did engineer it

Savile 'engineered' TV shows for child access

The investigator who exposed the Jimmy Savile abuse scandal has claimed the former BBC DJ "created his television series as a vehicle for his offending".

Mark Williams-Thomas believes programmes such as Top of the Pops and Jim'll Fix It were "engineered" to enable him to have access to children.
...
Former police detective and child protection expert Mr Williams-Thomas was behind ITV's Exposure documentary about Savile, which aired in October.
...
In an interview with the Radio Times, Mr Williams-Thomas said television formats such as Savile's Travels gave the presenter access to young people.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-20309286

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Response to fedsron2us (Reply #9)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 04:33 AM

11. Now it turns out the new BBC DG doesn't bother to follow the news about the BBC

Last edited Sat Nov 10, 2012, 05:44 AM - Edit history (1)

There's just been an incredible interview on 'Today' with George Entwhistle. In it, he said that he was unaware that Newsnight had broadcast the piece on Friday the 2nd unitl after it had gone out. This was despite it being a major news item in most of the media in the day leading up to it, and Michael Crick (ex-Newsnight, now Channel 4) saying the politician (who we now now to be McAlpine) was looking at a law suit: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/11/02/newsnight-senior-political-figure-paedophile_n_2064582.html

So, apparently, no-one in the organisation thought to tell him either about this 'explosive' new report on a subject about which one Newsnight editor had already 'stepped aside', and into which there was an inquiry; nor about the threatened legal case. And he's so out of touch he can go an entire day without hearing the news - about anything, it seems, because it was pretty prominent.

And Humphreys also asked him about the Guardian story on Friday the 9th, which was the first in the media to name McAlpine as the politician. And Entwhistle said he hadn't heard about that before McAlpine made his statement either, because he was giving a speech! Jesus, they published it on Thursday at 10:10pm. The Director General seems to be in a bubble designed to protect him from hearing about the BBC.

He'll have to resign, surely. After a month of "BBC in crisis" headlines, he's not actually paying attention to what the BBC is doing in the area of the crisis, or that the BBC is a top story in the news?

Link to the programme page: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01nsygl . The interview starts at the 90 minute mark.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #11)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:23 PM

15. I am afraid the Daily Mash article - 'Newsnight exposed as news molester'

is all too close to the truth

An investigation has revealed that BBC2′s flagship current affairs programme preys on vulnerable pieces of news, promising it will treat them well before totally ruining them.

A source said: “They trawl Britain for fresh stories and then fuck them up.

“They had this really good story about Jimmy Savile which was obviously true, but they just took it to some fancy place in London and stopped it from being on the telly.

“Then they interview this guy who claimed a bad Tory man did things to him, but at no point did they ask ‘are you absolutely sure about that?’ or ‘is this him?’.”

The source added: ”Nobody knows why they do it. Perhaps their brains are diseased.”

Another source said: “I accidentally walked in on an editorial meeting and they had this story in the middle of the table and they were doing the most idiotic, half-arsed things to it.

“I didn’t say anything because I was scared I’d end up being interviewed by Newsnight and they would turn it into a big pile of shite.”

Meanwhile, a BBC spokesman said it was still not clear whether Jeremy Paxman is the ringleader or a hapless stooge


http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/arts-entertainment/newsnight-exposed-as-news-molester-2012111048534?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+thedailymash+%28The+Daily+Mash.+It%27s+news+to+us.%29

Sometimes I wonder whether Entwhistle has been put in charge of the BBC just so he can destroy it.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #11)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 03:23 PM

16. I can not help feeling a bit sorry for Newsnight staffers

It appears they are damned if they are too cautious as in the case of the pulled Savile exposure and damned if they are too aggressive and run a story that attempts to expose child abuse involving senior political figures.

Worse their producers are constantly being replaced and they have a Director General who clearly can not be bothered to Google for breaking news stories

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/nov/10/bbc-newsnight-abuse-crisis-dimbleby

Moreover they have endure a torrent of hypocritical abuse from politicians and the rest of the media some of whom just want to see the BBC destroyed.

As for the government and MPs they can not seem to make up their mind whether they want child abuse, investigated, exposed or not. Instead, they keep changing their tune depending on which names are likely to go in the frame.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #17)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 07:40 AM

18. Tonights Program schedule on the BBC

The News - Government announces a huge increase in tractor production

Followed by

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Response to fedsron2us (Reply #18)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 07:51 AM

19. The famous interludes

I remember them well back in c. 1952.

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Response to fedsron2us (Reply #18)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 08:59 AM

20. And the new reliable, trusted Director General:

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:07 PM

8. The press are linking Savile with the Bryn Estyn and Bryn Alyn Children's Homes

At the moment the allegations look a little suspect to me
(ie they appear to have only emerged after Savile was exposed as a potential abuser). However, if this is confirmed then the government are going to have a very difficult task in keeping all the potential dirt under the carpet. I wonder if those politicians who only a couple of weeks ago were using Savile as weapon to attack the BBC are now wishing they had kept quiet.

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Response to fedsron2us (Reply #8)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 05:29 AM

12. Its quite possible that in this instance

Saville is being used as a smoke screen to help remove connections with politicians and boys - as opposed to girls. Certian issues with Saville seem to revolve around teenage girls some of whom may have been below the age of 16.

The other issue here is with respect to "boys" as the actual year which incidents may be subject to what the actual age of consent for male non heterosexual sex was at those points in time - was only reduced to 16 for boys in 2001.

See here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe#History_26

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #12)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 05:42 AM

13. I think most of the children's homes crimes were with boys under 16

and they were coerced; the change of age of consent won't make a difference, I think.

Savile came up first (in the past year, anyway); I can't see that is 'removing connections with politicians and boys'. The news about Savile has drawn attention back to the children's homes, which hadn't been in the news for years.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 12:40 PM

21. Tom Watson has evidence of a separate paedophile ring linked to the PM' office

unlinked to the North wales care home scandal. It links Peter Righton, the Paedophile Information Exchange, a ring of child abusers and a figure in the PMs office

http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/2012/11/response-to-rob-wilson-mp

The PIE is from the 1970s is at the heart of this scandal which may eventually implicate or involve people from all major British political parties

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/398728/20121026/tom-watson-pie-psedophile-information-exchange-peter.htm

This story is far from done yet

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Response to fedsron2us (Reply #21)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 01:18 PM

22. It seems to me

that some of the current events with a few token arrests are doing no more than cloud the issue.

There's one you missed out above : the early 1980's police enquiry into "rent boys" in the Piccadilly area the findings of which were suppressed as it was not considered to be in the public interest to publish the names involved nor were charges brought against at least two household names. At that time the age of consent with regards non hetrosexual sex for males was 21.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #22)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 05:07 PM

23. The term 'rent' and dilly' boy seems to have faded from the public parlance

Doubtless with the proposed restrictions on housing benefit for under 25s it will soon be all the rage again

http://thedabbler.co.uk/2011/09/the-slang-guide-to-london-piccadilly/

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 08:21 AM

28. Won't somebody think of the licence payers? plead abuse victims

Child abuse survivors have urged the public to not to forget BBC licence fee payers.

Roy Hobbs, who was systematically abused at a care home, expressed concern that media attention was being focused on victims like him, with too little emphasis on the need for better communication between BBC managerial tiers.

Hobbs said: “We are forgetting that we are dealing with a tragedy of human resources that stretches from one end of the BBC to the other. It’s affected millions of viewing experiences.

“If only everyone at the corporation knew who their line manager was and they had weekly structured feedback sessions.

“It’s easy to lose perspective though. I’ve been so engrossed by this whole BBC thing that I actually forgot I was abused.”...


http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/wont-somebody-think-of-the-licence-payers-plead-abuse-victims-2012111348731

Sometimes I think the Daily Mash is Britain's only real newspaper

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